Who is the "king" of tigers? - Bengal or Amur

[GrizzlyClaws]

(04-24-2014, 04:26 AM)'Pckts' Wrote: I would assume Polar bear claws are more closely related to Tiger claws than any other bear claw. The need to dig seems to take presedent for most other bear species, so there claws are geared towards that direction from what I have seen.

 

The polar bear uses their claws to grip on the seal and walrus' tough skin, they are definitely sharp like the big cat claws.

The brown bear uses their claws mostly for digging and scratching, they are longer, but also blunter.

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[Pckts]

Ya, similar to Sloth bears.
Black bears must have a mix of both so they can climb as well. Probably have more agile wrists as well to grip tree trunks from the sides. Reply

[GrizzlyClaws]

(04-24-2014, 04:39 AM)'Pckts' Wrote: Ya, similar to Sloth bears.
Black bears must have a mix of both so they can climb as well. Probably have more agile wrists as well to grip tree trunks from the sides.

 

Yep, blacky can have pretty sharp claws as well, but it is not used to penetrate into the hide of the big animals, but for climbing.

Overall, except the polar bear, most bears don't have the same function of claw as the big cats.
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[GuateGojira]

As far I know, only Mazák (1981) had measured the claws of the tiger. Apart from that, the only other measurements are those from Bone Clones and other molds.

http://www.boneclones.com/KO-071.html
Bone Clones specimen measure 3 1/4" (8.3 cm), but this is the measurement of the entire claw with bone, not the claw itself.

I am prety sure that Bengal and Amur tigers have the same claw length. The huge Ramsay tiger had a claw length of 3 inches (7.62 cm), probably over the curve. Sadly, it is not say which claw is this or if it is just an overall average of all claws.

Other interesting thing is that the Ramsay tiger have upper canines of 3 in (7.62 cm), taken to the gum line, as all the measurements were taken in the flesh of the animal. The circunference of the upper canines at the gum is also of 3 inches.
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[GrizzlyClaws]

(04-24-2014, 05:05 AM)'GuateGojira' Wrote: As far I know, only Mazák (1981) had measured the claws of the tiger. Apart from that, the only other measurements are those from Bone Clones and other molds.

http://www.boneclones.com/KO-071.html
Bone Clones specimen measure 3 1/4" (8.3 cm), but this is the measurement of the entire claw with bone, not the claw itself.

I am prety sure that Bengal and Amur tigers have the same claw length. The huge Ramsay tiger had a claw length of 3 inches (7.62 cm), probably over the curve. Sadly, it is not say which claw is this or if it is just an overall average of all claws.

Other interesting thing is that the Ramsay tiger have upper canines of 3 in (7.62 cm), taken to the gum line, as all the measurements were taken in the flesh of the animal. The circunference of the upper canines at the gum is also of 3 inches.
 

 

Mazak has mentioned the 100mm tiger claw, i wonder which impressive specimen he got from.

BTW, is the Ramsay tiger a Bengal or Amur? Is this a wild specimen? If so, he has surpassed Madla in the canines length. Reply

[GuateGojira]

The Ramsay tiger was a wild Bengal tiger hunted by Col. Ramsay in the late 19 century. Here are the measurements:

*This image is copyright of its original author

This is by far the largest tiger ever recorded, and although its total length was taken betwen pegs, I calculate that the head-body of this giant, between pegs, was of c.225 cm. It was estiamted to weight 616 lb (279 kg), as far I remember. It is larger, in all dimentions, than the giant tiger of Brander. [img]images/smilies/exclamation.gif[/img]
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[GrizzlyClaws]

(04-24-2014, 05:32 AM)'GuateGojira' Wrote: The Ramsay tiger was a wild Bengal tiger hunted by Col. Ramsay in the late 19 century. Here are the measurements:

*This image is copyright of its original author

This is by far the largest tiger ever recorded, and although its total length was taken betwen pegs, I calculate that the head-body of this giant, between pegs, was of c.225 cm. It was estiamted to weight 616 lb (279 kg), as far I remember. It is larger, in all dimentions, than the giant tiger of Brander. [img]images/smilies/exclamation.gif[/img]
 

 

Is this tiger canine record reliable enough to overwrite that of Madla? Reply

[GuateGojira]

I think that for comparison purposes 1 millimeter is completelly irrelevant. However, in the book of Thapar (2004), it say also 3 inches in the conversion. Check the image:

*This image is copyright of its original author

So, at the end, both records are equal: 7.5 cm = 3 inches. This is good, because now we have two records of Bengal tiger with canines of 7.5 cm (3 inches) in length from the tip to the gum. [img]images/smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
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[GrizzlyClaws]

(04-24-2014, 05:56 AM)'GuateGojira' Wrote: I think that for comparison purposes 1 millimeter is completelly irrelevant. However, in the book of Thapar (2004), it say also 3 inches in the conversion. Check the image:

*This image is copyright of its original author

So, at the end, both records are equal: 7.5 cm = 3 inches. This is good, because now we have two records of Bengal tiger with canines of 7.5 cm (3 inches) in length from the tip to the gum. [img]images/smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
 

 

Wonderful, and do you have the plan to make a formula sheet for the big cat canine record? Reply

[GuateGojira]

Sadly, no. The problem is that I don’t have much data about canines lengths related with other measurements. For example, I only have three wild tigers with its canine size and body measurements, while I have other three from captive Amur ones. So, my database is too small to even dare to make calculations. So I think that is better to leave it like that, for the moment.
 
Interestingly there is more data about lions in this field than tigers, not because scientists don’t take these measurements, but because they don’t publish it.
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[GrizzlyClaws]

(04-24-2014, 07:10 AM)'GuateGojira' Wrote: Sadly, no. The problem is that I don’t have much data about canines lengths related with other measurements. For example, I only have three wild tigers with its canine size and body measurements, while I have other three from captive Amur ones. So, my database is too small to even dare to make calculations. So I think that is better to leave it like that, for the moment.
 
Interestingly there is more data about lions in this field than tigers, not because scientists don’t take these measurements, but because they don’t publish it.
 

 

Well. just list whatever is available to you, since it is hard to gather all the scattered information together. Reply

[GuateGojira]

(04-24-2014, 09:06 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote: Well. just list whatever is available to you, since it is hard to gather all the scattered information together.

 

Ok, I will do it tomorrow, after all, it is not much. [img]images/smilies/sad.gif[/img]

Obviously the data from peter (talking about canines) will help too, although those measurements don't have, in most of the cases, body measurements, only skull ones.
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[GrizzlyClaws]

(04-24-2014, 12:14 PM)'GuateGojira' Wrote:

(04-24-2014, 09:06 AM)'GrizzlyClaws' Wrote: Well. just list whatever is available to you, since it is hard to gather all the scattered information together.


 

Ok, I will do it tomorrow, after all, it is not much. [img]images/smilies/sad.gif[/img]

Obviously the data from peter (talking about canines) will help too, although those measurements don't have, in most of the cases, body measurements, only skull ones.
 

 

Thanks a lot, just put the distinction between the measurement from the gumline and from the skull, wild specimens and captive specimens.

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[Pckts]

Strange that Siberians have larger canines in captivity but the 3 largest measaurement we have all belong to Bengals.

I would have to assume when measurements of claws are given, they probably measure the duclaw. Isn't the duclaw the largest and most leathal claw on a big cat? Reply

[TheLioness]

Yeah the dewclaw is the longest of the claws on big cats. Its the one that is mainly used for anchoring, the thumb so to say.

I would have to agree that claw data is going to be harder to come by, especually wild specimens.

For your chart Guate, if your doing a lion cart as well, I know you'll b doing a Siberian and Bengal tiger canine and claw chart, I'll let you know if I come across anything. Will you be doing wild and captive?

Here is info on wild lions.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&...eMhIx78AVw

Taken to gumline
Lioness Amy 9 years old - Upper left canine 5 cm, Upper right 4.4 cm, upper width 6.5 cm, lower left 3 cm, lower right 3.2 cm, lower width 5.5 cm.

Male Kip 6 years old - Upper left canine 5.2 cm, Upper right 5.4 cm, upper width 7.7 cm, lower left 4 cm, lower right 4 cm, lower width 6.8 cm.

Male Ambogga 6 years old - Upper left canine 5 cm, Upper right 5.8 cm, upper width 5.5 cm, lower left 4 cm, lower right 3.3 cm, lower width 4 cm.

Lioness Belta 3 years old - Upper left canine 4.6 cm, Upper right 4.7 cm, upper width 7 cm, lower left 3.5 cm, lower right 3.4 cm, lower width 5 cm. Reply