Leopard Predation Thread

[Pckts]

(07-08-2022, 08:58 PM)Twico5 Wrote:

(07-08-2022, 08:34 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(07-08-2022, 08:04 PM)Twico5 Wrote:

(07-08-2022, 04:48 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(07-08-2022, 05:58 AM)Twico5 Wrote:

(07-08-2022, 01:52 AM)Pckts Wrote:

(07-08-2022, 01:46 AM)Twico5 Wrote:

(07-07-2022, 11:35 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(07-07-2022, 11:19 PM)Styx38 Wrote:

(07-07-2022, 04:09 PM)Pckts Wrote: India is filled with either Teak or Sal, the largest reserves in C. India of course are Sal. You have no clue what you’re talking about and neither Teak nor Sal are as good for stashing or resting in trees as compared to the Acacias in E. Africa or the Sausage and Marula trees in S. Africa.
Both Indian varieties are tall and thin while the Africans are thick branches with heavy leaf cover and thick tops.

What about the Crocodile Bark tree of Southern India or the Fir trees of the Himalayas?

If I am correct, don't Leopards cache their kills more often in Southern India?

I'm not familiar with either tree type so I'm not as sure to speak on them but my guess would be that the lusher vegetation seen in S. India would definitely help Leopards with caching their kills. I also think Leopards tend to be a bit more bold and look a little larger in S. India IMO. I feel like Kabini and Bandipur for instance produce some bigger looking Leopards and more often than Kanha/Tadoba even though both have a healthy Tiger population as well.

Trees in the western ghats region (kabini and bandipur are both in this region) are definitely easier to climb and stash kills in for leopards. Leopards in this region are large, yes, but this is probably because the tiger populations there are small. Tigers are really rare in the hilly areas of the western ghats and are almost never seen.

Tiger density in Bandipur is similar if not higher than Kanha. Tiger density won't negatively impact Leopard size if the prey base is large and the terrain accommodates ample areas for the smaller predator to escape.

So then why would leopards be bolder in bandipur? Are you saying that this is a result of bandipur having larger trees? doesnt make any sense

Leopards in almost every tiger reserve across india are noticeably a lot smaller than leopards dwelling in hilly forested areas (wether in N or S india) that have no tigers. There are no exceptions, not even ranthambore because the leopards there live in boulder covered hills and cliffs.

 This leopard is from ranthambore. You wouldnt normally find a tiger in this type of terrain so leopards are at the top of the food chain here and are large and confident as a result of that. 

*This image is copyright of its original author

You just called the Western Ghats leopards big and claimed that was because of a small Tiger population. Now come to find out, you were wrong and the Tiger population is large so you now you switch it to the Leopards being “noticeably smaller?”

In regards to Ranthambore, this is just another area that proves your claim wrong. Ranthambore has another large population of Tigers with a healthy and large population of Leopards and I can guarantee you the boulders your one small image shows is surrounded by trees and both the tigers and leopards will share the habitat. Even in Africa, you’ll often times see lions and their cubs resting on boulders just like this all throughout the Serengeti.
Also I’d like to hear where you think the “hilly forested areas” are in S/N India and the corresponding “larger leopard population” in comparison to the other reserves in S/N that have smaller leopards and aren’t  as “hilly?”

Lastly when I say bold I simply mean that generally the sightings of Leopards seems to be more common in S. India than Central even though both areas have a healthy Tiger population and this most likely is due to the denser foliage.

The tiger population in bandipur and kabini are smaller than in central tiger reserves. Bandipur leopards dont look large like the hill dwelling western ghats leopards i was talking about.


Ranthambore:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Once again the Tiger density in Bandipur is higher than Kanha.  Since Kanha is larger than Bandipur it’ll have more tigers but in terms of Tigers per sq mile, Bandipur will have more. And totals are still going to be close.

Your claim about leopard size differences isn’t backed by anything of substance as Bandipur Leopards look as large or larger than most others and certainly larger than the ones you see in Tadoba or Kanha most of the time.

And what is the point of posting hills?
I can do the same with forest everywhere. No Leopard is going to stay in barren terrain unless prey is there as well, if ample prey is there then Tigers will be too.

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Its possible that because leopards are able to stash their kills in trees easily in bandipur and kabini they get larger than leopards in other tiger reserves. Still though they are smaller than leopards living outside these reserves. Leopards in the nilgiri hills for example are the apex predator and easily appear to be larger than bandipur leopards. Tiger occurence and density does obviously affect leopard size in one way or another i dont get what youre trying to prove. Tigers steal their kills and kill leopards. As a result of this leopards also avoid large prey items that tigers tend to hunt.

 A tiger is not stealing a leopard's kill in an area like this. There would be no tigers on these cliffs to begin with and a tiger couldnt chase after and catch a leopard in such terrain. There is a reason why the jawai hills dont have any tigers. Tigers arent physcially suited for the terrain. These boulder covered hills found across india are where leopards thrive, because a lot of the time there is just enough prey for leopards but without any competition. 

*This image is copyright of its original author

You're  getting away from what this debate was actually about and it was the claim that African Leopards were more adept arboreal cats which wasn't the case. It had more to do with the Tree differences between India and Africa. 

Regardless, 

Quote:Its possible that because leopards are able to stash their kills in trees easily in bandipur and kabini they get larger than leopards in other tiger reserves. Still though they are smaller than leopards living outside these reserves. Leopards in the nilgiri hills for example are the apex predator and easily appear to be larger than bandipur leopards. Tiger occurence and density does obviously affect leopard size in one way or another i dont get what youre trying to prove. Tigers steal their kills and kill leopards. As a result of this leopards also avoid large prey items that tigers tend to hunt.

Again, there isn't anything of substance to make a claim that the Leopards of the Nilgiri Hills are larger than Bandipur leopards and they certainly don't look to be so from any photos shown. Next is the fact that like your claim with Bandipur that was incorrect, the same holds true from the Nilgiri Hills which also has a healthy population of Tigers and has been constantly growing. Being an apex predator is only one factor contributing to larger size, there are many that need to coincide that would make the largest cats of a certain subspecies. Prey type/density along with climate, terrain and water are going to be far more important. This is shown anywhere in Africa where the largest Leopards will come from areas with the most prey. Why do you think that such big Leopards are frequent in the Serengeti or S. Africa yet the Lion populations there are so high? The same is going to hold true for Indian Leopards. As long as the prey density is high, the temps are cool and water is available, the Leopards will be big and healthy. 

Quote:A tiger is not stealing a leopard's kill in an area like this. There would be no tigers on these cliffs to begin with and a tiger couldnt chase after and catch a leopard in such terrain. There is a reason why the jawai hills dont have any tigers. Tigers arent physcially suited for the terrain. These boulder covered hills found across india are where leopards thrive, because a lot of the time there is just enough prey for leopards but without any competition. 

And a Leopard isn't making a kill in an area like that often. So what's your point?
Leopards hunt Chital and fawn of larger ungulates, where they congregate is where Tigers hunt. Leopards thrive throughout many reserves with high Tiger population just like African Leopards with high Lion populations.



@Luipaard 

Quote:That's just thinking black and white, ignoring the grey part in the middle. In India there's plenty of trees large enough for leopards (and even tigers) to climb. Again that's why there's footage of leopards mating and fighting in trees. Tigers have chased leopards up a tree by climbing as well.

Who said there aren't trees to climb?

Point was that Teak/Sal trees are far less suitable to stash kills in comparison to the ones found throughout africa. This is shown generally by how rare it actually is to see a leopard in a tree in India, especially C. or N. India compared to S. India. And rare footage of Leopards fighting or mating in trees has to do with what exactly? Are you trying to compare how often it occurs between India and Africa? Obviously it's not even close. You're also not providing locations of where these Leopard instances occurred. 

Quote:You purposely compared two extremes with each other to make a point. As if there are literally no trees for leopards to stash kills. But again there's evidence that says otherwise:

You show a dhole carcass in tree to prove what? 
Once again, where was this and how often do we see something like this compared to Africa? 

Quote:I'm not gonna debate where the most usable trees are to be found. After all we're comparing a big country to an entire continent.

No, we're comparing reserves in Africa to Reserves in India.
That's like me saying Asia is bigger than Africa so we can't compare.
These different reserves have different species of trees and depending on the location, you'll see different behaviors. Reply