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+----- Thread: Asiatic Lion - Data, Pictures & Videos (/topic-asiatic-lion-data-pictures-videos)
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RE: Asiatic Lions - Data, Pictures and Videos - Vinay - 11-10-2016
(11-10-2016, 08:51 PM)Pckts Wrote: African's average are probably a bit higher than the 185kg mark you claimed but that doesn't matter, they're larger in weight and appearance.
You said asiatic were "double the strength" and I was just telling you that was incorrect which you just agreed upon.
I said 'double strong' .. for me 60 kg leopard look stronger than 185kg African lion. It can defeat leopard, still it is stronger.
Ok lets take African lion avg as 190 kg.
Asiatic lions are Gujarat's internal issue.Do you know Modi former CM of Gujarat(12yrs past) and now PM of India refused to share lions with other state even central govt/courts requested and threatened him. Now he is our PM till 2024 and beyond.Just forget about second home for Asiatic lions for another 20 years minimum.
RE: Asiatic Lions - Data, Pictures and Videos - Pckts - 11-10-2016
(11-10-2016, 08:57 PM)Vinay Wrote:You think asiatic's look "stronger" than Africans?(11-10-2016, 08:51 PM)Pckts Wrote: African's average are probably a bit higher than the 185kg mark you claimed but that doesn't matter, they're larger in weight and appearance.
You said asiatic were "double the strength" and I was just telling you that was incorrect which you just agreed upon.
I said 'double strong' .. for me 60 kg leopard look stronger than 185kg African lion. It can defeat leopard, still it is stronger(for me).
Ok lets take African lion avg as 190 kg.
I completely disagree, I've seen Africans in person and many photos and I've seen many asiatic photos, spoken with highly regarded people who have years of experience with both and all of us agree, African's are the more powerful looking lion.
RE: Asiatic Lions - Data, Pictures and Videos - Vinay - 11-10-2016
(11-10-2016, 09:00 PM)Pckts Wrote: You think asiatic's look "stronger" than Africans?By outer look,lack of mane and scratches on the entire face Asians look weak wrt Africans but i'm 100% sure battle tested Asians can kick-out Africans easily.
I completely disagree, I've seen Africans in person and many photos and I've seen many asiatic photos, spoken with highly regarded people who have years of experience with both and all of us agree, African's are the more powerful looking lion.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Asiatics rarely hunt stray dogs or kids/humans (leopards favorite pray) but they quarrel frequently with each-other not joke fights like Africans SERIOUS BATTLES ... that is their nature.Never underestimate battle veteran, ever.
==================
btw as a citizen i respects Gujarat's decision and knew country politics and sentiments, ''lions transformation will not be possible for another 20 yrs''.
But as a wild enthusiastic i am the first guy who want to see all HEAVY WEIGHTS in 1 or 2 parks in India.Now they all are separated in North,South,West and East.
Just imagine....
Bengal Tigers,Asiatic Lions,Leopards,Sloth Bears Vs Asian Elephants,Gaurs,Water Buffalo,One horned Rhinos in one park
++ Dholes,Wolves,Snow/Clouded leopards,Wolves,Foxes,Striped Hyenas,Various deer and antelopes ... Not possible!!
RE: Asiatic Lions - Data, Pictures and Videos - Pckts - 11-10-2016
I know that a few months on this forum will change your opinion on that @
I'd start with the mapogos and majingilanes and then go from there.
RE: Asiatic Lions - Data, Pictures and Videos - Ngala - 11-16-2016
Photo and information credits: Vladimir Čech
"A little flashback to the last year and a short stop in Gir National Park & Sanctuary."
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Asiatic Lions - Data, Pictures and Videos - Vinay - 11-16-2016
(11-10-2016, 09:45 PM)Pckts Wrote: I know that a few months on this forum will change your opinion on that @Vinay
I'd start with the mapogos and majingilanes and then go from there.
Am always open to discussion. btw I've few back-up points
1.Asiatic lions avg height is 3ft at shoulder(like tiger) and African 4ft !
2.Almost all Asiatic lions have serious injury marks on their faces.
3.Mane is not for protection as many claims,it is for attract lionesses. Nd most importantly 'mane is heat generator not good for lions'.(As lions -less mane)
4.Except South Africa lions (Avg 185 kg!! .. IS it true?) all lions avg weight is at par with Asiatic lions.
RE: Asiatic Lions - Data, Pictures and Videos - Tshokwane - 11-16-2016
(11-16-2016, 12:18 PM)Vinay Wrote: 1.Asiatic lions avg height is 3ft at shoulder(like tiger) and African 4ft !
4.Except South Africa lions (Avg 185 kg!! .. IS it true?) all lions avg weight is at par with Asiatic lions.
Here's @GuateGojira comparison table. There you have the height and weight for the different population of lions.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Quote:2.Almost all Asiatic lions have serious injury marks on their faces.
That's a given for every lion. A lion that has no facial markings is most likely a male that is not dominant over a territory and prides. Facial scarring comes more from intra-group fights, with coalition brothers and with lionesess than from fights with rival males.
Quote:3.Mane is not for protection as many claims,it is for attract lionesses. Nd most importantly 'mane is heat generator not good for lions'.(As lions -less mane)
There's a position for both of those stances, you can read about it in this thread: The Mane
RE: Asiatic Lions - Data, Pictures and Videos - Pckts - 11-16-2016
@
Shoulder height is no different between the species (significant overlap)
Facial scarring is normal in all big cats, just look at the "battle scarred thread"
The mane has many purposes, it has as much to do with location and temp, as it does with testosterone production and health or defense.
RE: Asiatic Lions - Data, Pictures and Videos - Vinay - 11-16-2016
@"Majingilane" @Pckts
Many sites claimed African lion avg height is 4ft and Asiatic 3 ft ..... just google. Anyway,i take gujira data/tables as genuine and so all lions height is nearly same.
2.Africans lions fights are most probably fun fights, i rarely saw serious injury marks on them unlike Asiatic.
3.Regarding 'mane',it is just like peacock-train, females are attracted by it.Yup, mane is testosterone and health indicator and heat generator too.
RE: Asiatic Lions - Data, Pictures and Videos - Pckts - 11-16-2016
(11-16-2016, 09:19 PM)Vinay Wrote: @"Majingilane" @Pckts
Many sites claimed African lion avg height is 4ft and Asiatic 3 ft ..... just google. Anyway,i take gujira data/tables as genuine and so all lions height is nearly same.
2.Africans lions fights are most probably fun fights, i rarely saw serious injury marks on them unlike Asiatic.
3.Regarding 'mane',it is just like peacock-train, females are attracted by it.Yup, mane is testosterone and health indicator and heat generator too.
You'll see serious marks all over African lions and you'll Asiatics with little marks and vice versa of course.
In regards to "fun fights," lets be realistic... You really cannot show me more than one or two images/videos of Asiatic's in a fight, let a lone stories of coalitions killing off males in a systematic fashion. You can of course say that there are 1000s more African lions than Asiatic Lions and that's why there may not be as many stories but you could use that same excuse as to why some African lions don't have scars and others do.
Most importantly is this, the GIR is 545 sq. mi, compare that to the Serengeti which is 5,695 sq miles, which isn't even the largest park in Tanzania, do you really think that this small pocket of lions who are extremely protected and isolated can really outmatch that many more lions elsewhere?
RE: Asiatic Lions - Data, Pictures and Videos - Vinay - 11-16-2016
(11-16-2016, 10:07 PM)Pckts Wrote: You'll see serious marks all over African lions and you'll Asiatics with little marks and vice versa of course.
In regards to "fun fights," lets be realistic... You really cannot show me more than one or two images/videos of Asiatic's in a fight, let a lone stories of coalitions killing off males in a systematic fashion. You can of course say that there are 1000s more African lions than Asiatic Lions and that's why there may not be as many stories but you could use that same excuse as to why some African lions don't have scars and others do.
Most importantly is this, the GIR is 545 sq. mi, compare that to the Serengeti which is 5,695 sq miles, which isn't even the largest park in Tanzania, do you really think that this small pocket of lions who are extremely protected and isolated can really outmatch that many more lions elsewhere?
Yeah, from 30,000 African Savanna lions you can show 2/3 incidents of every-kind.That is the main problem....
Do you really believe that 500+ lions are packed in 545 sq mi ??
Common, just google a little bit.That is 2 decades old data (highlighted in picture). They are living in a 22000 Sqkm(8500 Sq miles) unprotected area now,means some villages are still living there.
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Asiatic Lions - Data, Pictures and Videos - Pckts - 11-16-2016
(11-10-2016, 09:39 PM)Vinay Wrote: ==================
btw as a citizen i respects Gujarat's decision and knew country politics and sentiments, ''lions transformation will not be possible for another 20 yrs''.
But as a wild enthusiastic i am the first guy who want to see all HEAVY WEIGHTS in 1 or 2 parks in India.Now they all are separated in North,South,West and East.
Just imagine....
Bengal Tigers,Asiatic Lions,Leopards,Sloth Bears Vs Asian Elephants,Gaurs,Water Buffalo,One horned Rhinos in one park
++ Dholes,Wolves,Snow/Clouded leopards,Wolves,Foxes,Striped Hyenas,Various deer and antelopes ... Not possible!!
Where exactly would you see that?
There is only one park where you can see that now, Kaziranga and maybe Dudhwa, and Lions have never been spotted there or any place where Tigers live to my knowledge, they just don't seem to overlap like that, their preferred habitats seem to keep them apart from one another.
And with deforestation happening as fast as it is now, the chances of seeing a couple of large herbivores and a single apex carnivore are rare.
RE: Asiatic Lions - Data, Pictures and Videos - Pckts - 11-16-2016
(11-16-2016, 10:31 PM)Vinay Wrote:I see no reason why not, 500 lions doesn't mean 500 adult prime males.(11-16-2016, 10:07 PM)Pckts Wrote: You'll see serious marks all over African lions and you'll Asiatics with little marks and vice versa of course.
In regards to "fun fights," lets be realistic... You really cannot show me more than one or two images/videos of Asiatic's in a fight, let a lone stories of coalitions killing off males in a systematic fashion. You can of course say that there are 1000s more African lions than Asiatic Lions and that's why there may not be as many stories but you could use that same excuse as to why some African lions don't have scars and others do.
Most importantly is this, the GIR is 545 sq. mi, compare that to the Serengeti which is 5,695 sq miles, which isn't even the largest park in Tanzania, do you really think that this small pocket of lions who are extremely protected and isolated can really outmatch that many more lions elsewhere?
Yeah, from 30,000 African Savanna lions you can show 2/3 incidents of every-kind.That is the main problem....
Do you really believe that 500+ lions are packed in 545 sq mi ??
*This image is copyright of its original author
The IUCN has their numbers around here
"Current total population size is about 350 animals. Was increasing, but is now stable as has reached its expansion limits and there are now increasing poaching incidents. At least 100 animals are outside the Gir Forest protected area. Total number of mature animals is about 175."
and while they have begun to leave the park on their own, which was discussed already, they only have so much room to grow.
"Asiatic lions are genetically distinct from the lions of sub-Saharan Africa, although the difference is not large, being smaller than the genetic distance between human racial groups (Nowell and Jackson 1996). The Gir is dry deciduous forest dominated by teak, the predominance of which is partially due to the silvicultural practices of the Gujarat State Forest Department, which permits logging and replants clear-cut areas with teak (Nowell and Jackson 1996). The forest, which covered about 2,600 km² at the turn of the century, has since shrunk to less than half this size. Most of the remaining forest is included in the Gir National Park and Wildlife Sanctuary (Nowell and Jackson 1996)."
http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/15952/0
So to think that a population of 500 is somehow living a more difficult life than 20,000 to 30,000 other lion individuals isn't realistic.
There isn't a scenario you can present for Asiatics that doesn't occur for African Lions in some part.
RE: Asiatic Lions - Data, Pictures and Videos - Vinay - 11-16-2016
(11-16-2016, 10:32 PM)Pckts Wrote: Where exactly would you see that?
There is only one park where you can see that now, Kaziranga and maybe Dudhwa, and Lions have never been spotted there or any place where Tigers live to my knowledge, they just don't seem to overlap like that, their preferred habitats seem to keep them apart from one another.
And with deforestation happening as fast as it is now, the chances of seeing a couple of large herbivores and a single apex carnivore are rare.
Acc. to old data Asiatic lions were actually lived in central India (jungles).
http://s917.photobucket.com/user/JinenFordragon/media/AsiaticLion-map.png.html
All Bengal Tigers,Leopards,Sloth Bears,Asian Elephants,Gaurs,Water Buffalo and small prey and predators lives across Indian jungles.Some may extinct in some parks but reintroduction is not a problem except Lions and Rhinos,for Rhinos we need river bed and for lions govt approval.
To implement the plan Indians need some scientific temper mix with business potential/profits.It takes another 20 years to change!!
RE: Asiatic Lions - Data, Pictures and Videos - Pckts - 11-16-2016
(11-16-2016, 10:52 PM)Vinay Wrote:(11-16-2016, 10:32 PM)Pckts Wrote: Where exactly would you see that?
There is only one park where you can see that now, Kaziranga and maybe Dudhwa, and Lions have never been spotted there or any place where Tigers live to my knowledge, they just don't seem to overlap like that, their preferred habitats seem to keep them apart from one another.
And with deforestation happening as fast as it is now, the chances of seeing a couple of large herbivores and a single apex carnivore are rare.
Acc. to old data Asiatic lions were actually lived in central India (jungles).
http://s917.photobucket.com/user/JinenFordragon/media/AsiaticLion-map.png.html
All Bengal Tigers,Leopards,Sloth Bears,Asian Elephants,Gaurs,Water Buffalo and small prey and predators lives across Indian jungles.Some may extinct in some parks but reintroduction is not a problem except Lions and Rhinos,for Rhinos we need river bed and for lions govt approval.
To implement the plan Indians need some scientific temper mix with business potential/profits.It takes another 20 years to change!!
Maybe this is true and maybe its not but that doesn't change the fact that as long as Humans have been able to record information and pass it down, there are no known images or stories of Lions and Tigers overlapping habitat other than one outrageous claim.
Even if they did share areas like "Central India or N. India" that doesn't mean that they shared habitat and it's probably the reason why we cannot find any info on interaction or cohabitation between the two species.
But that doesn't mean that it didn't happen in the past, just not often obviously and the chances of it happening now are non existent unless the gov't changes its mind.