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Desert Lions
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Lions generally have longer skulls than tigers but with his modest body measurements it just goes to show that a large head doesn't equal a large body.
But it seems the measurement of the lion's head could be over the curve measurement. The Duisburg Amur head measurement, AFAIK, is based on straight line measurement.
(01-18-2017, 07:11 PM)johnny rex Wrote: But it seems the measurement of the lion's head could be over the curve measurement. The Duisburg Amur head measurement, AFAIK, is based on straight line measurement. I'm not sure, you'd have to ask @peter or @GrizzlyClaws about that. I don't really see a lot of tiger head length measurements, just skull lengths, so I don't have much info to compare to these.  (01-18-2017, 12:17 PM)johnny rex Wrote:(08-20-2015, 11:46 PM)GuateGojira Wrote: The Hobatere Lion Research Project The measurements of these lions are "along the curves-following the contour of the body", check the photo of the measurements in action. As far I remember, according with Mazák (1983), the measurements reported by Dr W. Gewalt were made "between pegs", in this cause the measurements of the large male tiger at Duisburger Zoo. However, @Pckts is correct, the head of lions is longer (not wider) than the head of tigers at similar sizes, this because of the different configurations that they have. 
Guate is right: according to V. Mazak (1983), the Amur tiger from the Duisburg Zoo was measured 'between pegs' by Dr. Gewalt, whereas the desert lions were measured 'over curves'. It's also true that lions have absolutely and relatively longer skulls than tigers.
The other measurements in the table underline that there is no relation between head length and body length in big cats. Same for the relation between head length and skull circumference. One needs a complete picture to get to a conclusion on size. This why biologists need to take as much measurements as possible. The method most often used to measure big cats today ('over curves') is unreliable. Big cats should be measured in a straight line ('between pegs'). A curve measurement can be taken in different ways. If a lion is measured by four different people in this way, you will get four different results every time you try. Wild Amur tigers have a relatively long body. This, many think, is needed to preserve heat. Desert lions, most probably about similar in weight (not sure), seem to have a relatively short body, long limbs and long skulls. This could be an adaption to the conditions as well. I always thought that lions in the southwest (Etosha and Kalahari) and the southeast (Mocambique) were a bit larger than anywhere else, but Kitchener, who wrote that individual variation within a region is more pronounced than variation between local types (at the level of averages), might well be right. The most robust skulls I saw where from animals shot in the southeastern part of Africa. The longest skull I measured, however, belonged to a male captured in what is now Ethiopia. He died in the Amsterdam Zoo. V. Mazak measured many lion skulls. The longest and biggest of these belonged to Atlas lions, but everything else I have points in the direction of a moderately-sized local type. Atlas lions, however, could have had the biggest skulls for their size and they also seemed quite robust. The conditions in which they lived, to a degree, compared to the conditions in which the Kalahari lions live. Here's two very old pictures. The first lion is a captive adult male. The second is a captive subadult from the London Zoo (1896):  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author A century and a half ago, naturalists and hunters distinguished between many local types (subspecies). The information they collected, however, was sidelined later. Not saying it was a bit unfortunate, but it did result in a loss of information. A great pity. 
Some considerations on the subject.
The Desert Lion Conservation Project - http://www.desertlion.info/ is the only one to be authorized by the Government of Namibia to research, monitor and investigate the man / lion conflict in the area known as Kaokoland / Damaraland. This project does not have social media platforms, all information about the project made available to the public is on its website. Facebook that broadly advertises, advertises, and "responds to project information" is FAKE. I remember two occasions when the Desert Lion Project posted a note on its website explaining this, including warning that the information contained in this social media platform is distorting facts and provoking unnecessary conflicts. These platforms use data from the website, including radio telemetry information. The site http://www.desertlion.org/ is recent. With origins in the Netherlands, and it seems to me, I'm not sure, that it was written by the filmmakers of the film Vanishing Kings. Not in connection with the Desert Lion Project underway in Namibia for more than a decade. I do not know how to report your pretensions. Today, in practical terms it does not have any conservation participation. On its website the Desert Lion Conservation Project - http://www.desertlion.info/ provides a huge range of information on these lions - truly desert adapted. In its NEWS space, it is possible to follow every day's progress of the effectively monitored lions, where much information is made available to the public from year 2006 to date. With this it is possible to understand not only about the lions and the project, but also the geography, ecology and other social, economic and even political criteria. It makes it possible to understand in general terms the conservation policy implemented by the Government of Namibia. It is a very interesting reading, which can be done in chapters, providing an understanding not only regional. There is no sentimental appeal, they are practical approaches to approach, follow-up, monitoring and conservation. Below, some facts have occurred and very well reported on the website. 1. The investigation of the death of the lion "Miles": the elaboration of the incident is worthy of an animal CSI, a wealth of details, with chart of all that and how it happened. Excellent. 2. The fact that it occurred to the XPL-73 "Rosh" lion: hearing the nocturnal roar of a lion more than 40km away, the same - widely demonstrated by radiotelemetry - went straight to the lion. This fact has already been incorporated into the so-called "scientific" knowledge about the sound propagation of its roar, where in a National Geographic program this occurred. 3. The unbelievable lion XPL-68 "Terrace": After spending a few weeks at the mouth of the Uniab River, where a lion had not been seen for more than two decades, Terrace set off for Angola, crossing the Kunene River in a stretch of almost 80m (Terrace never saw a permanent river in its life, only ephemeral rivers, small streams of water and wells) remaining in Angola for 15 days and returning back to Namibia. This lion in 135 days covered a distance of more than 3,000km. On one occasion he walked from the Hoanib River to the Uniab River intermittently, uninterrupted, for a total distance of 72km, on a time walk from 10:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m., breaking all records. Note: the recently deceased Ugab XPL-98 Male was the son of XPL-68 - remained of his offspring XPL-99 - Gretzky. 4. The life of the five male lions nicknamed "The Five Musketeers": Their lives up to the age of 03 are featured in the movie "Vanishing Kings". The project reports the life events of these lions, it is a global effort of preservation among the many organizations involved in this mission. DESERT LION DESIGN + TOSCO + WILDERNESS SAFARIS + PUROS CONSERVANCY, IRDNC, MET, in an effort of constant daily monitoring, in which one perceives the ample effort to safeguard the life of all of them. The five lions came to "inhabit" an area of the river Ganamub, whose area has a good concentration of giraffes, but close to the villages Tomakas, Omiriu and Ondudupi, known for retaliation of lions. One has the opportunity to build what this pride represented. The fact of the murder of four of them does not diminish its importance. The website offers to know them, their personalities, hunting activity etc., is to talk about life! It is to know how they lived and not just how they died. The lions that inhabit the Hobatere concession area - adjacent to Etosha National Park, are not part of the lions monitored by the Desert Lions Conservation Project. Lions are inhabitants of semi-desert areas (semi-arid). They are not considered "adapted desert". Its radiocolares are identified by the HPL spelling; The ecology, climate and vegetation are different. Years ago, two males from this concession area headed west toward Damaraland; Radiocolars were inserted into both XPL 20 and XPL 21 - and became known as the Hobatere lions. This fact is very unique, which I know only happened this time. Today the Hobatere lions who have ventured west find a more challenging, more inhospitable landscape, and they stay out of the concession area on average for 1 to 3 days, returning to Hobatere. Already desert lions adapted in dispersion find in the soil of Etosha / Hobatere a more pleasant environment to live and this movement is well documented. The prey of the desert lions consist of: zebra, orix, springbok, ostrich, giraffe and very rarely elephants (their numbers in the region are very small). Unlike Etosha / Hobatere it has: eland, kudus and other antelopes. In all these years only a solitary Kudu, who was victimized by lions, was seen in Kaokoland / Damaraland. In terms of morphology, I can say that these lions are no bigger and smaller than the other lions, they are slender, muscular, resilient. Desert elephants have longer legs and wider cushions, lions do not have this kind of adaptation. The cardiorespiratory system of lions are the same as other lions. In terms of volume and weight, the heart of a lion is on average only 0.57% of its body weight. They are physiologically adapted. Who ever saw the SAN people hunt a Kudu or an Eland by pursuit ... following the prey for 8, 9, 10 hours until the animal falls from exhaustion? The SAN has lived in the Kalahari for more than 30,000 years. They have no morphology different from ours - long legs, flat feet, lungs and / or larger heart - it's all a matter of physiological adaptation. Adapted desert males are independent of females, spend weeks and even months without finding them. Females have up to 06 pups per litter and the pups' survival rate - contrary to the logic - is high. Their tolerance for lack of water is unbelievable, they pass relatively quietly when they are 8 to 12 days without food. Conflict to death among males is unusual. They are true survivors, they are admirable, unique animals. If anyone knows of any other lion conservation project that makes available so much information and updates to the public please inform me !!! (01-19-2017, 06:04 AM)peter Wrote: Guate is right: according to V. Mazak (1983), the Amur tiger from the Duisburg Zoo was measured 'between pegs' by Dr. Gewalt, whereas the desert lions were measured 'over curves'. It's also true that lions have absolutely and relatively longer skulls than tigers. So @peter , despite smaller in size than Southern lions such as Kruger lions, even Ethiophian lions which are smaller than Kruger lions can have similar sized skulls, correct? What species of lion that possesses the largest skull ever excluding prehistoric species? (01-20-2017, 10:06 PM)johnny rex Wrote:(01-19-2017, 06:04 AM)peter Wrote: Guate is right: according to V. Mazak (1983), the Amur tiger from the Duisburg Zoo was measured 'between pegs' by Dr. Gewalt, whereas the desert lions were measured 'over curves'. It's also true that lions have absolutely and relatively longer skulls than tigers. Yes. Some individuals from the northeastern part of Africa can have a skull similar in size to that of an average male from the southern part of Africa. The longest skull I measured was 408,00 mm. in greatest total length. The owner was captured in Abessinia and died in Artis Zoo (Amsterdam) in 1937. At the level of averages, however, things are different in that some regions produce larger skulls than others. Kruger lions top the list in most tables I saw, but lions in northern Africa, regarding greatest skull length, might have been very close. I'll post a table in the new thread on Atlas lions that was started today. 
Our Future Regal King of the Huab Desert Valley -only 3.4 years old.....
Spot the other lionesses next to him.... Credits to Inki Mandt  *This image is copyright of its original author
From Inki mandt
This is a sight of the Torra Concervancy's Lions - this particular pride has NO Dominant adult Reproductive Male anymore - this is a 3.5 year old male Both Dominant Males ,who used to roam this area are shot -one by a Hunter(xpl 35 - has been wounded and died a horrible death ..because hunter did not or could not follow ....and the previous Male before xpl 35 ,namely the Terrace Male xpl 68 shot in HWC CONFLICT The Ugab Male ,xpl 98 , the first litter of this pride ,who also has visiting this area( his birth place too) died because of Anthrax.a short time ago.....which is made public by MET today .....since his death 3rd of January........ All these Males have been part of the DLP research project and had Satellite collars..................... Further do we know that the core area of origin of these Lions is the Palmwag Concession where Angela and her sister originated from and for that matter the dead adult males xpl 68 and 35 ........one question now remains - why issuing a lion hunt permit in this Concervancy(torra Concervancy) and the targeted Male is actually a concession Male Lion where no hunting is allowed and has to be lured out via various methods .....is this ethical and sustainble?????  *This image is copyright of its original author Money talks u.u   *This image is copyright of its original author Twenty year old lion in the wild - Kgalagadi credit Safarilive
Wow, can't believe he is 20 living in such a harsh environment. He's obviously on his way out but what a story. Any more info on that guy?
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