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+--- Thread: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project (/topic-asiatic-lion-reintroduction-project)
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Shardul - 10-29-2016
(10-22-2016, 12:29 PM)Wolverine Wrote: I suggest participants and readers in this forum from United States and Canada who love lions could write letter to US and Canadian governments and propose imposing of economic and financial sanctions on Indian state of Gujarat and imposing ban on visits of some Gujarati politicians in Western countries due to irresponsible and shameful position of Gujarati authorities concerning translocation and saving of endangered Asiatic lions.
Pipe dream.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Matias - 12-27-2016
[quote pid='6541' dateline='1417278859']
By reading a part of this topic, there are many questions about certain reintroduction / relocation practices. Let me tell you about a fact:
It is very important to know the conservation history of the lions in the Gir reserve. From the previous protection situation imposed by the father Nawab and his son in the early twentieth century, to the whole situation after this official protection. The Maldharis people have 100 years of coexistence after this protection. It is a long history filled with positive and negative facts of living with these lions to this day, whose tolerance, respect and willingness to share space and livelihood with them, has many aspects to be salutary. The Maldharis raise cattle to live on their dairy products, they do not feed on meat. The enormous time of coexistence has already established criteria of symbiosis between humans / lions. It is a long story that everyone in this forum should study. And after all this process is easy to understand why? That the people of Gujarat do not want to share "their" lions with anyone else. It is a very important tourist recipe fruit of much sacrifice to the present day in which the lions are seen as a natural heritage of Gujarat. "No one protected them but us from Gujarat." Today lions are scattered about 2 million hectares beyond the protected area, live to wander in areas "without formal conservation status" rich in wildlife and death of people by lions occur at a rate of 1 to 3 per year, Where in most cases, lions are not victims of retaliation. It's not the lions fault. The behavior of the people before the lions find no parameter anywhere in the world. The great majority of the people of Gujarat have taken on the responsibility of living and sheltering all these lions.
As for the conservation criteria, I have no doubt that for lions, living only in this area is a danger to their conservation.
As for the reintroduction of the lions in North Africa, I remember two projects in Morocco, in a properly fenced area. Project headed by Professor Nobuyuki Yamaguchi, abandoned for lack of funds and solid environmental criteria.
Any reintroduction program for lions, whether in Turkey, Iran or Iraq, will take place in a properly fenced area. Looking primarily to build a suitable habitat, to establish a group of lions in that area. And this is how it is done ... how to establish and manage a metapopulation of lions ... There are so many problems that we should focus on protecting the lions where today they are strongly threatened, such as: The WAP complex (Niger, Burkina Faso And Benin), Niokolo Koba (Senegal) and Kaiji Lake (Nigeria) which are the only places where lions still live in West Africa. Or the lions living in Cameroon in a contiguous population (Faro, Benoué and Bouba Ndjida), the last lions living in the Democratic Republic of Congo. The unknown situation of lions in the Central African Republic and South Sudan. Concentrating efforts where they are still is the greatest conservation drive !?
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RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Vinay - 12-28-2016
Not possible.
Reintroduction of Gir Lions outside Gujarat (neighboring state) is not possible for another 15-20 years just forget about outside India transfer.
If some countries (Middle east and north Africa!! ... lol) wants wild lions in their lands why cant they import wild West/Africa lions instead? Many African nations legally allow hunting(trophy) so importing them is not a big problem. btw There is not much difference b/w Africa and Asiatic lions so they would survive there easily.
My suggestion: Before importing Wild Lions and Tigers try 3 times smaller Leopards then we can think about them.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Polar - 12-28-2016
There is some difference (ecological differences, mainly) between sub-Saharan lions and Asiatic lions.
For one, the latter uniquely lives in more closed areas (jungles, tree-populated plains, waterways): the former lives in open areas with the exception of some Congo lions. This would be troublesome for most African lions moving into the more closed environments like their Asian counterparts.
Two, African lions can't form as big of a pride in their counterparts' environments. Most prey are less dispersed (and mainly domestic), so less cooperation is needed.
The Introduction of African lions to the Indian landscape would bring some psychological/environmental changes to their way of life.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Pckts - 01-10-2017
Wildlife of india
Why translocating Asiatic lions from Gujarat to Madhya Pradesh is a disastrous idea-- Firstspot India
Priyvrat Gadhvi Aug 10, 2016 19:44 IST
#Animal rights #Asiatic lions #Genetic evidence of tiger population structure #Kuno Palpur #lion-tiger conflict #migration of animals #Tigers #Wildlife in India
Jahangir, the Mughal emperor, was a prolific hunter, one who hunted far and wide. His memoir – Tuzuk-i-Jahangiri – meticulously accounts his exploits between the age 12 and 50. Out of the total 17,167 hunted, 3203 were quadrupeds of all kinds – tigers, antelope, swamp deer, cheetahs, bears etc.
One prominent animal conspicuously absent from this record is the lion.
Jahangir’s hunting expeditions were just an example. Similar records of accomplishments of all royal and aristocratic families before and after him, with the distinct addition of the British, show that lion was far less hunted than the tiger in the vast swathes of forest that India was home to. In addition to the unrestrained hunting and habitat loss, did other factors such as competition with tigers for the same prey and territory accelerate its demise? We will come back to this.
Now in 2012, scientists from the Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology (CCMB), Hyderabad published a landmark research paper titled ‘Genetic evidence of tiger population structure and migration within an isolated and fragmented landscape in northwest India’. The research established a healthy dispersal and migration of tigers between Ranthambore tiger reserve in Rajasthan to Kuno-Palpur and Madhav national park in Madhya Pradesh. The research is significant also for the lions in India, for it establishes the credentials of the argument against the proposed translocation of lions from Gir in Gujarat to Kuno-Palpur.
Forest corridors are critical for the long-term survival of wild species, enabling their dispersal and migration and upholding their genetic robustness.
It is critical for tigers of Ranthambore to migrate and remain connected with the central Indian tiger landscape. Their only way is southeast via the Khandar range and Keladevi sanctuary, across the Chambal river into Kuno-Palpur (only a few KM away), and via Kuno-Palpur into Madhav National park (MNP) and further still, towards the Panna and Bandhavgarh tiger reserves.
Consider these few extracts from the CCMB research paper:
“We could determine significant gene flow between RTR and MNP”.
“We have ascertained tiger presence in Kuno-Palpur wildlife sanctuary and Madhav national park, and established their genetic connectivity with the animals of Ranthambore tiger reserve”.
“Such dispersal and subsequent reproduction are crucial for the maintenance of long-term genetic health in small fragmented populations”.
“These forests are extremely important to national conservation strategies”.
The corridor of Kuno-Palpur is a veritable jugular vein for the tigers of Ranthambore. The diagram below demonstrates the proximity of the two reserves.Can a lion and a tiger co-exist in the same habitat competing for territory, prey, dominance? Has a scientific and historical analysis of this aspect ever been made? Will there be a conflict? The MP government has nonchalantly shrugged off this concern, and that is where the danger lies.
Ecologically speaking, both tigers and lions are migrants into Indian forests.
The lions arrived in India much earlier than the tiger, i.e. about 20,000-30,000 years ago. They were found in northern, western and central India.
The tiger arrived into India approximately 12,000 years ago from the north and northeastern Asia.
Having evolved to be apex predators both are naturally designed for dominance and hence conflict would be inevitable in case of overlapping habitat.
Those who dismiss this concern, point out that lions kill other lions all the time, same with tigers, how then is a lion-tiger conflict going to be any different, they ask. What is overlooked is that in this inexhaustible cycle of nature, elimination is followed by procreation – ensuring propagation of dominant genes, while in the case of a tiger-lion conflict, no procreation would follow – a disruption of the natural cycle.
It is not as if no evidence exists to give legitimacy to this concern.
In 1955, the widely-respected journal of the Bombay Natural History Society carried an article in its Vol 53, titled “Experiments in implanting African Lions into Madhya Bharat” wherein disastrous results of an effort by the Maharaja of Gwalior to introduce lions into tiger territory were produced. The experiment was a total failure – an important observation was of lions being killed by tigers. Later, the author of the article, Kesri Singh, in a book opined that tigers had a role to play in the disappearance of the lion in India, being direct competitors
Several noted authors have also opined likewise, vis-à-vis lion-tiger conflict: Richard Perry in The World of the Tiger, 1965, Jack Denton Scott in Speaking Wildly, 1966, Franklin Russell in The Hunting Animal, 1983 Kenneth Anderson in The Call of the Man-Eater, 1961.
There is much additional rationale in opposing the move, including its lelegality.
The Supreme Court ordered that the translocation must be strictly in accordance with IUCN guidelines. It might be falling short of several, such as
Guideline 1: There should generally be strong evidence that the threat(s) that caused any previous extinction have been correctly identified and removed or sufficiently reduced
Problem: The entire RTR-KPWLS-MNP landscape is a hostile human matrix – poaching, high prevalence of licensed and unlicensed firearms, fragmented forest corridors due to encroachments, rampant illegal sand and stone mining. Hence, threats such as habitat loss and killings that caused the previous extinction are still clearly present. The tiger-lion conflict issue compounds the threat.
Guideline 2: Where a high degree of uncertainty remains or it is not possible to assess reliably that a conservation introduction presents low risks, it should not proceed, and alternative conservation solutions should be sought.
Problem: A high degree of uncertainty does remain – viz the conflict with tigers compounded by concerns of inadequate prey-base, a hostile human matrix, uncertainty over the migration of lions and their acceptability once population expands etc.
Guideline 3: Human communities in or around a release area will have legitimate interests in any translocation. These interests will be varied, and attitude of the community can be extreme and contradictory. Consequently, translocation planning should accommodate the socioeconomic circumstances, community attitude, and values.
Problem: While MP has done a fine job of relocating villages from within Kuno-Palpur sanctuary, has anyone talked to or sensitised the population on the Rajasthan side, which has a smattering of hundreds of villages, which would have lions right in their backyard? Irate villagers around the Khandar range often confront hapless forest officials when tigers venture into their farms or villages, has anyone asked their opinion about having lions within a few kilometers in a few years? No.
Guideline 4: There is a risk of hybridisation with closely-related species or subspecies; this may possibly result in a lower fitness of offspring and/or loss of species integrity. This should be included in risk assessment
Problem: This is especially pertinent given the presence of tigers, and is also related to the potential of conflict. Has any study been made of lion-tiger conflict or competition in the same habitat? No.
The move does not sit in consonance with these and many other guidelines. Now, how can an order in violation of its own mandate get implemented?
This translocation might be more flagrantly violative of IUCN guidelines than any other.
Notwithstanding this, and Gujarat’s genuine reservations regarding the insufficiency of total area of the Kuno-Palpur sanctuary, inadequacy of prey-base, prevalence of firearms, poaching, a highly hostile human matrix that surrounds the Kuno landscape or India’s infancy in the expertise required in handling re-introduction of endangered species, if translocation does go ahead, as with all ecological disasters, the damage would only appear in the long term.
The Supreme Court has not been made fully aware of the importance of Kuno-Palpur as a migration corridor for tigers and the threat of lion-tiger conflict.
I am not against a second home for Asiatic Lions per se, although they seem to have already made a third, fourth and fifth home in Savarkundla, Palitana, Mahua, Girnar etc. By all means pursue it, in a feasible place, but not Kuno-Palpur. Because sandwiching lions between tigers would endanger both.
The author is a biotechnologist and member of State Board for Wildlife, Gujarat
MORE IN INDIA
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Matias - 01-20-2017
Congratulations on the post Pckts
It is indisputable the need for the Government of India to find a second home for its lions. Reintroduced / relocated lions will wander out of the territory determined for them, regardless of territorial size. Man / lion conflicts will be commonplace and routine. It is a recipe doomed to failure. As Indian reserves and protected areas are small the only solution initially feasible is to transfer the lions to a fenced reserve. As the "Indian model of conservation" does not conceive of this idea, even in the reserves that in functional terms behave like an island, surrounded by settlements and human activities, without possibility of connection with any other, without any possibility of expansion, becomes very difficult Feasibility of a translocation.
Although the Supreme Court has decided to relocate, many obstacles have been created. What previously seemed to be a reluctance of the state of Gujarat before the loss of tourist revenue lion, today, gained contours of difficult solution. Without a well-structured lion conservation project in another part of India this transfer should not be feasible.
I believe it will take many years for lions to be effectively relocated to any other reservation, and even longer to be reintroduced anywhere else outside of India.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Bronco - 01-20-2017
My two cents!
Due to the Delhi-Mumbai industrial corridor & also high speed bullet trains thar are expected to operate on this route, Gujarat & Rajasthan will be cut off from other tiger reserves, I feel Ranthambore tigers should be relocated to Satpura or Kuno & now Gir lions can be relocated in Ranthambore & Sariska.
We can have a corridor between Ranth & Gir.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Apollo - 01-20-2017
MP's Kuno ready for lions, says Centre; Gujarat opposes
Madhya Pradesh's Palpur-Kuno Wildlife Sanctuary may soon become a second home for Asiatic lions as majority members of a central team have favoured their translocation from Gujarat's Gir. The recent development has brought a ray of hope for the Madhya Pradesh government and wildlife lovers who have been awaiting the shifting of the lions after a Supreme Court judgement in this regard in April 2013.
This matter was discussed during a meeting of the expert committee, headed by an Additional Director General of Forests under the Ministry of Environment, Forests and Climate Change, on translocation of Asiatic lions from Gir National Park to Kuno sanctuary. "Kuno has achieved amazing recovery of the habitat and is practically ready for translocation of lions," as per 'points of discussion' with the expert committee.
Various studies, including the one by Dehradun-based Wildlife Institute of India (WII), have been conducted to assess the suitability of Kuno to accommodate the lions. "All members of the expert committee, except (the representative of) the Gujarat Forest Department (GFD), were of the opinion that these studies may continue in parallel to the process of translocation of lions. But the GFD has recorded its objection to this proposal," it said.
The Madhya Pradesh Forest Department will complete the process of declaring Kuno as a 'national park' by the end of next month, reads the discussion points, a copy of which was received in response to an RTI query filed by wildlife activist Ajay Dubey. Dubey has also filed a contempt petition in the apex court, seeking implementation of its 2013 order. In a project report to the Environment Ministry, WII has said lion reintroduction in the Kuno sanctuary would not wait for the completion of an ongoing study since the institute's earlier ecological assessment had already validated the potential of that area to support about 40 lions.
The Madhya Pradesh government has been seeking transfer of Asiatic lions from Gujarat to its Palpur-Kuno sanctuary. The reintroduction plan of lions has faced stiff opposition from Gujarat. In April 2013, the Supreme Court had ordered shifting of some lions to Kuno. The apex court had directed the Environment Ministry to shift them by October, 2013. However, not a single lion has been shifted so far. Palpur-Kuno Wildlife Sanctuary in Sheopur district of Gwalior division has been chosen as a second home for over 500 Asiatic lions.
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/591577/mps-kuno-ready-lions-says.html
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Pckts - 01-20-2017
Instead of trying to catch up, the gov't should get a head start. They need to protect the corridors that the lions are using right now, they're already dispersing so why not protect their path to new territories now and let whatever happens occur naturally. It does them no good to worry about lion tiger conflict since this will be a natural occurrence, nature will find a balance.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Shardul - 01-20-2017
(01-20-2017, 10:50 AM)Bronco Wrote: My two cents!Ranthambhore and Gir are a 1000 kms apart. How do you propose we build a corridor that long passing through cities, villages and deserts? Not to mention the logistical nightmare of translocating and monitoring 40 odd tigers that are in ranthambhore.
Due to the Delhi-Mumbai industrial corridor & also high speed bullet trains thar are expected to operate on this route, Gujarat & Rajasthan will be cut off from other tiger reserves, I feel Ranthambore tigers should be relocated to Satpura or Kuno & now Gir lions can be relocated in Ranthambore & Sariska.
We can have a corridor between Ranth & Gir.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Bronco - 01-21-2017
for an economy the size of India, tiger relocation shouldn't be a problem, nor there's dearth of man power, but no one is thinking on these lines yet.
if we have difficulties connecting Gir & Ranth than human assisted migration is the only option left.
No matter what you do this entire Asiatic lion reintroduction thing is just beating a dead horse.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Wolverine - 01-29-2017
(01-21-2017, 10:11 AM)Bronco Wrote: No matter what you do this entire Asiatic lion reintroduction thing is just beating a dead horse.
I suggest the only option left is Government of Madhya Pradesh to send special forces under cover with secret mission to catch and still night time a dozen of Gir lions from those idiots and bring them in MP.... I am not sure is this a joke or not... Actually such kind of secret mission probably will not violate federal laws, the government of Gujarat is the one violating federal laws by not following the verdict of Indian Supreme Court.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Rishi - 01-29-2017
The purpose of lion translocation was to create independent populations & that can be served without taking them out of the state..for the time being.
*This image is copyright of its original author
The state of Gujrat has multiple sites like Kutchh, forests of Aravalli foothills & Narmada Basin, Wastelands West of Bhuj etc. that can (probably did) house lions & should be favoured over far-off/controversial Kuno.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Wolverine - 01-30-2017
(01-29-2017, 09:18 PM)Rishi Wrote: Although old news, this seems to be the best option right now..
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Lions not in, Madhya Pradesh moves to populate Kuno with tigers
BHOPAL Updated: Feb 25, 2016 19:02 IST
*This image is copyright of its original author
Neeraj Santoshi
Hindustan Times
*This image is copyright of its original authorJavadekar said the entire programme of translocating Gir lions to MP will take 25 years to complete.(File photo)
The Madhya Pradesh government is considering introducing tigers in the Kuno-Palpur wildlife sanctuary instead of waiting for the Gujarat government to translocate lions, says a note on the website of the state forest department.
The note in the sub-link titled “Special Conservation Initiatives” said: “If the stalemate is not resolved expeditiously, the state (government) may have to consider introducing tigers in the sanctuary as wasting such a prime a habitat is not in the interest of conservation of wildlife in the state…”.
“The government of Madhya Pradesh is very keen to have the lions at the earliest as the state has done everything expected from it, including the relocation of 1,545 poor families, to help conserve this national heritage…”, the note said.
In December last year, the union ministry of forest and environment cleared its stand on the state’s demand to translocate lions from the Gir National Park in Gujarat to the Kuno-Palpur Wildlife Sanctuary.
In a written reply in the Lok Sabha, Union forest and environment minister Prakash Javadekar said translocation of lions from Gujarat to Madhya Pradesh was a “long-term action” and will take more than 25 years.
The note points out that though the state government has asked the Centre to transfer a pride of lions from Gujarat at the earliest, “the government of Gujarat is somehow not inclined to provide the animals for starting the lion population in Kuno and the Centre is now seriously considering the option of using zoo bred animals of certified Asiatic lineage to start the new lion population…”
Narendra Kumar, principal chief conservator of forests, said the suggestion to introduce tigers in Kuno-Palpur came from the National Tiger Conservation Authority after a team visited the sanctuary to study prey base.
On the Centre’s argument that the re-introduction project will take 25 years, Kumar said: “We can’t wait for such a long time. The habitat has been readied for a carnivore and we will have to do something there. However, the government is yet to discuss about the NTCA suggestion.”
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The purpose of lion translocation was to create independent populations & that can be served without taking them out of the state..for the time being.
*This image is copyright of its original author
The state of Gujrat has multiple sites like Kutchh, forests of Aravalli foothills & Narmada Basin, Wastelands West of Bhuj etc. that can (probably did) house lions & should be favoured over far-off/ controversial Kuno.
"The Madhya Pradesh government is considering introducing tigers in the Kuno-Palpur wildlife sanctuary instead of waiting for the Gujarat government to translocate lions"
- that would be a grave mistake and fulfilment of all dreams of Gujaratis, that's what they exactly want and wish to happen.
“The government of Madhya Pradesh has done everything expected from it, including the relocation of 1,545 poor families, to help conserve this national heritage…”
- 1545 families probably mean around 10 to 15 thousand people whish is a huge effort. For comparison government of Gujarat is incapable to
relocate even a 2500 people from Gir forest... They talk about "success and merit in lion conservation" but their "success" is based only to the fact that lions and their derivates thanks of God are not used in Chinese medicine and Chinese pharmacy and as a result poaching pressure on lion is insignificant with comparison to tiger poaching.
I have to confess that despite of my great love to India and her great people I start to fill some form of "Gujarato-phobia" and probably same is happening with many lion lovers through the world.
RE: Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project - Vinay - 01-30-2017
(01-30-2017, 08:59 AM)Wolverine Wrote: They talk about "success and merit in lion conservation" but their "success" is based only to the fact that lions and their derivates thanks of God are not used in Chinese medicine and Chinese pharmacy and as a result poaching pressure on lion is insignificant with comparison to tiger poaching.
I have to confess that despite of my great love to India and her great people I start to fill some form of "Gujarato-phobia" and probably same is happening with many lion lovers through the world.
Chinese are using Lion bones too in medicines..
https://forcechange.com/64275/protest-the-use-of-lion-bones-in-chinese-medicine
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/apr/16/south-africa-lion-bones-trade
http://www.care2.com/causes/as-tigers-go-extinct-chinese-medicine-switches-to-lions.html
Daily, On average 100+ each Elephants and Rhinos are killed in Africa for body parts....... Media/World reaction 'Meh'
Many Lions,Leopards,Buffalo and so on killed by Game-Hunters (Westerns) ..................Media/World reaction 'Meh'
All African Wild animals population is decreasing every passing year ............................Media/World reaction 'Meh'
Few Elephants trained in India...... Asiatic Lions not transferred to MP ........................Media/World reaction 'Sparta'
Even though all wild animals population from last three decades (in census by numbers) is increasing in India still we get more negative publicity than African counter-parts.
Of-course i want to see Asiatic Lions in MP and rest of India too but that is just not possible because Gujarathis don't want to share their Lions with others.It's final. May be they re-consider their decision after 2 decades with 900+ lion population boom.Wait and see.