There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
--- Peter Broekhuijsen ---

  • 1 Vote(s) - 2 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Tigers have good endurance?

Finland Shadow Offline
Contributor
*****
#46
( This post was last modified: 08-06-2019, 12:34 AM by Shadow )

(08-05-2019, 11:11 PM)GuateGojira Wrote: I think I have the right to answer:

This is really stupid at this point, all this "drama" just for an statement that is only two lines is a  page in a book that deserves more reputation for all what it presents!

Now I see that the form of writing of @Shadow is always in this cold and somethimes harsh form, so I will take it like it is, and that will be all with him. Now, about your post @peter, I am in completelly dissagree and I am going to answer it in a personal message, just for you, the drama must stop!

Honestly I am tired of all this, I will get the book of Mr Thapar the next week probably, as delivers from USA to Guatemala are slow. Then I will try to clarify the case and that will be all.


Returning to the point of the post......

Now, to the other posters, read this page: http://www.ligerworld.com/speed-of-tiger.html

Now I remember where Mr Antle says that tigers reached the 80 kph. It was in a reality show from Animal Planet where they were searching the next TV "animal" presenter. The name of the show was "King of the Jungle", was hosted by Jeff Corwin, Nigel Marven was the judge and Mr Antle participated and shared its animals for the show (only the first season was broadcasted in Guatemala). If we belive in the link that I presented before (which I think is using real speed tests), then the highest speed reached for a tigress in Myrtle Beach Safari was of 47 miles per hour which is 75.6 kilometers per hour. That will explain where Mr Antle got the figure of "80". Actually it  was just an aproximation, but the real figure was actually less.

The link about the show: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_th...TV_series)

My conclution at this moment is that the two lines of Mr Thapar book are just a typo and that probably he was trying to say that are "60 kilometers an hour", which is more likelly for a tiger at full rush.

Edit: Just in case here is the link where it shows Mr Antle and the crew of the Tv show "King of the Jungle": http://www.tigerfriends.com/kingjungle.html

No hard feelings. We Finnish people aren´t known for small talk, I think. If you look at interviews of our Formula 1 driver Kimi Räikkönen, you get the picture, what I mean Wink  Even though he goes to extremes time to time. Combining different mentalities to certain kind of language barrier, when most people aren´t speaking English as native language, bigger or smaller misunderstandings do happen. But maybe in time less.
Reply

Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
Expert & Researcher
*****
#47

Ok, I have the book "Tiger, portrait of a predator" of Valmik Thapar. I have not read it completelly yet, but only the chapter about "Genghis, the master killer".

Sadly there is no information about the speed of the tiger attacks, it just says that it was very fast and that covered distances of over 150 meters running against the sambars in the water, but just that. Even then, it is a remarkable feat as tigers normally do not run such a distances. Now this technique was used only during the time that the dry season started and the water bodies were less and less, so sambar retreated to the lakes. Latter, in the peak of hot season the Genghis stoped his attacks as the distance between the grass and the lake was larger and the technique was no longer usefull. Interestingly, the success of this technique was high, with one kill in every five attacks! As far I know, the highest success reported for a tiger is of one kill per three attacks, and it was for a tigress in Pench NP.

The current quoted statement that tigers had a 5% or 10% os success are just mere guesses and like Dr Karanth says: "success ratios are likely to be strongly dependent on probabilities of encountering prey and, therefore, on prey densities". Also, contrary to predatores in the African savannah "it is difficult to observe and unbiased sample of hunts to reliable estimate hunting success for tigers". Dr Sunquist goes furter on his comments on those "guesses": "Regardless of how they are calculated, success rates are likely to vary as a function of prey densities, grouping patterns of prey species, changes in prey vulnerability, as well as differences in experience among individual tigers". So, the educated "guesses" of tiger success hunting vary from 5 to 50%, but they are unlikelly to be reliable do to the large variables and the only two specific tigers studied in India, as far I know, produced a success of 20% (Genghis) and 33% (Pench female) and just during that season.

So, in conclution, there is no "speed figures" in that chapter and I doubth that it will be in the rest of the book. My conclution is that the figures of "60 miles" is a typo and should be "60 kilometers" which is more in the range known and up to 75 km for a tigress in captivity.

Now, about the endurance (the main point of this topic), there is a good report from Genghis, that it was also filmed, as far I remember. It says that Genghis stoled the prey of the crocodiles many times, and in one case the tiger went to the water and smashed it with his forepaws. The tiger grab the carcase of a female sambar of at least 200 kg, the crocodiles must have pulled with all their might but Genghis paws were more powerfull, he had to swim at least 45 meters and still manage to keep a grip on the carcass. Thapat says that "while swiming he wrapped a paw around the sambar's neck and used the oterh paw to stroke the water. Once, for a moment, he disappeared under the water with the carcass but quickly surfaced again and powerfully stroked his way to dry land. An amazing feat."

There is no doubt that tigers have good endurance, but like any predator, specially the large ones, they decide when is "economic" to use it and when not.
1 user Likes GuateGojira's post
Reply

Finland Shadow Offline
Contributor
*****
#48

(08-20-2019, 12:01 AM)GuateGojira Wrote: Ok, I have the book "Tiger, portrait of a predator" of Valmik Thapar. I have not read it completelly yet, but only the chapter about "Genghis, the master killer".

Sadly there is no information about the speed of the tiger attacks, it just says that it was very fast and that covered distances of over 150 meters running against the sambars in the water, but just that. Even then, it is a remarkable feat as tigers normally do not run such a distances. Now this technique was used only during the time that the dry season started and the water bodies were less and less, so sambar retreated to the lakes. Latter, in the peak of hot season the Genghis stoped his attacks as the distance between the grass and the lake was larger and the technique was no longer usefull. Interestingly, the success of this technique was high, with one kill in every five attacks! As far I know, the highest success reported for a tiger is of one kill per three attacks, and it was for a tigress in Pench NP.

The current quoted statement that tigers had a 5% or 10% os success are just mere guesses and like Dr Karanth says: "success ratios are likely to be strongly dependent on probabilities of encountering prey and, therefore, on prey densities". Also, contrary to predatores in the African savannah "it is difficult to observe and unbiased sample of hunts to reliable estimate hunting success for tigers". Dr Sunquist goes furter on his comments on those "guesses": "Regardless of how they are calculated, success rates are likely to vary as a function of prey densities, grouping patterns of prey species, changes in prey vulnerability, as well as differences in experience among individual tigers". So, the educated "guesses" of tiger success hunting vary from 5 to 50%, but they are unlikelly to be reliable do to the large variables and the only two specific tigers studied in India, as far I know, produced a success of 20% (Genghis) and 33% (Pench female) and just during that season.

So, in conclution, there is no "speed figures" in that chapter and I doubth that it will be in the rest of the book. My conclution is that the figures of "60 miles" is a typo and should be "60 kilometers" which is more in the range known and up to 75 km for a tigress in captivity.

Now, about the endurance (the main point of this topic), there is a good report from Genghis, that it was also filmed, as far I remember. It says that Genghis stoled the prey of the crocodiles many times, and in one case the tiger went to the water and smashed it with his forepaws. The tiger grab the carcase of a female sambar of at least 200 kg, the crocodiles must have pulled with all their might but Genghis paws were more powerfull, he had to swim at least 45 meters and still manage to keep a grip on the carcass. Thapat says that "while swiming he wrapped a paw around the sambar's neck and used the oterh paw to stroke the water. Once, for a moment, he disappeared under the water with the carcass but quickly surfaced again and powerfully stroked his way to dry land. An amazing feat."

There is no doubt that tigers have good endurance, but like any predator, specially the large ones, they decide when is "economic" to use it and when not.

I just read something about success rates from Londolozi guide. He had also interesting points of views about that topic. It was more about leopards, but with remarks, which fit to all animals. I try to find that and post in some suitable thread. It is partially a line in water, when talking about success rates, maybe. Depending about it, that what is counted as attempt.
Reply

United States Pckts Offline
Bigcat Enthusiast
******
#49


*This image is copyright of its original author

He calls it stamina and in some regard it can be considered as such. Generally speaking a fighter can withstand more punishment in the ring when their stamina is good, but still a KO blow will be successful regardless of the shape the opponent is in if the spot is hit clean and generally something you don't see coming.
Reply

Bitishannah Offline
Member
**
#50

Dont lions have more stamina than tigers due to their larger lungs and nasal openings?
Reply

United States Pckts Offline
Bigcat Enthusiast
******
#51

(11-03-2022, 09:17 PM)Bitishannah Wrote: Dont lions have more stamina than tigers due to their larger lungs and nasal openings?

"Larger Lungs"
Would you like to show that data?
Reply

Bitishannah Offline
Member
**
#52

(11-03-2022, 09:29 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(11-03-2022, 09:17 PM)Bitishannah Wrote: Dont lions have more stamina than tigers due to their larger lungs and nasal openings?

"Larger Lungs"
Would you like to show that data?
I can't find it now but IIRC it was a poster named boldchamp who had those data. Also lions generally have larger nasal opening which means more stamina right?
Reply

United States Pckts Offline
Bigcat Enthusiast
******
#53

(11-03-2022, 09:55 PM)Bitishannah Wrote:
(11-03-2022, 09:29 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(11-03-2022, 09:17 PM)Bitishannah Wrote: Dont lions have more stamina than tigers due to their larger lungs and nasal openings?

"Larger Lungs"
Would you like to show that data?
I can't find it now but IIRC it was a poster named boldchamp who had those data. Also lions generally have larger nasal opening which means more stamina right?

So nothing of substance. 
Lions do have larger nasal openings, but if that contributes to better stamina is unknown. The formation of the opening and position of the it on the skull could play a part as well. Tigers have poor sense of smell which possibly could be the contributed to their smaller openings as well but nothing has been done in comparison of one to the other. Both aren't known for their stamina and no hunter/trainer has noted a difference between them. I've seen both sides speculated.
Reply






Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)

About Us
Go Social     Subscribe  

Welcome to WILDFACT forum, a website that focuses on sharing the joy that wildlife has on offer. We welcome all wildlife lovers to join us in sharing that joy. As a member you can share your research, knowledge and experience on animals with the community.
wildfact.com is intended to serve as an online resource for wildlife lovers of all skill levels from beginners to professionals and from all fields that belong to wildlife anyhow. Our focus area is wild animals from all over world. Content generated here will help showcase the work of wildlife experts and lovers to the world. We believe by the help of your informative article and content we will succeed to educate the world, how these beautiful animals are important to survival of all man kind.
Many thanks for visiting wildfact.com. We hope you will keep visiting wildfact regularly and will refer other members who have passion for wildlife.

Forum software by © MyBB