(09-02-2024, 11:25 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: they are strong enough to take on rival male lions or atleast deter the PCmales from confronting the two directly two versus two

(09-03-2024, 10:07 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Ultimately, the big issue is that the PCmales have a strong tendency to avoid fights. Not that their confidence is lacking.

They are ignoring Tumbella. It took months for them to completely secure Ximhungwe pride as each time they just left and allowed Nhenha Nym and Tumbella to retake the pride. There is the current fiasco with the Mangheni. 

If they fight right now. Sure they will win. But only if they fight. And just chasing them around is not going to cut it here as Nym and co will simply return once the PCmales leave again.

(09-03-2024, 11:36 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Torchwood young male with broken front leg is still alive, not sure if he is one of 3 Torchwood young males who had incident with Kambulas recently:

(09-03-2024, 12:52 PM)Vengeous Wrote:

(09-03-2024, 10:07 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Ultimately, the big issue is that the PCmales have a strong tendency to avoid fights. Not that their confidence is lacking.

They are ignoring Tumbella. It took months for them to completely secure Ximhungwe pride as each time they just left and allowed Nhenha Nym and Tumbella to retake the pride. There is the current fiasco with the Mangheni. 

If they fight right now. Sure they will win. But only if they fight. And just chasing them around is not going to cut it here as Nym and co will simply return once the PCmales leave again.

I understand your take on the situation, but I do think you present a skewed picture of the PCMs and NYM in particular. I was hesitant to share this, but I was in the Western sector last year when I personally witnessed one PCM (the smaller PCM) chasing both Tumbela AND Nkuhuma at the same time when he found them with the Ximunghwes. The PCMs are confident, and are not shy to chase down rival males, even when outnumbered. When I was there, the smaller PCM actually advanced towards Tumbela and NYM, and it was NYM who started running away first, with Tumbela also running away half a minute later with the smaller PCM chasing after him. While I do think a lot of people are quick to highlight the "invincibility" of the PCMs, I think it's unfair to say they avoid fights. They seem reluctant to finish off fights (possibly out of fear of getting injuries, as we saw in their fight against Tumbela last October, who put up a stern defense) but to say they avoid them mischaracterises their personality. They did not "ignore" Tumbela recently, they chased him off just last week - they simply did not visit the Mangheni pride (because as many have concluded, they are mediocre pride males). It is simply how vast a territory they patrol which makes it difficult to flush out rival males, because their interest is mainly on expansion rather than securing the stability of the region.

The above anecdote also does show that NYM has a tendency to bolt when the situation gets frightening, even when it is 1 v 2 in his favour. I'd be happy to share videos of the confrontation if I knew how to upload damn videos onto this forum (I will have to mute the videos to protect my privacy though).

(09-03-2024, 05:07 PM)Robot00 Wrote: What it comes down to is nkuhuma male is not a dependable partner. Ive always had high hopes for him but time and time again he is shown as not a trustworthy partner.

(09-03-2024, 12:52 PM)Vengeous Wrote:

(09-03-2024, 10:07 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Ultimately, the big issue is that the PCmales have a strong tendency to avoid fights. Not that their confidence is lacking.

They are ignoring Tumbella. It took months for them to completely secure Ximhungwe pride as each time they just left and allowed Nhenha Nym and Tumbella to retake the pride. There is the current fiasco with the Mangheni. 

If they fight right now. Sure they will win. But only if they fight. And just chasing them around is not going to cut it here as Nym and co will simply return once the PCmales leave again.

I understand your take on the situation, but I do think you present a skewed picture of the PCMs and NYM in particular. I was hesitant to share this, but I was in the Western sector last year when I personally witnessed one PCM (the smaller PCM) chasing both Tumbela AND Nkuhuma at the same time when he found them with the Ximunghwes. The PCMs are confident, and are not shy to chase down rival males, even when outnumbered. When I was there, the smaller PCM actually advanced towards Tumbela and NYM, and it was NYM who started running away first, with Tumbela also running away half a minute later with the smaller PCM chasing after him. While I do think a lot of people are quick to highlight the "invincibility" of the PCMs, I think it's unfair to say they avoid fights. They seem reluctant to finish off fights (possibly out of fear of getting injuries, as we saw in their fight against Tumbela last October, who put up a stern defense) but to say they avoid them mischaracterises their personality. They did not "ignore" Tumbela recently, they chased him off just last week - they simply did not visit the Mangheni pride (because as many have concluded, they are mediocre pride males). It is simply how vast a territory they patrol which makes it difficult to flush out rival males, because their interest is mainly on expansion rather than securing the stability of the region.

The above anecdote also does show that NYM has a tendency to bolt when the situation gets frightening, even when it is 1 v 2 in his favour. I'd be happy to share videos of the confrontation if I knew how to upload damn videos onto this forum (I will have to mute the videos to protect my privacy though).

(09-03-2024, 10:08 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Regarding the PCM I wouldn't even say they are mediocre pride males as in the true sense of the word I believe it'd mean they are average, I think they are straight up below average in how well they do what the prides expect them to do for them, to not say "they are bad" and get into discussions of what humans perceive as bad or good.

Their strength is also overrated, I'll also agree with that and plead guilty in having overhyped them in the past, I've seen many hype them as these legendary warriors, some of the strongest duos ever seen and what not.

But when you look at it, with the exception of the weak Nhenha/NK coalition of 6 months who struggled to oust lone Tumbela and was barely territorial for a single month, the PCM have only defeated nomads, the only time they faced a strong prime territorial duo, the Ndhzengas, they lost ( it was a tough clash, of course, but Ndhzengas prevailed ).

Still, overrated or not, it's undeniable that they are strong, definitely above average, and much more than this NK/Talamati coalition which I think cannot handle even a single PCM.

NK/Talamati is probably still weaker than Skorro/NK and Tumbela/NK, coalitions that were already roaring and/or mating, trying to become territorial, and definitely much weaker than NK/Nhenha coalition.

NK/Nhenha who the PCM barely acknowledged as a threat and easily beat them, PCM who by then were weaker than they are now in the peak of their prime and experience, so there's no reason to believe NK/Talamati would stand any chances.

Back in the day with the Styx male the PCM were young nomads and a year younger than NK, so obviously NK/Styx had the advantage.

(09-03-2024, 10:22 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(09-03-2024, 09:34 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: While the PCmale in this case understandably avoided a fight. Its also another example that this has been going on for ages now. 
Nym or Tumbella hang out with one of their prides. Then get chased off for a bit. Only to then return once the PCmales leave again and repeat. 
Its clear that this chasing isnt working and the PCmales need to escalate their chasing to more aggressive measures. Which is where the problem lies.

What problem?
 
These males are/where not challenging them.

When they did, or when they found them with pride, they got chased out, and in Nhenha's case, killed.

If nomad is in someones territory, that doesnt mean he is challenging or threat to them.

(09-03-2024, 10:08 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Regarding the PCM I wouldn't even say they are mediocre pride males as in the true sense of the word I believe it'd mean they are average, I think they are straight up below average in how well they do what the prides expect them to do for them, to not say "they are bad" and get into discussions of what humans perceive as bad or good.

Their strength is also overrated, I'll also agree with that and plead guilty in having overhyped them in the past, I've seen many hype them as these legendary warriors, some of the strongest duos ever seen and what not.

But when you look at it, with the exception of the weak Nhenha/NK coalition of 6 months who struggled to oust lone Tumbela and was barely territorial for a single month, the PCM have only defeated nomads, the only time they faced a strong prime territorial duo, the Ndhzengas, they lost ( it was a tough clash, of course, but Ndhzengas prevailed ).

Still, overrated or not, it's undeniable that they are strong, definitely above average, and much more than this NK/Talamati coalition which I think cannot handle even a single PCM.

NK/Talamati is probably still weaker than Skorro/NK and Tumbela/NK, coalitions that were already roaring and/or mating, trying to become territorial, and definitely much weaker than NK/Nhenha coalition.

NK/Nhenha who the PCM barely acknowledged as a threat and easily beat them, PCM who by then were weaker than they are now in the peak of their prime and experience, so there's no reason to believe NK/Talamati would stand any chances.

Back in the day with the Styx male the PCM were young nomads and a year younger than NK, so obviously NK/Styx had the advantage.

(09-03-2024, 11:35 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote:

(09-03-2024, 10:22 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(09-03-2024, 09:34 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: While the PCmale in this case understandably avoided a fight. Its also another example that this has been going on for ages now. 
Nym or Tumbella hang out with one of their prides. Then get chased off for a bit. Only to then return once the PCmales leave again and repeat. 
Its clear that this chasing isnt working and the PCmales need to escalate their chasing to more aggressive measures. Which is where the problem lies.

What problem?
 
These males are/where not challenging them.

When they did, or when they found them with pride, they got chased out, and in Nhenha's case, killed.

If nomad is in someones territory, that doesnt mean he is challenging or threat to them.

 
The whole point of being a territorial male is that you have a territory for yourself and don't share it with other male lions. Regardless of if they are challenging or a threat or not.
Take for instance the Gijimas. Which attacked Tumbella/Nym or the Kambullas the minute they sniffed them out in their area and chased them across the reserve. And it pays off as there are no nomadic lions hanging out for years in their territory.

Even if a nomadic lion isn't challenging the ruling lions. He can also still pose a mayor risk to cubs and pride. 
Both as an attacker as mating competition. There is no rule of respect that you first have to declare war before you can start plundering with lions.