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+--- Thread: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project (/topic-asiatic-lion-reintroduction-project)
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - brotherbear - 12-02-2014
At what point in time would you say the lion first came to live in India ?
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Pckts - 12-02-2014
I get how this is confusing, cause a Sumatran tiger is smaller and weaker than a Bengal Tiger so would the same argument hold true?
I'm not sure, since they are technically a different sub species while the asiatic lion is genetically Identical to the African lion its a little different. I also hold the fact that sumatrans are the largest predatory cat in their habitat which means they are the most successful but the Asiatic Lion is not the largest cat which means they are capable of reaching larger sizes if they were more successful, IMO.
If that clears it up from my perspective
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - chaos - 12-02-2014
You obviously overlooked one very significant dynamic. Near extinction - Inbreeding has brought the Indian lion population
to its current standard. I believe this factor overrides any environmental element in the current situation. Smaller, weaker,
generally sickly looking specimens when compared to their African counterparts. They've been around India more than long
enough to adapt to the terrain, and if the current gene pool wasn't so drastically diluted - thanks to mankind - I suspect their
prowess; physically speaking, would be much better, don't you agree?
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Pckts - 12-02-2014
(12-02-2014, 12:08 AM)'brotherbear' Wrote: At what point in time would you say the lion first came to live in India ?Its very hard to say, At what point would I say they became habituated to India?
I dont know, maybe during the time of christ. I assume it takes many generations to become habituated. Its only one theory, its a highly debated idea.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Pckts - 12-02-2014
(12-02-2014, 12:13 AM)'chaos' Wrote: You obviously overlooked one very significant dynamic. Near extinction - Inbreeding has brought the Indian lion population
to its current standard. I believe this factor overrides any environmental element in the current situation. Smaller, weaker,
generally sickly looking specimens when compared to their African counterparts. They've been around India more than long
enough to adapt to the terrain, and if the current gene pool wasn't so drastically diluted - thanks to mankind - I suspect their
prowess; physically speaking, would be much better, don't you agree?
Inbreeding is one factor, which also supports the idea that they were foreign intruders and their shallow genetics already had a step down because they started from a few african specimens. But there is enough specimens that if they were capable of reaching larger sizes, they would, right? And Tigers were/are near extinction as well, but they continue to reach prime conditions.
I think the real tell, tell, is the inability to successfully have prides and the smaller manes. The reason being, lions are pack hunters, thats how they are most successful. But being that the jungle doesn't allow many grazing creatures to congregate in large company, the pride doesn't serve a purpose. They are adapted to savannah living, the doc last night that was called "future cat" was very enlightening on what each cat is capable of surviving in and what they need to be their best version of themselves.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - TheLioness - 12-02-2014
(12-02-2014, 12:13 AM)'chaos' Wrote: You obviously overlooked one very significant dynamic. Near extinction - Inbreeding has brought the Indian lion population
to its current standard. I believe this factor overrides any environmental element in the current situation. Smaller, weaker,
generally sickly looking specimens when compared to their African counterparts. They've been around India more than long
enough to adapt to the terrain, and if the current gene pool wasn't so drastically diluted - thanks to mankind - I suspect their
prowess; physically speaking, would be much better, don't you agree?
Very well put my friend. [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - chaos - 12-02-2014
~~ think the real tell, tell, is the inability to successful have prides and the smaller manes. The reason being, lions are pack hunters, thats how they are most successful. But being that the jungle doesn't allow many grazing creatures to congregate in large company, the pride doesn't serve a purpose.
That would directlty reflect their adaptation to the Indian terrain.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Pckts - 12-02-2014
(12-02-2014, 12:32 AM)'chaos' Wrote: ~~ think the real tell, tell, is the inability to successful have prides and the smaller manes. The reason being, lions are pack hunters, thats how they are most successful. But being that the jungle doesn't allow many grazing creatures to congregate in large company, the pride doesn't serve a purpose.It also directly shows that they are smaller which is because they are not as succesful in that habitat.
That would directlty reflect their adaptation to the Indian terrain.
I never said they didn't adapt, I said they are less successful. Which is why they are shells of what they are truley capable of.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - chaos - 12-02-2014
I diasgree, overhunting and inibreeding is the sole reason for the sad state they are in. Centuries ago, before they were slaughtered
to near extinction, they thrived throughout Asia and Europe. Look at whats happened to the Siberian tiger. No longer do they attain
such large size. Very similiar situation to the Indian lion. Overhunting and limited genepool. There ya have it.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Pckts - 12-02-2014
Can you show a single specimen from any era that matches up with the Specimens in Africa?
All Asiatic Lion weights I have seen show them to be in the 160kg range. They are smaller in body length and height as well, I believe.
All verified Siberian Tiger weights match up perfectly to what they were during earlier years.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - tigerluver - 12-02-2014
Could someone elaborate on the modern lion's historical range, such as fossil evidence or texts? Last I remember Guate found a website about an alleged fossilized lion femur of average size in Israel, @GuateGojira, could you post that either here or in the extinct felids thread, please? There was no info or better angles for analysis of what that really was, albeit.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - GuateGojira - 12-02-2014
Here is the link with many data gathered by me, about the Cave "lion":
http://animalbattle.yuku.com/topic/36/The-Eurasian-Cave-lion-morphology-and-evolution?page=1#.VH1rgskXK7U
I have more information now, but for the moment, this is really usefull.
Greetings. [img]images/smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Amnon242 - 12-02-2014
(12-02-2014, 01:02 AM)Pckts Wrote:(12-02-2014, 12:32 AM)'chaos' Wrote: ~~ think the real tell, tell, is the inability to successful have prides and the smaller manes. The reason being, lions are pack hunters, thats how they are most successful. But being that the jungle doesn't allow many grazing creatures to congregate in large company, the pride doesn't serve a purpose.It also directly shows that they are smaller which is because they are not as succesful in that habitat.
That would directlty reflect their adaptation to the Indian terrain.
I never said they didn't adapt, I said they are less successful. Which is why they are shells of what they are truley capable of.
Asiatic lions are somewhat smaller than east/south africans. They are about the size of west african lions. Are west african lions also less successful? East african lions are smaller than south africans, are east african lions less successful than south african lions?
As we know lion size is corelated to prey size. In india they probably hunt smaller prey than in africa. But they doesn´t mean that they are not successful. They are adopted to indian enviroment - including somewhat smaller size. Sumatran tigers are also smaller than bengal tigres...
Tiger/lion interaction: adult male bengal tiger is perhaps too much for a single lion, but male lion could kill a tigress or subadult male. Also gang of female lions could kill a tiger (tigress, subadult male).
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - chaos - 12-02-2014
Well put Amnon. Also, the fact Indian lions were so widely hunted, and hunters always kill the largest, healthiest
quarry they can, many large prime lions were deprived the opportunity to pass their genes. This can only have a
negative impact on future generations.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Amnon242 - 12-02-2014
I think it would be interesting to reintroduce asiatic lions to Iran or Turkey. As far as I know animal conservation is quite good in those countries and I think there is some room for lions over there. But that will of course never happen, because India will never translocate lions to another country...