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+----- Thread: BODY SIZE AND MASS OF NGORONGORO CRATER LIONS (/topic-body-size-and-mass-of-ngorongoro-crater-lions)
RE: BODY SIZE AND MASS OF NGORONGORO CRATER LIONS - GuateGojira - 06-06-2015
In fact, the record of 272 kg was NOT confirmed. Richard Kock send different answers to different people. In some emails he said that he don't know about the weight, in others that it was weighed, so at the end, there is no real confirmation from his part.
Sources like that posted by Pckts only copy-paste the record from Nowell & Jackson (1996), which at the same time, quotes Kock, which never confirmed the record.
More interesting, the Kenya Wildlife Service denied this record and states that the heaviest lion recorded in the area is male of 230 kg, from the Aberdares NP, which is also near the mount Kenya. Also, the book of the Dr Bruce Patterson about the Tsavo lions also quote the male of 230 kg and not the one of 272 kg. Besides, there is no information on the scales used there, se don't know how accurate were.
Finally, the heaviest lion confirmed by scientific sources is a huge male of 250 kg "empty" reported in Timbavati PNR, in South Africa. For Kenya, the male of 230 kg in Aberdares NP is the heaviest, sadly modern books only quote the figure of 272 kg because is already published in an "official" book without investigating more sources. That is why this forum is so important, to see beyond the published information and to dig deeper in the history.
RE: Pictorial of lions from ngorongoro crater - GuateGojira - 06-07-2015
Great pictures @Pantherinae, but sincerely there is no need to create new topics just to show pictures.
There are already two different topics about this:
1. This one is for pictures of lions: http://wildfact.com/forum/topic-lion-pictures-and-videos
2. This is specifically about Crater lions: http://wildfact.com/forum/topic-body-size-and-mass-of-ngorongoro-crater-lions
I suggest to post all these pictures in the topic of Crater lions and latter delete the topic. There are already to many post of just pictures. Hope you understand.
RE: BODY SIZE AND MASS OF NGORONGORO CRATER LIONS - Dr Panthera - 10-22-2015
I spent a few weeks in Kenya and Tanzania researching lion feeding ecology with respect to migratory wildebeest and I did spend some time in the Crater and was amazed by its lions.
First we have to differentiate by the 8990 square kilometres ngorongoro conservation area where Maasai tribes live , prey is sparse, and the lions are of average size( 160-200 kg) and the 260 square kilometres Ngorongoro Crater where 2400 meters walls enclose it and it harbours a very high density of herbivores making it lion paradise
Of the 62 lions that live in the crater I saw six lioness that rivalled the Serengeti males in size and two massive males , in scientific literature we only have the male measured by Ingelsson of 235kg, I was told of the weight of two males that died there by my guide ..both in the 240's kg , I will ask the Tanzania wildlife institute to provide us with more info if available
But to the naked eye these are likely to be the biggest lions in the world and along with some of Bengal tigers in their northern range ( Nepal, Terai, Assam) the largest cats though we need large scientific data before confirming such observation
RE: BODY SIZE AND MASS OF NGORONGORO CRATER LIONS - strana - 10-22-2015
(10-22-2015, 12:25 AM)Dr Panthera Wrote: I spent a few weeks in Kenya and Tanzania researching lion feeding ecology with respect to migratory wildebeest and I did spend some time in the Crater and was amazed by its lions.
First we have to differentiate by the 8990 square kilometres ngorongoro conservation area where Maasai tribes live , prey is sparse, and the lions are of average size( 160-200 kg) and the 260 square kilometres Ngorongoro Crater where 2400 meters walls enclose it and it harbours a very high density of herbivores making it lion paradise
Of the 62 lions that live in the crater I saw six lioness that rivalled the Serengeti males in size and two massive males , in scientific literature we only have the male measured by Ingelsson of 235kg, I was told of the weight of two males that died there by my guide ..both in the 240's kg , I will ask the Tanzania wildlife institute to provide us with more info if available
But to the naked eye these are likely to be the biggest lions in the world and along with some of Bengal tigers in their northern range ( Nepal, Terai, Assam) the largest cats though we need large scientific data before confirming such observation
Thanks for the information.
Do you believe that lions in Crater are bigger than in Okavango Delta ?? I ask it because some people are sure that no lions are comparable to those living in Okavango and some say Crater lions are the biggest animals.
By the way I can not agree with the afirmation that Crater lions can compete with Bengal tigers : 240 kg is a very normal weight for a dominant tiger in South/Central India, while it looks like only a few of Crater or Okavango lions can reach 230+kg Those tigers in northern range are in another league.
RE: BODY SIZE AND MASS OF NGORONGORO CRATER LIONS - Black Lorren - 10-22-2015
Hey Dr Panthera ,
Thank you for the South African breeze!
There is no doubt regarding male lions getting as big as necessary, but in Ngorongoro Crater's case, one can only guess that the abundance of prey push this fellow's limits.
The Emerald Forests were always as green as the Ngorongoro's plains...i always knew it.
RE: BODY SIZE AND MASS OF NGORONGORO CRATER LIONS - Dr Panthera - 10-22-2015
(10-22-2015, 03:25 AM)strana Wrote:As I stated I want to see a sample of sizes showing a lot of readings and measurements before we can make a conclusion , we only have large samples of big cat sizes ( more than fifty specimens) from four areas only:(10-22-2015, 12:25 AM)Dr Panthera Wrote: I spent a few weeks in Kenya and Tanzania researching lion feeding ecology with respect to migratory wildebeest and I did spend some time in the Crater and was amazed by its lions.
First we have to differentiate by the 8990 square kilometres ngorongoro conservation area where Maasai tribes live , prey is sparse, and the lions are of average size( 160-200 kg) and the 260 square kilometres Ngorongoro Crater where 2400 meters walls enclose it and it harbours a very high density of herbivores making it lion paradise
Of the 62 lions that live in the crater I saw six lioness that rivalled the Serengeti males in size and two massive males , in scientific literature we only have the male measured by Ingelsson of 235kg, I was told of the weight of two males that died there by my guide ..both in the 240's kg , I will ask the Tanzania wildlife institute to provide us with more info if available
But to the naked eye these are likely to be the biggest lions in the world and along with some of Bengal tigers in their northern range ( Nepal, Terai, Assam) the largest cats though we need large scientific data before confirming such observation
Thanks for the information.
Do you believe that lions in Crater are bigger than in Okavango Delta ?? I ask it because some people are sure that no lions are comparable to those living in Okavango and some say Crater lions are the biggest animals.
By the way I can not agree with the afirmation that Crater lions can compete with Bengal tigers : 240 kg is a very normal weight for a dominant tiger in South/Central India, while it looks like only a few of Crater or Okavango lions can reach 230+kg Those tigers in northern range are in another league.
Russia average 180-190. Kg excluding problem animals
Kruger average 189 kg
Serengeti Plains 170's kg
Serengeti woodlands 180's
Of course we get reading and averages of small samples from different parts of India and Nepal of tigers exceeding 225kg and lions in Africa doing so as well but less frequently but these are small samples with no statistical reliability..what concerns me is not the biggest most dominant prime aged male..he does not represent more than 5% of the tiger or lion population I look at a larger sample to show near adults, prime adults, residents, nomads, past prime adults, and old adults and to do that in both males and females and the sufficient scientific data is only from the areas I listed above.
Some Okavango males like the males in the Tsaro pride in the Duba plains described by Joubert are quite large not weighed scientifically but likely to be close to 250 kg, another coalition described by Joubert has a big dark maned lion Mendevu which is definitely over 220 kg and the famous hyena killer , bull elephant attacker, he who greets with fire Ntchwaidumela who was an averaged sized lion of possibly 180 kg so we see again size is not the only thing individual character is also important.
RE: Pictorial of lions from ngorongoro crater - Sully - 11-06-2015
An old male
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Pictorial of lions from ngorongoro crater - Sully - 11-06-2015
RE: Pictorial of lions from ngorongoro crater - Sully - 11-06-2015
Immense speed and strength
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: BODY SIZE AND MASS OF NGORONGORO CRATER LIONS - Pckts - 04-15-2016
5 more months until i see these beasts with my own eyes!
Presenting the Ngorongoro King!
Ngorongoro Conservation Area
Tanzania
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: BODY SIZE AND MASS OF NGORONGORO CRATER LIONS - Gamiz - 06-25-2016
The Coalition of young Brothers Lion Like each other in the Ngorongoro Crater in Tanzania. Taken June15, 2016.
Credits to George Mbaula
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: BODY SIZE AND MASS OF NGORONGORO CRATER LIONS - Pckts - 09-16-2016
Ok guys, here's the facts on the crater males from what I saw.
in the crater, elephants tusks grow larger, the cape are probably the same size, it's filled with zebra, wildabeast, cape, elephants, herdabeast(sp) gazelle (two types) hippo, ostrich and more.
I saw a coalition of 5 young males on a cape kill and they were probably a little smaller than the Serengeti males I saw but.... They were only 3.5 years old.
My guide, who I'm trying to get to join here said the largest male he ever saw was in the crater, he said that most lions, crater or Serengeti are similar size but it's safe to say that the crater due to its richer soil and unusual Ecosystem offers the potential to its inhabitants to grow larger than anywhere else in Africa.
It's also one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen, it's 19km x 21km of birds and beasts and beauty.
RE: BODY SIZE AND MASS OF NGORONGORO CRATER LIONS - Gamiz - 09-16-2016
Great @Pckts, Im anxious to see the pics :)
RE: BODY SIZE AND MASS OF NGORONGORO CRATER LIONS - Spalea - 09-16-2016
@Pckts:
About #150: I hope you will full enjoy such beautiful places like Ngonrogoro Crater in Africa ! I look forward reading your observations...
RE: BODY SIZE AND MASS OF NGORONGORO CRATER LIONS - Pckts - 09-16-2016
Another interesting note is that the crater has 4-5 different prides yet they all interact with each other, even roam from pride to pride with no violence between them.