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+--- Thread: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project (/topic-asiatic-lion-reintroduction-project)
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Tshokwane - 12-30-2017
Easy @
As for you @
I'm not telling you to not participate, but for the love of God at least try to make yourself understandable.
I don't want to be repeating myself, thank you.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - paul cooper - 12-30-2017
(12-30-2017, 07:26 AM)Tshokwane Wrote: Easy @paul cooper, you know the mods are here to make people behave, so don't take it upon yourself. You can report things like this to the mods, we'll take care of it.
As for you @Garfield, I'm pretty certain we discussed with you the way you talk in the forum. We're trying to be serious and improve our knowledge, not to bro-everything to be cool.
I'm not telling you to not participate, but for the love of God at least try to make yourself understandable.
I don't want to be repeating myself, thank you.
That is starfox/counter strike making a fool out of himself. Its hilarious
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Rishi - 01-04-2018
(12-23-2017, 05:50 PM)parvez Wrote: Are asiatic lions from zoos too inbred or correctly bred? Some one please clarify.
Good point.
As per Studbook, the variety in the source population is very high, although that's mostly because the lions live in prides that can be tracked & monitored easily by foresters as most rejected/orphaned cubs are rescued to captivity life.
In light of a recent news report in UK...
Quote:London Zoo lion family so inbred that 2 of 3 cubs are dying...we can safely conclude that our captive lions' genetic variety is ok(ish).
December 2017
*This image is copyright of its original authorThe lions at London Zoo are part of a breeding programme in which 70 per cent of cubs are dying, a study has found.
- Pride are all descended from small group of 'founders' that shared the same grandparents.
- Lions at London Zoo are descended from 'founders' brought to Europe in the 90s
- London's lions are all part of the European Endangered breeding programme
- But the programme is being questioned with 70 per cent of cubs dying.
The lions are all descended from a very small number of ‘founders’ brought over to Europe in the 1990s.
But the ‘extremely high degree of genetic similarity’ of the founders’ offspring is ‘detrimental’ to their health, according to researchers.
The European Endangered breeding programme was set up to save the Asiatic lion in the mid-1990s.
The idea was to have a pool of pure Asiatic lions that could be reintroduced to India if the species became locally extinct.
Nine founder lions were brought to Europe, of which four went to London Zoo, while the rest went to Helsinki and Zurich zoos. And even these ‘founders’ were already highly related – with six of the lions sharing the same grandparents.
*This image is copyright of its original author
In December 2009 the EEP population of Asian lions had risen to 93 individuals across 34 zoos. But the study found 68.4 per cent of cubs from this family were dying at birth or shortly afterwards.
Some 57 lions were born between 2007 and 2009. Of these 39 died after birth, of which 35 died within 20 days, three within two months and one was euthanased at four years old.
The report in the journal Mammalian Biology said the breeding programme at the zoo was ‘not viable’ long term. There are currently four lions at London Zoo. Dr Paul O’Donoghue, one of the report’s authors, said the high number of deaths called into question the zoos’ lion conservation programme
The EEP lions are so closely related, the report said, that further matings were not advisable. It suggested new lions from India need to be added to the breeding programme to ensure the ‘long-term viability of the offspring’.
Malcolm Fitzpatrick, curator of mammals for ZSL (Zoological Society of London) said: ‘We welcome this study and the advancements in science that will assist in the conservation breeding of Asiatic lions and other endangered species in zoos throughout Europe and India.
The EEP lions are so closely related, the report said, that further matings were not advisable. It suggested new lions from India need to be added to the breeding programme to ensure the ‘long-term viability of the offspring’.
Malcolm Fitzpatrick, curator of mammals for ZSL (Zoological Society of London) said: ‘We welcome this study and the advancements in science that will assist in the conservation breeding of Asiatic lions and other endangered species in zoos throughout Europe and India.
‘It may also assist with management of isolated populations in the wild that themselves have limited genetic variability.’
In India most captive-born cubs survive, while our zoos don't even have that standard of maintainance & veterinary care as London zoo.
Still.. Gujrat's own zoo's try to hold on to the best specimens.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - parvez - 01-05-2018
Thanks for the effort @Rishi . That was very helpful. I propose to make these healthy population s survive in the wild and avoid their contact with inbred populations from gujarath and develop a healthy gene pool in the wild. That would be extremely effective.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Rishi - 02-11-2018
I'm trying to find more info on it right now...
IT'S (ALMOST) OFFICIAL NOW: TIGERS FOR KUNO
February 5, 2018
Lioness with her cub in Gir forest.
*This image is copyright of its original author
BHOPAL: For the first time in the 27-year tussle, Madhya Pradesh government has gone on record to allege that Gujarat government has made it a “prestige issue” not to shift Gir lions to Kuno despite a Supreme Court ruling.
Neither the chief minister nor senior forest officials have ever given any official statement on the stalemate in recent years. In fact, chief wildlife wardens of MP had stopped responding to media inquiries on the row between two BJP-ruled states.
At the 16th meeting of the MP state wildlife board, the stalemate was discussed at length and it was unanimously decided that tigers would be shifted to Kuno, given that Gujarat is not ready to share its lions.
The bombshell is tucked away in order number 1 of the minutes of the meeting: “Considering the fact that despite rehabilitation of people in 24 villages from Kuno around 20 years ago and notwithstanding the Supreme Court order of 2013, Gujarat was not ready to shift Gir lions making it their ‘prestige issue’, it would be better to shift dispersing tigers to that place. That'll help mitigate increasing man-animal conflicts in the state due to tigers expanding their range.”
This tiger cub was rescued from a dry well in MP.
*This image is copyright of its original author
But Wildlife activist Ajay Dubey, who has filed a contempt petition in Supreme Court demanding action against the Centre and Gujarat government for not implementing the SC order of April 2013, has questioned the MP government’s stand. He finds the order of the 16th meeting “highly objectionable”, and says: “When they accept that Gujarat has made it a prestige issue, why don’t they file a contempt petition in court? They could have, at least, supported my petition on the same cause in court. It’s a dubious stand. If it’s a prestige issue for Gujarat, why isn’t it for MP as well when they have done everything that was required — including shifting hundreds of poor villagers and taking away their livelihood?”
When shortage of prey base was cited as one of the major objections, the MP government had gone to the extent of declaring 700 sq km as a protected area to resolve the issue. After MP won the eight-year-long legal battle in 2013, Gujarat has been dilly-dallying on compliance, say MP officials. Madhya Pradesh went to the extent of suggesting that they were not averse to retaining the tag of ‘Gir’ or ‘Gujarat’ to identify the relocated lions at their new home in Kuno-Palpur.
The move for relocation of big cats, first mooted in 1991, had been hanging fire because Gujarat had refused to part with the majestic lions since that state holds the unique distinction of having the natural habitat of the only surviving Asiatic lions. While conservationists insisted that diversifying the lions’ habitat would ward off any natural, medical or man-made calamity that could wipe out the entire population, Gujarat treated the issue as a matter of pride and wanted to retain its unique status to continue to attract the substantial tourist inflow to Gir. After the Supreme Court finally resolved the issue in favour of relocation, Gujarat is left with little choice but to comply.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Rishi - 02-24-2018
The results of this census is going to play an important role in shaping the decision over the future of Kuno-Palpur landscape!
Kuno resonates with roar of several tigers
Feb, 10 2018
(Personal note: Right one seems like a female.)
*This image is copyright of its original author
GWALIOR: In the forest of Sheopur in MP, the work of counting wildlife is being done since last week. First phase of the census is going to be completed on Saturday. The team which is counting in the Kuno, also saw tiger's pugmarks in the Agra area. It is being said that the number of tigers is more than one in the forests of the district.
It is being told that tiger in Kuno were present in the area of Palpur from Veerpur. This may be a new tiger, which has got pugmarks in the Agra area.
Signs picked up by the census teams running the field operation in Kuno Sanctuary show that the number of panthers has also increased.
Because their pugmarks & scats are also being found in large numbers by the teams. In the previous census 4 years ago, the number of panthers in the district was stated to be around 45.
Presently their number is being estimated to have crossed 50.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Here that the first phase of the census is being carried out now, under which documentation forms are being filled, in which the number of animals which are available in the field, etc. are being written.
After the second phase of the operation, with the help of camera traps, GPS positioning etc. will be taken. Only after this will the current status of wildlife be clear. Although its report will come from Dehradun, where experts will calculate it, and after that the report will be released with all the corresponding data.
"It is true that the Agra side also has tiger pugmarks. But one just can not say anything about their numbers or whether they are resident animals or just dispersing males. That will only be known after camera-trapping process in completed & analysed, both here & in Ranthambore in Rajasthan. Its report are declared by WII experts after the complete calculations on a test basis. Only then can we know if Kuno has a viable tiger population or not."
Brijendra Shrivastav, DFO, Kuno-Vanandal-Sheopur.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Matias - 02-27-2018
In my opinion the Kuno Palpur reserve is too small for a translocation program, it does not have enough territory to manage a genetically healthy population in a self-sufficient manner. The existence or not of resident tigers is a minor fact, I do not think tigers are the major territorial limiters for lions. The population increase will tiger a territorial expansion disordered by areas and territories unfit for such predators. The population of Rajasthan does not have the tolerance of the people of Gujarat. When a group of lions is implanted in Kuno, all the life references of these lions are in Gir, they will continually search for "references" and not finding them will continue to search, breaking the boundaries of Kuno so fast as possible. I believe that Kuno-Palpur is, in essence, a great marketing project.
One fact in itself that also concerns me is the sentiment of the inhabitants of Gujarat State. After more than 100 years of unparalleled coexistence in any other part of the world, its values can reduce, within a long time process of deconstruction of values, implying the progressive loss of its "tolerance rate" of living with lions after the loss of his "great and sole pride". Although it seems anecdotal, it is an aspect that I think is very important; are factors that we can not measure today but we must bear in mind that the situation of Asian lions in Gujarat is very good, based on their exponential and territorial increase, as well as the "new people" who are building their lives in line with the lions and all the wildlife that now cohabit in this vast territory. Nothing better for your genetic health than this territorial breadth. A small translocated population does not imply greater genetic diversity. The people of Gujarat are the faithful custodians of the Asian lions, and as such I believe that every translocation of lions of their state has to be endorsed. There is no need, no urgency, no palpable threat, only the view that translocation is a desirable end. The possible use of captive lions by the Government of Rajasthan only reinforces my view that there is a huge commercial interest in this translocation. From the strictly conservationist point of view I would be more concerned with finding a "definite new home" a huge area as in the "Thar".
From the sensationalist point of view, watching lions and tigers in combat at Kuno - Palpur - Ranthambore would be priceless.Those who enjoy the facts narrated by the big coalitions in the great Sabi Sands would be high up, and obviously I would also be interested in this show, yet this is the preventive conservation of lions? This is what the State of Rajastan wants, to promote a unique show in nature and to garner all the benefits of this show. My view today is this, but only idiots do not change their minds, and so it is still possible to see this translocation with good eyes. Doubts will always exist! and I do not usually share narrow visions .... but to the present I see more problems than solution ..... and so we follow the next chapters.
One fact in itself that also concerns me is the sentiment of the inhabitants of Gujarat State. After more than 100 years of unparalleled coexistence in any other part of the world, its values can reduce, within a long time process of deconstruction of values, implying the progressive loss of its "tolerance rate" of living with lions after the loss of his "great and sole pride". Although it seems anecdotal, it is an aspect that I think is very important; are factors that we can not measure today but we must bear in mind that the situation of Asian lions in Gujarat is very good, based on their exponential and territorial increase, as well as the "new people" who are building their lives in line with the lions and all the wildlife that now cohabit in this vast territory. Nothing better for your genetic health than this territorial breadth. A small translocated population does not imply greater genetic diversity. The people of Gujarat are the faithful custodians of the Asian lions, and as such I believe that every translocation of lions of their state has to be endorsed. There is no need, no urgency, no palpable threat, only the view that translocation is a desirable end. The possible use of captive lions by the Government of Rajasthan only reinforces my view that there is a huge commercial interest in this translocation. From the strictly conservationist point of view I would be more concerned with finding a "definite new home" a huge area as in the "Thar".
From the sensationalist point of view, watching lions and tigers in combat at Kuno - Palpur - Ranthambore would be priceless.Those who enjoy the facts narrated by the big coalitions in the great Sabi Sands would be high up, and obviously I would also be interested in this show, yet this is the preventive conservation of lions? This is what the State of Rajastan wants, to promote a unique show in nature and to garner all the benefits of this show. My view today is this, but only idiots do not change their minds, and so it is still possible to see this translocation with good eyes. Doubts will always exist! and I do not usually share narrow visions .... but to the present I see more problems than solution ..... and so we follow the next chapters.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Rishi - 04-20-2018
(04-20-2018, 12:57 AM)Wolverine Wrote: Have you noticed that after Indian Supreme Court statement that part of the lions must be translocated to Kuno in Gujarat number of lions started to grow with irreristable power.... If assume that this numbers are true that mean that Kuno IS DOING ITS JOB even for now the project is unsucsesfull... Same as husband is telling to his wife: "If you dont do fitness and IF you become fat I'll find another girl..." "If you dont ptotect lions... than... is coming the big fat stick..." One additional reason to keep Kuno in the future as potential option and to make Gujaratis more entusiastic to protect their lions @Rishi
Actually, there has been some more developments lately...
There has been two petitions filed in Supreme Court last month.
One (by Ajay Dubey, wildlife activist) requesting the SC takes ation against Gujarat and Union governments for not implementing the apex court’s order for lion translocation passed in April 2013.
Another (by Wildlife Conservation Trust, Rajkot based NGO) pointing out the flaws in the plan & how it should be aborted for both tigers' & lions' sake. Don't know its hearing has been done or not...
Under the Union minister of forest and environment, a 12-member committee, formed according to the apex court’s order of April 2013, met in mid-March and the minutes, yet undisclosed, have been placed before the court.
However, WCT's petition had submitted that Gujarat has tried to put forward several arguments before the expert committee, but the committee which was bound by directions given in the judgement, was not willing to hear any arguments against translocation!
Two 9-member subcommittees have also been formed in each of the states, haeded by the respective Principal Chief Conservator of Forest (PCCF) & representation from the other state party to the translocation, Union government and Wildlife Insitute of India.
Their goal is “to ensure that all concerns of the Gujarat government are amicably resolved and lion translocation can take place without hindrance & help ensure direct involvement and regular monitoring of translocation by both the states ."
Yadvendradev Jhala of the WII said, “We have received the letter from Gujarat government to appoint a representative on the committee. The committee mandate is to ensure translocation of the lions.”
When all key issues raised by Gujarat are addressed to the state’s satisfaction, the two sub-committees will submit their report to the main committee and lion translocation should begin.
Meanwhile in Kuno...
*This image is copyright of its original author
I'll keep you guys updated.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Wolverine - 04-20-2018
there is a need of green light from Sri Narendra Modi, respected Prime Minister of India and The true Leader of the Bharateya nation, otherwise nothing will change, @Rishi , but he has to take into account the people's opinions of his own province.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Rishi - 05-24-2018
(05-23-2018, 11:17 PM)Pantherinae Wrote: Is there any noteworthy progress with the relocation of lions.
I'm personally a bit unsure about the two biggest cats sharing a Reserve, I don't say they can't at least in the past, but when there's limited space and surrounded by the urban jungle, I find it hard to see it not turning into a full out war between them!
It's like with the cheetah and lion relationship in Africa, its been going fine for hundreds of years, but when they are forced closer together the lion has become the number 1 threat for cheetahs. I'm not comparing the tiger with a cheetah, but it shows limited space will change things quite a bit.
Alone I think the lions would struggle, but they come in prides and coalitions that might be ugly for the tiger and the lions breed like rabbits, but for Indian tourism it would be absolutely fantastic to have these two species sharing the Reserve, but would the sharing last?
Hard to say I would love to see it, but I'm also fearful that one species would wipe out the other.
Latest news (read above) is from March that the grievances are being worked out, with smooth translocation as the goal. I currently have no info on how successfully that has been going though!
Although there is no intention to initiate such "sharing" anytime soon, status of tigers might play a vital role...
Kuno probably has tigers now & with field-work for on going tiger census already done in Kuno Palpur (see ^#322), maybe they are gonna look into the report. If it does have resident tigers, that might be a HUGE pickle for the lion relocation (great news for tigers though). Otherwise random young & inexperienced transient males won't be a threat to the prides.
On the other hand, if tiger presence is confirmed in Dangs forest of Gujarat (see #1,280) then that might create the possibility for MP to exchange tigers for more lions, which would be good for both Dang's tiger & Kuno's lion population!
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Wolverine - 07-27-2018
@Rishi , watch carefully how Russians are teaching young captive Persian leopards how to hunt because Iranians don't give them in sufficient quantity:
Same could be done by MP authorities with captive Asiatic lions if Gujarat continues to display stubbornness...finally it will get a middle finger... Maybe the First Minister of Madhya Pradesh has to see this video or we can give them the official website of Centre for re-introduction of Persian leopards close to Sochi, he has to contact them:
https://caucasusnature.ru/about.php
You see that tree beautiful Russian ladies on the bottom - the left one is the director of that organization. Why you don't write a letter to MP First minister? Soon humans will be able to teach captive cats how to hunt.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Rishi - 07-27-2018
(07-27-2018, 11:33 AM)Wolverine Wrote: @Rishi , watch carefully how Russians are teaching young captive Persian leopards how to hunt because Iranians don't give them in sufficient quantity:
Same could be done by MP authorities with captive Asiatic lions if Gujarat continues to display stubbornness...finally it will get a middle finger... Maybe the First Minister of Madhya Pradesh has to see this video or we can give them the official website of Centre for re-introduction of Persian leopards close to Sochi, he has to contact them:
https://caucasusnature.ru/about.php
You see that tree beautiful Russian ladies on the bottom - the left one is the director of that organization. Why you don't write a letter to MP First minister? Soon humans will be able to teach captive cats how to hunt.
Maybe someday it'll ultimately come to that. It has been under consideration (#314).
"The contempt petition was filed in the SC which was heard in March this year and the government said that a committee meeting will be held in a week’s time based on which the SC did not take any further action. It is three months since the SC hearing but till now there is no indication of any progress.”
-Ravi Chellam, Conservation Scientist
Wildlife activist Ajay Shankar Dubey, who filled contempt petition in March, plans to file another one.
Now the Gujarat government is keen on moving lions to newer sanctuaries within the state from human dominated revenue lands after several lion harrassment debacles. (Source)
“We are considering the translocation of lions but within the state. We have already identified new alternative sanctuaries; one in Porbandar called the Barda Sanctuary and one near Rajkot named Rampura Sanctuary. As of now we are building a prey base for lions in these sanctuaries. Once we have enough game to go around for the lions, the wild cats will be moved out.”
-Dushyant Vasavda, Chief Conservator of Forests.
Read THIS article from this July. It has the details on the latest situation.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Wolverine - 07-27-2018
Russians have the expertise and 8 years experience in introducing of captive leopards into wild. They have invested a lot of money in that facility close to Sochi since the project has the support of Putin. They already succesfully introduced 2-3 cats. That of course is not too much but more are coming.
Maybe after some time I will try to write to MP authorities to connect with the Russians for experise but better to try somebody with fluent Hindi …. as you...
Barda sanctuary is not bad option, the problem is that there are a lot of people need to be relocated and Gujarati authorities are not world famous with their relocation abilities.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Rishi - 09-06-2018
Lion translocation still stuck in red-tape!
Even after the Supreme Court mandated committees have met, Gujarat stays adamant to Kuno-Palpur be declared a National Park & more area be added to its core, a time consuming process.
Gujarat's officers simply blamed MP authorities for not following the guidelines to pave the way for the lions’ translocation saying, “There is a delay on the part of the MP government to notify a portion of the sanctuary as national park."
MP forest officers are of the view that it is a ruse to keep the translocation in abeyance. “IUCN only suggests measures for translocation, but it is the Wildlife Institute of India (WII) which monitors relocation,” said an MP forest officer, "and WII has certified Kuno Palpur sanctuary as fit to be the second home for Asiatic lions from Gir."
The MP government had already spent ₹90 crore for relocation of 24 villages located in the sanctuary’s core area, development of prey base, and other infrastructure. It's now a perfect inviolate habitat just lying around...
At present, Kuno Palpur Sanctuary is spread over 345 km² of area and it's been proposed to add another 413 sq km area into it.
The proposal has been sent by wildlife wing of Forest Department for Kuno Palpur Wildlife Sanctuary to extend its limits by another from present 975 km². to a total 1,288 km².
That will make Kuno-Palpur fit to stake claim for national park status fulfilling the biggest condition laid down by Gujarat government for transfer of its Asiatic Lions.
*This image is copyright of its original author
T-38 of Ranthambore is still regularly sighted there & expected to have permanently settled somewhere between Kuno-Palpur & Ranthambore, with probably other tigers there as well. There's been atleast half a dozen sightings this year.
Even the recently disappeared of 4-year-old T-77 "may have moved to Kuno-Palpur forest area in Madhya Pradesh since it's territory is close to Chambal river," said G.V.Reddy, Chief Wildlife Warden of Rajasthan.
That makes the situation even more complicated. Once National Park is declared they'll probably raise that issue too.
Sources:
http://www.asianage.com/india/all-india/300718/
http://thehitavada.com/Encyc/2018/8/28/Kuno-Palpur-Sanctuary.aspx
https://m.patrika.com/sheopur-news/ranthambour-tiger-in-sheopur-jungle/
https://www.deccanherald.com/national/Ranthambore-tiger-goes-missing-689903.html
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Rishi - 10-05-2018
Gujarat to set up two new parks for lions
- Gujarat had earlier submitted before the Supreme Court as one of the reasons it did not want to part with the lions, “Current Asiatic lion population is not a single population confined to one place. It consists of 'metapopulations' spread over several locations within the Greater Gir Region”. Metapopulations maybe geographically separate but have interactions and an exchange of individuals.
*This image is copyright of its original author
- Asiatic lion expert and member of the National Board for Wildlife (NBW) H S Singh said , “It is high time that the big cats get an alternative home. I suggest it should be wiser if second habitat is in Gujarat.”
- After the recent lion deaths, with experts advising for a geographically separate population of Asiatic lions to be created, Minister of State for Forest Raman Patkar said:
"We have decided to create a new park near the upcoming 'Statue of Unity' in Rajpipla town of Narmada district and shift some lions there. Government is also mulling over to set up another safari near Ahmedabad."
- In addition, is been decided to fast-track the shifting of lions to Barda Wildlife Sanctuary. The people residing near Barda Dungar in the western side of the Gir Sanctuary will be relocated elsewhere in a bid to provide a permanent habitat to lions, said the minister.
- “We are in the process of finalising the notification of Kuno as a National Park. Only last month, we had a meeting with the Gujarat state committee. They insisted on a number of studies before the relocation. The WII is trying to resolve that issue,” said Manoj Kumar Sapra, Principal Chief Conservator of Forests, Madhya Pradesh.
Although unnamed environment official was quoted, “We are hopeful that the lion project will materialise soon. Finding faults or blaming the parties for the delay may not be the right approach if we want to make progress", there's doesn't seem to be much progress.
- Bhopal-based RTI activist Ajay Dubey, whose contempt petition in the SC was disposed of in March this year after the Centre had assured of action in the matter, plans to file another contempt petition in the SC within a day or two, since since no substantial progress has taken place.
https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/next-steps-at-gir.ece
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/66061967.cms?
https://ahmedabadmirror.com/news/india/2-safari-parks-to-house-gir-lions.cms
https://indianexpress.com/article/india/supreme-court-gir-asiatic-lions-5387343/