(09-24-2020, 02:54 AM)Potato Wrote: "The Thanda impi males were  big males"

No guide ever said they are big neither in Manyeleti nor in Sabi Sands. 

",probably not the biggest of Manyeleti"

Tintswalo guide openly said that Avoca/Giraffe were much larger.

"Skorro was much bigger and taller than Sizanani"

It was actually the opposite Sizanani left, Skorro right:

*This image is copyright of its original author

(09-24-2020, 01:34 AM)Potato Wrote: The oldest Nharu litter is from November 2015. I can't say for sure from my memory, but I think there wasn't any significant age difference between Nharu litters and all Tumbela males should be born by the end of 2015 and so they are turning 5 years old soon. Thanda Impi haven't been big males and so I do not think those boys will be among largest lions around either. Also as already 4 years old they were easly chassed around by Red Road male so I do not think they will be beastly. They do not need to be tho as they got into region dominated by two single dominant males and so they shouldn't have any problem with taking over entire western sector soon.

(09-24-2020, 12:56 PM)Potato Wrote: " Blondie, the father of Sizanani, was the largest male in Sabi Sands"

Statement based on what exactly?

"These boys definitely had a stressful nomadic life as we can see from their manes that they aren't as developed as they could be"

Yes, that is one the think which guided me to statement that those boys won't be any size above avarage.

"But if they feed well and bulk up, they can undoubtedly become great specimen and a good coalition."

Similary as in humans case lions do not grow their whole life, but only at the years of youth. If the don't get enough food while their growth hormone is still working and they do not grow in that time, then they can not just make up for it later. 

"They don't need to be the biggest lions in Kruger, the Nharu of the Timbevati aren't the biggest lions of their reserve but they are good specimen and strong lions."

Indeed, that is why I do not understand some people feeling annoyed by my statement. There is nothink wrong that some lions are bigger than others, but even the opposite, as without diversity lion population would be boring. 

" why only talk of their paternal genes? Their mothers are the grandaughters of the Massive Skybed Males and daughter of the old Birmingham Males who were the largest Males of the Timbevati. They are also potential Nieces of the mighty Matimbas and sisters of the Birmingham Boys who are as of rn the largest Males in Sabi Sand according to rangers. So they have the genes."

Maybe, they have good genes, maybe they will be huge, but I myself do not believe it at all.

"Birmingham Boys who are as of rn the largest Males in Sabi Sand according to rangers."

Acording to rangers from Djuma Dark Mane Avoca is larger than the Birminghams.

"Regardless of if Thanda Imp males where big or not ( i dont think they where small, but neither the biggest), but thats pretty irrelevant, genes are transfered from mother size too, big fathers doesnt means big sons and vice versa.."

Yes 

"Avoca/Giraffe males where supposedly biggest lions around, and out of 5 his sons only Dark Mane is impressive in size, Blondie, Mohawk and 2 S. Avocas are quite average lions.."

Xikukutsus and Birmingham male are also really big, but of course you're right about that sons are not guaranteed to be the size of their fathers, they can be bigger than then, can be also smaller.

"Also, Red Road male, who we discuss few months ago is most likely sired by Scorro and not Avoca/Giraffe males, and he is the biggest male in Manyeleti and absolute beast.."

That Scorro sired Red Road male is just assumption based on photos he was in Ngala with some cubs. It doesn't mean at all that he was the only male which mate with Red Road's mother. Red Road could have been sired by the MAtimbas or Avoca/Giraffes as well.

"What size has to do with the fact that they where ousted by Red Road male from their pride? 99% males got ousted from their prides at that age.. "

The body size is important factor in lion vs lion encounter and I find starange that 5, 4 years old males were pushed around by single male and I think if Nharus would be big they wouldn't be pushed around. 

"I never said that they will be biggest as you claim, i just said that based on their bodies, will be quite big when they bulk up.."

You said:
"This boys will be beasts when they bulk up, very tall and long bodies it looks like.."

I do not agree with that statement at all.

"Also 6th Nharu i very tall lion by Tintswalo rangers words"

It doesn't mean his 5 brothers will be big as well. As you may notice Tintswalo ranger already couple of times said that 6th Nharu and 3 Mbiris are big youngsters, but never said such a think about 5 (now 3) Nharus. 

(09-24-2020, 12:56 PM)Potato Wrote: The body size is important factor in lion vs lion encounter and I find starange that 5, 4 years old males were pushed around by single male and I think if Nharus would be big they wouldn't be pushed around

(09-24-2020, 12:56 PM)Potato Wrote: I do not agree with that statement at all.

(09-24-2020, 12:56 PM)Potato Wrote: It doesn't mean his 5 brothers will be big as well. As you may notice Tintswalo ranger already couple of times said that 6th Nharu and 3 Mbiris are big youngsters, but never said such a think about 5 (now 3) Nharus. 

(09-24-2020, 03:04 PM)Potato Wrote: "It was literally stated at the time that Blondie was the biggest. They also said he was larger than the Mapogos and Mak was believed by almost everyone to be a massive lion at the time."


Stated by who?

"Regarding the Birminghams, the other day Nkorho stated that the Birminghams are the most impressive lions they saw and when a Nkorho guide saw one of the Four ways pirde Males, he said " What a massive lion, reminds me of when we had the Birmingham Boys around here". That kinda tells you they think the Birminghams were quite impressive lions."

I am not saying Birminghams are tiny as probably Nhenha is third or second largest lion around althrough Dark Mane is said by Djuma guides to be larger and therefore Birmingham are not the largest lions around. 

"Nsuku was believed to be largest of the Bboys in terms of bulk at the start and Nhenha and Mfumo became much larger than him after taking over."

Nsuku was the most dominant of the coalition when the took over for the first time. He never was considered the largest tho by any meassure. 

"These boys already look decently tall. They can now bulk up and grow their manes and muscle."

Which lion around doesn't look decently tall in the arena? Which males will be smaller than Nharus? Why you think Nharus will be over avarage so by the definition larger than most lions around?

(09-24-2020, 03:44 PM)Potato Wrote: "Thats false, size doesnt matter im that situation"

This is some sbsurd statement. Of course it matters a lot.

"yet confidence of the young males"

I am not saying body size is the only important factor. Confidance is probably more important, but also it is bound to certain extend with body size and coalition numbers. It is obviously way easier to be brave against smaller or numerically disadvantage opponent. Overall that single Red Road male easly chassed Nharus around leads me to assumption that they were much smaller than Red Road. Of course it is only assumption, not a proved, but it is still more to back up my statement that Nharus will be avarage or under avarage lionsthan you have to back up that they will be over avarage which is statement based on nothink.

" Also besides 1 scrap over carcass, i dont think it was reportwd that RRM chased them."

They were chassed around couple of times as far as I remember.

"By your logic then big coalitions of young males would never be ousted out of prides of they have bigger numbers or what"

As I said already above I am not saying that body size and coalition numbers are the only factors in lion warfare.

"Well i guess we disagree here, to me they dont look small compared to Othawa lioness, they are just skinny.. "

The think is how will they compare to other males in the arena.

"4 Mbiris left the pride too when Junior came in"

There wasn't any interactions between Orpen males and Mbiris +6th Nharu seen.

" Tintswalo wasnt making videos then, so info of them was very minimal.."

There wasn't videos by then althrough there still were regular reports from that arena. It can not be excuse at all.

(09-24-2020, 05:15 PM)Potato Wrote: I have no problem here. I just do not agree with what you stated

(09-24-2020, 05:15 PM)Potato Wrote: Like each lionesses is the same size lol

(09-24-2020, 06:00 PM)Potato Wrote: Here peak of hypocrisy from you. Beside that great most of lions by definition are avarage size so it is not me who have to prove that they are avarage, but you that they are not.