ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)

[Apex Titan]

(06-23-2021, 12:03 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(06-22-2021, 10:05 PM)Apex Titan Wrote:

(06-22-2021, 09:48 PM)Shadow Wrote: What comes to Chlamid, Rachelle and Ochkarik, for me it´s already old news. What comes to Ochkarik, Batalov has told in past about it, how Ochkarik has killed (that odd translation "crush" is just expression, when some animals manages to kill other, nothing more) some black bears. It´s no news in that way, that tigers do kill also male black bears. News would be only if one day would be found a reliable case in which a tiger would have been confirmed to kill an adult male brown bear.

But contacting Batalov isn´t that easy at all. We had discussion during 2019, some more emails than those two and after that we haven´t discussed. Back then I had to wait 1-2 weeks before he replied and surprised me.

Now I don´t have time or interest to ask more  about this case because whatever he would say, it wouldn´t make these new cases reliable from my point of view. Same person can´t tell two different stories contradicting each others completely and stay credible. 

This is clear case for me. First there is information available from 2017-2018, then that personal communication. And now some newspaper articles with some stories, which don´t fit to earlier things. I think, that there is more than enough to make conclusions.

And what comes to that "ancient" discussion about bears and tigers and how their conflicts end up, I don´t involve to that discussion until something solid and new comes up, which I haven´t seen in years. So I leave that discussion to people who love to go same circle around time after time recycling old things over and over again.

I end this issue from my part here, I shared emails and that´s it. I don´t waste any more time to this topic.

If you don't want to continue the discussion then thats fine. But its a fact that Batalov personally told two different journalists that Ochkarik killed and ate Chlamid, and there's a reason for this. If only you would contact him again, send him those reports and ask him why he said that. It would clear things up and we can get to a conclusion.

Personally, I believe the tiger killed the huge male bear, why? because Chlamid completely vanished never to be seen again, around the same time Ochkarik appeared in the area to meet the tigress. Even Batalov reported in 2017, that Chlamid stopped pursuing the tigress because of the male tiger 'Ochkarik.'

Just think about it, and see if you would consider contacting Batalov again. This is a interesting case.

You can believe it of course, I'm not convinced. And why  Chlamid wasn't seen in that area anymore can be explained In many ways. That kind of speculation is endless swamp. 

Poachers, maybe he moved a few hundred km to mate and found a better place what comes to food. If there is bad year with berries for instance, bears start to search food sources and big dominant bear can take over some new area as his domain. Or he can be still there in the same area, just not seen by Batalov or someone else. Unless using carcasses to lure bears to certain places they usually avoid people. Many possibilities. Many people who spend time in the woods where bears live don´t see one during whole lifetime.

In Alaska for instance salmon rivers keep certain bears in same places year after year, but it's not quite the same with inland brown bears. 

One thing, people like Batalov don't report to journalists, they give interviews. Newspaper articles aren't reports. I've seen for instance several articles in which zoo director was asked about a brown bear In the zoo. And in several articles he was told to weight 1000 kg. When I asked directly from the zoo, they told that it was 590 kg in heaviest condition. Quite a different and that's why I don't take some newspaper articles alone as they would be always accurate. This is just the same, I have had direct contact to compare with some random articles. 

I hope that now it's clear how I see this and why. Now I really focus to other things.

Why are you so hesitant and unwilling to contact Batalov again? I don't understand. You don't wanna give his contact info, and yet you also won't contact him, why?

Batalov, even in the documentary, specifically mentioned that Ochkarik crushed and devoured a bear, to the point where he fattened up a lot. In several articles, it mentions that Ochkarik fattened up to the point that it shocked Batalov. Sounds like a large bear was killed and eaten by Ochkarik. I wanna know which species of bear this was?

Those were not "newspaper" articles, those were just articles published by Russian journalists who interviewed and received all their info from Batalov himself, personally. So its a fact that Batalov told them that Ochkarik killed Chlamid, confirmed by two different journalists. There's also a 3rd article reporting this case. How comes?

You had direct contact via email, NOT face-to-face, whereas two different journalists had face-to-face contact with Batalov and received their information from him, first-hand. Big difference.

Quote:Poachers, maybe he moved a few hundred km to mate and found a better place what comes to food. If there is bad year with berries for instance, bears start to search food sources and big dominant bear can take over some new area as his domain. Or he can be still there in the same area, just not seen by Batalov or someone else. Unless using carcasses to lure bears to certain places they usually avoid people. Many possibilities. Many people who spend time in the woods where bears live don´t see one during whole lifetime.

In Alaska for instance salmon rivers keep certain bears in same places year after year, but it's not quite the same with inland brown bears. 

This is pure speculation and guesswork. According to the actual report, Batalov and the hunting experts believe that the huge brown bear fled because of the tiger 'Ochkarik'.


"Hunting experts believe that a tigress with many children complained about the bear to the father of her children."

- Some time ago, she roared in a special way in the taiga, as far as we understand, she complained about the bear to the bespectacled tiger that walks nearby. He is the father of Rachelle's children, we have recorded several times that they meet regularly. And at the moment, the bear (we gave him the nickname Chlamyda, because he is incredibly huge) has moved away from her and is not pursuing her, ” Alexander Batalov, director of the Durminskoye forestry and hunting farm, told the Khabarovsk Krai Today news agency. 

https://www.todaykhv.ru/news/incident/9372/



Note, Batalov clearly stated "At that moment", which means that at that moment and time, when the tigress contacted the tiger 'Ochkarik', the big bear 'Chlamid' immediately stopped pursuing her and left the area. Do you see any obvious link between the two?

This makes sense too, because based off decades of scientific research and evidence, it shows that even very large male brown bears avoid adult male tigers, they only ( occasionally ) target tigresses. And Ochkarik is a very dominant male tiger that specializes in hunting and killing bears.


Based on the actual report, testimony from Batalov and tell-tale signs, it clearly indicates that Chlamid fled the area because of the tiger 'Ochkarik'. The tiger could have later hunted Chlamid down, killed and ate him. Reply