The size of the Barbary lion

[GuateGojira]

(09-21-2018, 09:44 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote: Like I said in "ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - B - THE LION (Panthera leo)", according to people like Sir Alfred Edward Pease, the Barbary lion was short at the shoulder, due to having short limbs, and consequently, its size wasn't necessarily greater than other lions, but it nevertheless got fat and heavy due to the abundance of livestock as prey:

Sources:
- Sir William Jardine, 1834: https://archive.org/stream/naturalistsli...0/mode/2up 
- Sir Alfred Edward Pease, 1914, who said that Barbary lions were 'enormous', not necessarily in terms of height, but in terms of weight, due to preying on abundant livestock, meaning that they were short and fat: https://archive.org/stream/bookoflion191...0/mode/2up 
- Nowell and Jackson, 1996, quoting Leyhausen (1975) in Page 37, who said that he and Hemmer identified the lions of Morocco's Rabat Zoo, also known as Temara Zoo, as having the characteristics of the Barbary lion, such as short legs: http://carnivoractionplans1.free.fr/wildcats.pdf 

Photo of a lion at Rabat Zoo by [i]Maroc-maroc.com[/i] (http://www.maroc-maroc.com/voirPhoto-72-28-place.html), notice how fat its belly is:  

*This image is copyright of its original author

Quick post:

1. About Sir William Jardine: In page 120 it shows the size of a captive Barbary lion (193 cm in head-body), is about the same than the figures of Brehm (190 cm in head-body), probably is the same source which may confirm that all the sizes and skulls known from Barbary lions are captive specimens. It doesn't say anyting about weights.

2. About Alfread Pease: In page 91 he expreses his "idea" that Barbary lions are (were) the biggest. In fact he says that he is "inclined to think" and based his statements in the prey base. However his statements are no different than those of Dunbar Brander and N. A. Baikov about the size of the Amur tigers, and we DO know what is the reality on this issue. Again, Pease do not show any information about the size, weight or anything, not even the prey base or anything to justify his conclusion. In fact, he relay in external testimonies and he says "if otherwise credible persons are to be believed" which looks more like a disclaimer than an asseveration.

3. About Nowell & Jackson: It mention what you say but also says that these characteristics are not "flawless". Again, there is no remark on the size and weight. Here is a good picture of a Rabatt Zoo lion, the archetype of the Barbary lion:

*This image is copyright of its original author

Interestingly it looks about the same than the captive Indian lions, showing that they are the same subspecies.

Conclusion:
There is no source stating any reliable weight of a Barbary lion, appart from the single records of 243 kg found by @Kingtheropod (as far I remember) and reported by Blakesley (1859). Appart from the testimony of Gerard (1856), nobody present a weight figures. In fact Yamaguchi & Hadanne (2002) doubt of this figures of 270-300 kg in his book as there is no evidence that those lions were actually weighed, even the figure of 243 kg of Blakesley (1859) may not qualify as "reliable" if we follow the process of scrutiny made by Slagth et al (2005) about the Amur tiger weights in old litterature.

It seems that the legendary size of the Amur tiger and the Barbary lions were, in fact, just myths repeated in litterature and internet with no real justification. However, at least in the case of the Amur tiger, we have a couple of pictures showing very large specimens. Check a couple of them:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

With this picures of tiger-human comparisons and the few reliable sizes-weights available, we can say that Amur tigers were at least of the size of large Bengal tigers, but in the side of Barbary lions, we don't have this. In fact the few pictures shown in this topic do not show any large lion, especifically those with humans on it, and the few figures of sizes and skulls that we have, which came from captive animals, shows that they were no larger than the other lion populations. Reply