(10-27-2018, 03:38 AM)Wolverine Wrote: @tigerluver since many of us are not paleontologists and we don't follow all news what is the final opinion of the science: were actually cave lions really a "lions" (Panthera leo) or they were a diferent representatives of genus Panthera. Fossilis, spalea and Atrox? Was the American lion a "lion"?
In order to not get us in confusion it's gonna be great if you could answer shortly, like: "Yes, they were a lions!" or "No, they were not a lions!".

If not, to which current Pantherinae species they were more closely related - to lion, tiger or jaguar?

(10-27-2018, 08:24 AM)tigerluver Wrote:

(10-27-2018, 03:38 AM)Wolverine Wrote: @tigerluver since many of us are not paleontologists and we don't follow all news what is the final opinion of the science: were actually cave lions really a "lions" (Panthera leo) or they were a diferent representatives of genus Panthera. Fossilis, spalea and Atrox? Was the American lion a "lion"?
In order to not get us in confusion it's gonna be great if you could answer shortly, like: "Yes, they were a lions!" or "No, they were not a lions!".

If not, to which current Pantherinae species they were more closely related - to lion, tiger or jaguar?

The cave lions (P. spelaea/fossilis) and the American lion (P. atrox) were not modern lions (P. leo). However, they are most closely related to the modern lion (P. leo). On the other hand, these species are most distant from the tiger (P. tigris) and a bit less distant, but still distant, from the jaguar (P. onca).

(10-27-2018, 09:53 AM)Wolverine Wrote: "Cave kinda lions" and "American kinda lion" … 

(10-27-2018, 11:40 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(10-27-2018, 09:53 AM)Wolverine Wrote: "Cave kinda lions" and "American kinda lion" … 

I would say, that it is best to keep calling animals as those are called officially and not start to create "alternate realities" in, should I say after all  "amateur forums". It is of course ok to speculate and observe, but there is still science community with professionals, who change classifications when they see, that there is enough information and justification to do so. I don´t think, that people here have enough competence to create new classifications even though there can be reasons to make good estimations about future.

I would find it quite interesting if amateurs would start to make own realities ignoring what professionals are saying. Changing some classification for sure happens if and when there is enough information, which is agreed broadly in science community.

(10-28-2018, 05:05 AM)Wolverine Wrote:

(10-27-2018, 11:40 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(10-27-2018, 09:53 AM)Wolverine Wrote: "Cave kinda lions" and "American kinda lion" … 

I would say, that it is best to keep calling animals as those are called officially and not start to create "alternate realities" in, should I say after all  "amateur forums". It is of course ok to speculate and observe, but there is still science community with professionals, who change classifications when they see, that there is enough information and justification to do so. I don´t think, that people here have enough competence to create new classifications even though there can be reasons to make good estimations about future.

I would find it quite interesting if amateurs would start to make own realities ignoring what professionals are saying. Changing some classification for sure happens if and when there is enough information, which is agreed broadly in science community.

About what "alternative classification" are talking about? Probably you don't know that lion, jaguar and leopard are very closely related and create one group inside genus Panthera, while tiger and snow leopard are also closely related and create another group inside genus Panthera:

*This image is copyright of its original author

Panthera fossilis/spelaea and Panthera Atrox are officially included in the firsts group. 
Before you insult somebody else first read some literature. Even wiki will be Ok for you if you want to make your first steps in this topic (see the Philogeny tree):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panthera

About change of what "official" names you talk about? The only official name in biology is this in Latin letters, others are only nick names. For example in Canada Puma concolor is called "cougar", in USA - "mountain lion", in Europe - "puma", in Florida - "panther". That is not important, important is what is written in Latin letters. In same way somebody could call Panthera fossilis "cave lion", somebody in Argentina could call it "cave ostrich" or "cave elephant". The "official" name of the animal is in Latin. But the nick names of the animals should not confuse the readers. "Lions" are only the animals who belong to specie Panthera leo.
Pahthera fossilis and P. Atrox didn't belong to P. leo so they were not "lions". Its easy like 2+2=4.

(10-27-2018, 08:24 AM)tigerluver Wrote:

(10-27-2018, 03:38 AM)Wolverine Wrote: @tigerluver since many of us are not paleontologists and we don't follow all news what is the final opinion of the science: were actually cave lions really a "lions" (Panthera leo) or they were a diferent representatives of genus Panthera. Fossilis, spalea and Atrox? Was the American lion a "lion"?
In order to not get us in confusion it's gonna be great if you could answer shortly, like: "Yes, they were a lions!" or "No, they were not a lions!".

If not, to which current Pantherinae species they were more closely related - to lion, tiger or jaguar?

The cave lions (P. spelaea/fossilis) and the American lion (P. atrox) were not modern lions (P. leo). However, they are most closely related to the modern lion (P. leo). On the other hand, these species are most distant from the tiger (P. tigris) and a bit less distant, but still distant, from the jaguar (P. onca).

(10-28-2018, 06:12 PM)Smilodon-Rex Wrote:

(10-27-2018, 08:24 AM)tigerluver Wrote:

(10-27-2018, 03:38 AM)Wolverine Wrote: @tigerluver since many of us are not paleontologists and we don't follow all news what is the final opinion of the science: were actually cave lions really a "lions" (Panthera leo) or they were a diferent representatives of genus Panthera. Fossilis, spalea and Atrox? Was the American lion a "lion"?
In order to not get us in confusion it's gonna be great if you could answer shortly, like: "Yes, they were a lions!" or "No, they were not a lions!".

If not, to which current Pantherinae species they were more closely related - to lion, tiger or jaguar?

The cave lions (P. spelaea/fossilis) and the American lion (P. atrox) were not modern lions (P. leo). However, they are most closely related to the modern lion (P. leo). On the other hand, these species are most distant from the tiger (P. tigris) and a bit less distant, but still distant, from the jaguar (P. onca).

Panthera atrox and Panthera fossils are the real and pure lion,  however, Panthera spelea may the hybrid lion species which continued other Panthera linage ? especially when spelaea developed into later Pleistocene,  the similarities between Cave lion(Panthera spelea) and tiger(Panthera tiger）may equivalent to jaguar(Panthera onca）and leopard(Panthera pardus）

(10-28-2018, 06:12 PM)Smilodon-Rex Wrote: Panthera atrox and Panthera fossils are the real and pure lion,  however, Panthera spelea may the hybrid lion species which continued other Panthera linage ? especially when spelaea developed into later Pleistocene,  the similarities between Cave lion(Panthera spelea) and tiger(Panthera tiger）may equivalent to jaguar(Panthera onca）and leopard(Panthera pardus）

(10-28-2018, 06:26 PM)Smilodon-Rex Wrote:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author
 The evolution history of Lion's family tree