ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)

[Genghis]

@peter 

I've noticed from many of your posts in the past, that you love to talk about tigers and brown bears. So, i'll give you my take on this subject and see what you think about it...

You say that neither dominates the other, well, I have to strongly disagree with you on that. After looking into this subject for many years, reading countless debates and observing all the legit evidence, to me its very clear and obvious that the tiger dominates the brown bear, period. Why?....

I'll start off with who comes out on top more often, in face-to-face fights. Here's some sources which clearly show's and proves that the tiger is the usual winner against the brown bear:

"In 44 recorded encounters between tigers and brown bears, the tiger initiated contact in 12 cases while the bear initiated contact in 8 cases. Of these encounters, 50% resulted in the death of the bear, 27.3% resulted in the death of the tiger and in 22.7% of encounters both animals survived and parted ways" (Page 68):

http://www.carnivoreconservation.org/fil...a_2011.pdf

So, in direct confrontations, the tiger killed the bear 22 times, and the bear killed the tiger only 12 times. 

Here's another source from scientific literature, proving tigers win far more often then vice versa:

In 45 cases of head-on collisions between tigers and brown bears, 51% of collisions ended with a dead bear, and only 26% of collisions ended with a dead tiger:

*This image is copyright of its original author

https://www.researchgate.net/publication...THIBETANUS

Here's an account of a tiger that challenged a large brown bear over its wild boar kill, and killed the bear after a bloody battle:

"We heard one story about how a "large brown bear" having taken on a wild boar and covered it with scat and brushwood to make some "stewed boar, bear style," suddenly got paid a visit by a hungry tiger. Oh how much blood got shed! The owner of the kill died of terrible wounds and the disfigured tiger, moving off like a drunk, didn't even bother with the fresh spoils of the kill" (Page 23)...
http://www.wf.ru/tiger/book/The%20Amur%20Tiger.pdf

I'm assuming that was a large male brown bear.

Here's a journal I came across, which states that the tiger is the usual winner over the brown bear:

"S.P. Kucherenko notes that the average tiger is always stronger then the average bear"...

"But indeed from the scientific literature it follows that the tiger not only is NOT inferior to the bear, but even more frequently it leaves as conqueror"
https://shish02.livejournal.com/7269.html?thread=55909

I've not seen a single fight statistic which shows the brown bear coming out on top more then the tiger, not one. From what I've seen and heard, most, if not all Russian biologists agree that the tiger is superior and is the usual winner in a fight.

What confirmed it even more for me, is this taxidermy, which shows a male tiger and a male brown bear fighting, and you can clearly see, the tiger is in the more dominant position, and biting the bear in his neck:

*This image is copyright of its original author

Now, I asked myself, if an adult male brown bear is more formidable then a male tiger, then why would the Russians depict the fight in such a way, which looks like the tiger is winning!

Its because thats the usual outcome. The tiger wins far more often then not over the brown bear. The clear statistics documented by the biologists show it, and this taxidermy shows it.

Now, to predations; Scientific research has shown that tigers actually regularly hunt and kill brown bears and that bears are a very important seasonal prey for tigers, especially during the summer months. Bear hairs have also been found repeatedly in the autumn faeces of tigers too. Its also a fact that tigers do kill LARGER Brown bears then themselves, which was also confirmed by Linda Kerley in her email.

In fact, here's an account reported by Kerley and J. Goodrich of a 200kg male tiger that specialized in killing brown bears larger then itself: (I'm sure you've seen this account before).

*This image is copyright of its original author

Here's a scientific article, showing that tigers consumed more bears then wild boars, during the snow-free period:

"Across all sites, tiger diet varied seasonally, with tigers consuming more bear, and less wild boar biomass during the snow-free months" (Page 359)...

"In addition, bears constituted a significantly higher proportion of tiger diet in the summer, and while not significant, badgers increased in the diet of tigers during the snow-free period as well"...

"The increased predation on bears and badgers is likely due to their increased availability following emergence from hibernation and the increased vulnerability of their young, although tigers do prey on adult bears. Amur tiger predation on bear is not a new phenomenon, but our results, in addition to identifying seasonality in tiger predation of bears, also suggests that bears constitute a relatively large portion of tiger diet, particularly during the snow-free period"...(Page 360)
https://www.researchgate.net/publication...n_Far_East

Peter, I also noticed that you said "There's no question that large male bears dominate"...Well, I've never seen any proof of that claim. If large male bears dominate tigers, then why isn't there a single confirmed case, of even the biggest and baddest male brown bears out there, ever challenging a healthy adult male tiger?..

Why do the very large male brown bears deliberately pick on much smaller female tigers and cubs, and never prime male tigers?

In fact, here's a source stating, that bears prefer to contest the much smaller female tigers, lest it become an item of tiger diet":

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Alot of people, grossly exaggerate about bears "usurping" kills from tigers, and act like most of the time, its "direct" usurping and that their taking kills from adult male tigers, which is a complete LIE.

If you actually look at the context of these cases, MAJORITY of the time, the bear will wait for the tigress to have her share of the kill and leave the area. Thats when the bear will make his move and usurp the kill. Most cases are not even direct usurps, like alot of people make it out to be:

"Bears exploited tiger kills after a tiger had left, by usurping a kill, or by "sharing" a kill at alternate times"
https://www.researchgate.net/publication...THIBETANUS

On top of that, there's not a single confirmed modern day record of a brown bear even killing an adult tigress!

There's not a single case ever, of a brown bear ever killing a larger tiger then itself, whereas we have several records and statements from biologists, that confirm that tigers can and do kill larger brown bears then themselves.

There's also not a single confirmed account, of a brown bear ever killing a healthy adult male tiger too.

Even the largest male brown bears out there, completely avoid and fear male tigers. I've not seen any evidence whatsoever, proving otherwise.

So Peter, with all due respect, I do think your kind of misinforming people, with saying that large male bears definately "dominate", when blatant evidence has shown that they completely avoid adult male tigers and never dare to usurp their kills.

Honestly, the reason why I think this has been a debate for many years, is because there's many Bearfanz and bear enthusiasts out there, who can't handle the fact that such a large and powerful animal like the brown bear gets dominated and regularly killed and eaten by tigers, but its just the truth.

I also thought you might want to see this video of John Vaillant also talking about the tigers dominance over the Russian grizzly:

Go to the 11:29 mark, and he's asked about tigers and big Russian bears/Grizzly bears, and he states the following: "The tiger has a inborn sense of total dominance over its domain. Russian brown bears are the equivalent of our Grizzly, the tiger attacks, kills and eats them on a regular basis, I've seen video of a tiger charging a helicopter. So they have this inborn sense that there's nothing out there, thats bigger and badder then me and they act on that":

In the same interview, he states that he talked to people, who have worked with tigers their whole life. So clearly, he was told that the tiger dominates the brown bear.

And Peter, if you disagree with anything I said, then could you post the evidence backing your claim, that would be great. Reply