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Lions of Sabi Sands - Printable Version

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RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Potato - 12-01-2019

(12-01-2019, 04:02 PM)Mohawk4 Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 06:20 PM)Potato Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 03:56 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 12:25 AM)Potato Wrote: I agree and I would also put my pet on BBoys in potential confrontation however:
1. If BBoys will be hesitant to take on Avocas than that will be enough to secure Sparta pride and  force BBoys back north.
2. Avocas are so far kind of unknown in terms of strenght. They were chassed by the Charlestons, but Charlestons are on higher level in compare to BBoys and that Charlestons could chasse Avocas around doesn't meen that BBoys will be able to do that as well. Also Avocas have 3 Tsalala males on their resume so it is not that they are some joke duo.

S. Avocas where still new to this area and fairly young when Charlestons returned, they where not confident enough yet to challenge them. 

Based on what you think that Charlestons are higher lvl then Bboys??

And as far i know, theres no report of S. Avocas beating/chasing Tsalala males ever (Tsalalas where half a year younger even) , they had a few little scraps over some carcases with few diffrent outcomes, even few times feeding together. Tsalalas where mating with 1 Sparta lionesses, but where never dominant over that pride, S. Avocas certaintly didnt takeover Sparta from them, Tsalalas just left that area and went into Kruger.

Confrontation with Charlestones was in july 2018. Avocas are born in early 2013 so I would argue if Avoca's age can be excuse.  "Based on what you think that Charlestons are higher lvl then Bboys??" Mainly on size difference ( Charlestones were always considered very big males, when BBoys... well I know there is myth that they are big, but so far from what I heard from guides speaking about their size it is just a myth. Nhenha may be over avarage, but he is no near Charlestons size, not even speaking about Tinyo. Second think is their resume. Charlestons no doubt proved themselfs, when BBoys weren't really been ever tested by enemy coalition.
What comes to Tsalala vs Avoca there you can see full raport if you are intrested:
https://www.lionsands.com/2018/04/two-contending-coalitions/




That video is not from terrytorial dispute. It has been made about one year before confrontation I was talking about occurred.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Mohawk4 - 12-01-2019

Yes i know nut they had many conflicts before....Now its all history after the tragic loss of the 2 Tsalala males....

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Potato - 12-02-2019

N'waswishaka males are in Sabi Sabi. I believe it is only matter of short time before they will try takeover on either Mhangeni or Kambula pride, perhaps even both. They definitely have numbers to do so. They also look old enough to take on other adult males.

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RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 12-02-2019

(12-02-2019, 07:38 PM)Potato Wrote: N'waswishaka males are in Sabi Sabi. I believe it is only matter of short time before they will try takeover on either Mhangeni or Kambula pride, perhaps even both. They definitely have numbers to do so. They also look old enough to take on other adult males.

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Well thats prob the reason why Othawa male and Mhangeni pride are back further north in Singita and Londolozi.

Those guys are getting bigger fast,with bigger manes. And just look at the youngest injured one, that must hurt, but he has that injury for atleast 4 months now, so it seems that doesnt effect him, he even grow some nice mane, this just show the toughness of lions. 

If these guys push forward north, war is certaintly coming in Sabi Sands again, after a few years of peace, lets just hope with minimal losses. 

2 older ones are definetly ready for fighting, but idk yet about 2 younger ones,they seems to be around 3 and a half, still a little too young to fight big males. 

As i said before, best case scenario is that they find 2 Southern Pride lionesses, they are alone and ready for new males and new cubs.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Potato - 12-02-2019

(12-02-2019, 08:34 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(12-02-2019, 07:38 PM)Potato Wrote: N'waswishaka males are in Sabi Sabi. I believe it is only matter of short time before they will try takeover on either Mhangeni or Kambula pride, perhaps even both. They definitely have numbers to do so. They also look old enough to take on other adult males.

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

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*This image is copyright of its original author

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*This image is copyright of its original author

Well thats prob the reason why Othawa male and Mhangeni pride are back further north in Singita and Londolozi.

Those guys are getting bigger fast,with bigger manes. And just look at the youngest injured one, that must hurt, but he has that injury for atleast 4 months now, so it seems that doesnt effect him, he even grow some nice mane, this just show the toughness of lions. 

If these guys push forward north, war is certaintly coming in Sabi Sands again, after a few years of peace, lets just hope with minimal losses. 

2 older ones are definetly ready for fighting, but idk yet about 2 younger ones,they seems to be around 3 and a half, still a little too young to fight big males. 

As i said before, best case scenario is that they find 2 Southern Pride lionesses, they are alone and ready for new males and new cubs.

Two Southern pride females certainly won't be enought for coalition of 4. Two younger males of coalition do not need to be 100% ready. If other two are ready, then with the backup of younger two that should be enough for BBoys and easly for Othawa male.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 12-02-2019

(12-02-2019, 08:53 PM)Potato Wrote: Two Southern pride females certainly won't be enought for coalition of 4. Two younger males of coalition do not need to be 100% ready. If other two are ready, then with the backup of younger two that should be enough for BBoys and easly for Othawa male.

In the long run ofc that 2 Southern pride lioness will not be enough for them, but for the first pride, mating and establishing territory, they would be perfect, before they all mature and pursuit their next, bigger pride.

For Bboys it depends, if they isolate them in a 4 vs 2 fight they can beat them yes, but Bboys rarely separete from the pride, and with 6 Kambula lionesses who have 15 cubs to defend, i dont think they can overtake them yet, those girls are big and not joking around.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Blondemane - 12-03-2019

It would be great if they find the Styx pride, they dont have dominant males with them, i think it coud be a good start. 

Right now we have almost "duo" coalitions in SS, the 2 S.Avocas, 2 BBoys, 2 N.Avocas, i think Othawa male is pretty safe if he stays in his territory and HB Matimba hes noot going anywhere so he is safe too. 

Btw @Tr1x24 great post u have done there about the Mangheni warrior and his brothers/sisters. Well done!

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Potato - 12-03-2019

Northen Avocas are coalition of 3. That they spent most of their time apart is nothink unusual and doesn't mean that their coalition split into two. It is very typical for coalitions which controlls multiple prides to spent time apart, any male with self prefered pride. If some males would enter Avocas's territory they surely they would face invaders united as three. I wouldn't say that Othawa male is safe. There is easly wasy, short way from Sabi Sabi to Singita. Actually Othawa male himself is often moving through both this arenas.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Blondemane - 12-03-2019

N. Avocas are my fav lions, i follow them since their arrival, as a 3 coalition and now a 2+1. I think and i expect that you're right on that, if a threat is near by or get too close of their prides they will follow their natural instinct and reagroup, Darkmane is so close to them, one roar and he will come like a rocket to rejoin them or vice-versa... or things could go in a different way, we never know. 

For the nomads, going into sabisabi could be a mistake, S.Avocas are not a joke in terms of agression, could be a huge mistake for them and that lion with the intestine injury is out for any fight even a female can beat him and rip that wound easily. 

Othawa male as a lone male is always on the edge, thats the true, yes he is becoming massive but he has the numbers factor against him, so he is app safe but as a loner he is never safe right?

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 12-03-2019

@Blondemane Thank you, i appreciate it, i felt like their story needs to be tell, so i made it. 

I think Styx pride will stay nomadic and avoid other males for 1 year more, until the subadults mature, theres still a risk that new males kill those subadults. Lets just hope they dont lose more members, they had 10 in mid 2019,now only to 6..

DM Avoca recently was seen in Cheetah Plains with Talamati pride, in Nkuhuma pride territory, so the brothers prob seen each others aside alone. But as i know, last sighting of them together was in mid 2019 when DM visit them, thats a bit long for a coalition. Maybe both prides having cubs is the reason for that, i dont think that Nkuhuma lionesses would be too happy if DM showed up near the cubs, the same in Talamatis case. 

I too think that Othawa male is in the biggest danger, especially if he still will roam around south Londolozi, Umkumbe and Sabi Sabi.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 12-03-2019

(12-03-2019, 01:48 AM)Blondemane Wrote: For the nomads, going into sabisabi could be a mistake, S.Avocas are not a joke in terms of agression, could be a huge mistake for them and that lion with the intestine injury is out for any fight even a female can beat him and rip that wound easily. 

Othawa male as a lone male is always on the edge, thats the true, yes he is becoming massive but he has the numbers factor against him, so he is app safe but as a loner he is never safe right?

Sabi Sabi is not a territory of S. Avocas, they are further southeast in Kirkmans and some parts of Lion Sands and south MalaMala.

Well yea, theoretically Othawa male is never safe as a lone male.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Blondemane - 12-03-2019

You done a fine "work" putting that sightings and info together.

Yeah, the Styx have some sub-adults, i dont know much about the styx, hard to get daily updates on them but they faced some problems with mange right? thats why they lost 4 members?  

On Darkmane sighting, i think the guides/rangers move to outside areas to get some lions sighting, so the cheetah plains guys prob got Darkmane in buffelshoek, really I don't think he would walk so far south. 

Darkmane already had spending some time with the NKs cubs, the ridgenose cubs, i dont think that is a issue.. he mated with them... like Mohawk mated with Talamati lioness...

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Potato - 12-03-2019

"I think Styx pride will stay nomadic and avoid other males for 1 year more, until the subadults mature, theres still a risk that new males kill those subadults."

On some safari live some guide said that 2 years is (generally) age safe for females by mean that males which did not sire them won't look at them as cubs which need to be eliminated, but as potential mates in the future. Going by that thinking only one which could be in danger would be Styx male. Mala Mala even suggested in one of their recent raports that maybe soon Southern Avocas will dominate that pride.

"Lets just hope they dont lose more members, they had 10 in mid 2019,now only to 6.."

What is more in January they had 13, over a double of current pride's size.

"DM Avoca recently was seen in Cheetah Plains with Talamati pride, in Nkuhuma pride territory, so the brothers prob seen each others aside alone. But as i know, last sighting of them together was in mid 2019 when DM visit them, thats a bit long for a coalition. Maybe both prides having cubs is the reason for that, i dont think that Nkuhuma lionesses would be too happy if DM showed up near the cubs, the same in Talamatis case. "

It is normal that all coalition mambers gets mating rights in the end and because of that will see all those cubs as potentially thair own. I would be highly suprised if Nkuhuma lionesses would have somethink against presence of DM near their cubs and same towards Talamati - 2 other Avocas.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Blondemane - 12-03-2019

(12-03-2019, 02:06 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(12-03-2019, 01:48 AM)Blondemane Wrote: For the nomads, going into sabisabi could be a mistake, S.Avocas are not a joke in terms of agression, could be a huge mistake for them and that lion with the intestine injury is out for any fight even a female can beat him and rip that wound easily. 

Othawa male as a lone male is always on the edge, thats the true, yes he is becoming massive but he has the numbers factor against him, so he is app safe but as a loner he is never safe right?

Sabi Sabi is not a territory of S. Avocas, they are further southeast in Kirkmans and some parts of Lion Sands and south MalaMala.

Well yea, theoretically Othawa male is never safe as a lone male.

Yes, SabiSabi is not their main land, but they can easily go there as they go into Kruger areas cus they have done that so many times, they are the only SabiSands dominant males that crossed the boundary into kruger areas outside of SS. So you can never know where they might be next day, next week.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Potato - 12-03-2019

"Yeah, the Styx have some sub-adults, i dont know much about the styx, hard to get daily updates on them but they faced some problems with mange right? thats why they lost 4 members?  "

It was even hard to keep up with their loses through the year. For sure they lost some in run ins with Torchwood pride. They also were betteling with mange. Overally nomadic life is tough, but I do not know exact cause beside those two.