(05-10-2017, 09:15 AM)Rishi Wrote:

(05-10-2017, 08:31 AM)Pckts Wrote: Spoke with my guide on the subject, ranthambhore is like Tadoba in landscape but even more hilly, gir is open, dry and has little to no tree cover, much like the African terrain, I have major doubt that you can find suitable habitat for both in one place. Also, every park I went to has "open plains" or meadows but they're surrounded by dense forest and prey isn't andundent there like in Africa, no way it would support pride life and they'd still need to travel through the dense forest in search of prey, I see no way for both to coexist in the same territory unless one adapts the others way of life depending on where it is.
Just my 2 cents after seeing it first hand, I'll be able to go into more detail once I'm home.

That's odd, where was that guide from??!!!
I've been to both Ranthambore & Gir as a teenager..They look EXACTLY same, with lot of flora overlap!!!
Actually Ranth has some grasslands, where there used to be villages & farms, but Gir has bushy scrublands..The hills are mostly barren.

Just Gir's vegetation consists of more dry forest species like acacia & teak (Ranth has more dry desiduous like babool, neem & dhok) & doesn't have those thickly wooded patches that Ranth does.
Both the other sanctuaries Girnar & Barda are thickly forested..Barda a bit less.
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I agree on the point that they won't coexist as i can't really imagine such a scenario, but territoial tensions should still remain...as both parties' most common habitat would be a similar woodland-grassland mozaic.

(05-10-2017, 09:55 AM)Pckts Wrote: He's been to Ranth but is going to gir/Ranth in June but he's well connected and knows many who've been to both. He's a resident of pune and has been going to reserves all his life so he's pretty well known but like I was saying. About Kahna/pench/Tadoba, they are forests first and foremost. Not a chance that a pride of lions thrives there or even a coalition of males, they'd make a ton of noise and being lions, they'd be easy to spot and gypsies would pester them constantly. You don't see tigers until you hear a call and even then it's rare, you may know where one was spotted the other day and go back there and get lucky but again, very rare. Tigers are so elusive it's frustrating, you have to get extremely lucky to spot one, no matter the reserve. There is no guarantee.

(05-10-2017, 10:52 AM)Pckts Wrote: He will be, he was very interested in it. Most guides and naturalists use group WhatsApp to know the most up to date sightings and in which zone or reserve. That being said, there's no better source of info than a guide or driver, a naturalist is 2nd to them. Guides and drivers are locals and they spend every day in the reserves, naturalists will go when they have clients but guides & drivers are always there.

(05-11-2017, 07:23 PM)Jimmy Wrote: Hmmmmm @Rishi there seems to be some areas for dispersal for both these cats then, but buffer zones are tricky- they are mostly used only as part of the main territory, i know lions in Gir are a differnent story but where poachers are rife, buffers are best used as a fleeting temporary shelters. So all in all there should be atleast around a hundred lions to make it a feasible translocation but as much as i like it -the two biggest cats living in the same territory, it will test both cats being so equal in terms of power and at the apex of the food chain. And like @Pckts said i also think basically these two cats require two different habitat types with some negligible overlaps, the question is would that area be enough to contain breading population of both cats in the long run?
..i hv no idea iam in the wait and see mode right now.

1. They have both coexisted there for ages & don't need us to oversee them. Our duty is to right the wrongs we did, as much as possible.
2. Both share the same niche & have similar effect on their respective biomes.
3. I tried to visualise scenarios..but didn't really find any reason for tigers to affect a lion-pride in a way different from how a larger nomadic male might do, & vice-versa.
4. Personally i BELIEVE that, even though our lions "make do" in Greater Gir's forested tracts & our tigers in WITL's barren wastelands... Once they come in contact, they will push each other to their classic habitats, where they hold the advantage over the other.
   

(05-13-2017, 03:02 AM)brotherbear Wrote: From post #1... http://www.indiawest.com/blogs/article_79d646fe-e4f5-11e3-ae76-001a4bcf887a.html  
 
Tiger-Lion Conflict Looms Large in Kuno-Ranthambore 
I believe that they will seldom have any trouble if they have enough territory to roam. Both cats require lots of acreage for hunting. Is there enough land free of human habitat for both lions and tigers? 

(05-13-2017, 03:02 AM)brotherbear Wrote: From post #1... http://www.indiawest.com/blogs/article_79d646fe-e4f5-11e3-ae76-001a4bcf887a.html  
 
Tiger-Lion Conflict Looms Large in Kuno-Ranthambore 
I believe that they will seldom have any trouble if they have enough territory to roam. Both cats require lots of acreage for hunting. Is there enough land free of human habitat for both lions and tigers? 

(05-13-2017, 05:25 AM)Garfield Wrote: Ok I just read the paper, I mean what the hey!!  Who is this Chavda guy, is like he going to put the breaks on this thing?  This was also 2014 paper, has anything changed since then.  I can understand with these bros worries, they think the lion will attack the tigers and decrease their population, yeah but they are forgetting tigers are fast runners, you can see it on youtube, when da lions winning they turn tail.  So I mean like, they may not have to worry these wildlife ppl, the tigers may survive.  But the lions will probably gain supremacy yeah, but it don't mean the tigers will have to die, at least not all of em.  So this is annoying, I mean these cats should be aloud to live in the same place, that's where they all were born, hey didn't the lion originate like in India before Africa anyways.  I gut like a lot of India people walking around my apartment complex honestly I should ask them.  Someone should talk to that Chavad guy and tell him hey man whats up, why you doin this, these lions gut a live to bro.  Seriously what up with dis, and if Rishi is right I mean that's enough land fo both to live, if there fights its only natural, just like say a leopard bro havin to battle some lions or tigers.  I mean what are we doin babying nature, dat not legit, that's fake.  We removed the lions by killin em off stupidly, time to put those bros back where they belong, tigers and all.  Straight up!

(05-13-2017, 08:18 AM)Jimmy Wrote:  Although, i feel upset with the Guzarat state's refusal, i can totally see the concern and caution taken by the authorities regarding this matter cause this is entirely new case for all scientists and experts. Nobody wants to be blamed and nobody knows precisely what to expect, like- Is Kuno a tiger's-first choice habitat or a lion's-first choice habitat and will it allow for a big pride to form for defence etc etc. During the starting phase it will likely go smoothly with plenty of space and prey but it will get intense as their numbers rise and during the dispersal process of young individuals when they will encounter another apex species and vice versa.

(05-13-2017, 09:37 AM)Rishi Wrote:

(05-13-2017, 08:18 AM)Jimmy Wrote:  Although, i feel upset with the Guzarat state's refusal, i can totally see the concern and caution taken by the authorities regarding this matter cause this is entirely new case for all scientists and experts. Nobody wants to be blamed and nobody knows precisely what to expect, like- Is Kuno a tiger's-first choice habitat or a lion's-first choice habitat and will it allow for a big pride to form for defence etc etc. During the starting phase it will likely go smoothly with plenty of space and prey but it will get intense as their numbers rise and during the dispersal process of young individuals when they will encounter another apex species and vice versa.

That statement might not be very true...Also the Indian records of natural history, suggest the dominance of lions was restricted from the Northwestern open river valleys to the western desert & adjoining arid lands...Mostly Punjab & Western UP. It never reached (or, as per another school of thought, were pushed back from) further south towards Vindhyas.


The kingdom of Kota, today's North western forest complex, was the only place where they coexisted..looks pretty successfully.
WESTERN Indian colloqial languages can't even differentiate well between the two...Both are called "Sher" & the Goddess can be depicted on either.

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Moving on to more proper accounts.
Here's an old parchment from a king's journal...

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Lavish Royal "hunts" by the Princes & the Ladies.

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IF YOU HAVEN'T NOTICED, A LOT OF THE TIGERS WERE IN PAIRS.. ACTUALLY ALMOST IN ALL POTRAYALS. BEHAVIORAL ADAPTATION??!!!