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The Mighty Mapogos
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@Tr1x24 Yes, that was exactly what happened. You say lions are unable to lead others? Contact call and lead them in a certain direction? If this wasn't a thing, coalitions and prides wouldn't exist, they can't magically decide all together where to go, they need at least one member to lead the way for the others to follow, otherwise they'd never be able to stay together and patrol together, one would always go in a different direction because they can't read minds.
And this is literally what rangers reported so idk why you're doubting it is a thing. Rasta didn't disappeared in Elephant Plains, that happened in July 9, all 5 of them were seen alive and well, roaring together at Leopard Hills 2 days later. There are evidences of him being alive until the very end of the month, PB shows up injured around 27-29 of that month. At the beginning of the month when Mapogos pushed east the Majingilanes were seen far from them, iirc there's even a report they retreated to Kruger. After Rasta died and PB was injured the Mapogo incursions ended and after Dreadlocks death at the end november they lacked the strength to challenge the Majingilane, they were fewer and older. But the western Mapogo had control over the Tsalala pride, Rob says so and there's video evidence of that, they lost Tsalala and Londolozi to the Majingilane. So even if we go by your argument that western Mapogos wouldn't help Mlowathi because it wasn't their territory, well, part of it was. The other Mapogos could very well have been with the Tsalala pride when Mr.T was attacked again at the end of June. Do you think if Imbali had showed up to chase DM and Talamatis from their kill again, but when when Mohawk was eating with them, Mohawk would be like "good luck bro, I'm sitting this one out"? They would obviously chase Imbali together. I never claimed split coalitions are fully working coalitions, I'm claiming that if given the opportunity, they will still fight together as long as they still have a bond. Had Mlowathi being smarter they'd have had retreated at the sound of Majingilanes roaring and go contact call other Mapogos west of them. Western Mapogos never controlled Styx pride or any female there, still we have footage of them far east teaming up with Mlowathi against them. Mlowathi had faced other males like Manyeletis, Toulons, and Gijimas who even ousted them from Djuma. The roars never bothered the other 4, "coincidentally" they only went east to fight when Mr.T showed up to summon them ( again, it was literally reported as that ), because this time Mr.T lost his entire territory and had no choice but return west and it clicked with him that the others could help against the Majingilanes, but they lost anyway and had to be content with the west.  
@Mapokser is there any evidence for what you are saying?
Did all Mapogos went east far as MalaMala and Nkorho (where KT was killed) to fight Majingilanes?? Or did they clash around central Sabi Sands, where was boundary between western Mapogos and Mluwatis? Tsalalas hanged in Londolozi, which was their boundary, western Mapogos didn't hang further east of that. As I said, there is definitely evidence that rest of Mapogos clashed with Majingilanes after KT death and when Majingilanes claimed Mluwatis territory, but I dont think that western Mapogos, lead by MrT, tried to return that territory back, as there was no reason for them to do it, as they didn't hang there. Im not sure about Tsalalas, but if western Mapogos did hang with them, and lost them to Majingilanes, thats about it for what western Mapogos fight for, and that was in central Sabi Sands, on their boundary.  (01-22-2023, 12:47 AM)afortich Wrote: It is believed that the Majingilane attacked PB but as far as recall I don't think there is evidence. However, please feel free to correct me. No evidence. As far sa i remember, he was found in southern portions of their territory, although he could just walk there.  (01-22-2023, 12:47 AM)afortich Wrote: It is believed that the Majingilane attacked PB, but as far as I recall, I don't think there is evidence of said attack. However, please feel free to correct me.He had 2 large wounds from what only could be other lion tooths on his back, which is prove he has been atacked by other lions and at that time in that arena there was no one other than Majingilanes who could have done such damage to PB. (01-22-2023, 01:20 AM)Potato Wrote:(01-22-2023, 12:47 AM)afortich Wrote: It is believed that the Majingilane attacked PB, but as far as I recall, I don't think there is evidence of said attack. However, please feel free to correct me.He had 2 large wounds from what only could be other lion tooths on his back, which is prove he has been atacked by other lions and at that time in that arena there was no one other than Majingilanes who could have done such damage to PB. Ok, with all the circumstantial evidence and the wounds consistent with lion bites, it is fair to conclude that the Majingilane were the attackers. Was it that the same attack when PB got the spine bended??
@Hairy tummy
@afortich At the end of July PB showed up in the West with a bent spine, a hole on his back, and marks of wounds on his hindlimbs, which clearly shows he was attacked by multiple lions. If this was the same fight Rasta died ( if he indeed was killed by lions ) or not, we don't know. But since they were clashing with the Majingilane and they were the only other territorial coalition there, it's likely they were the culprits. Filmed anywhere between July 30 to August 02, at 3:21 it shows PB's injuries. (01-22-2023, 12:46 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: @Mapokser is there any evidence for what you are saying? Idk why you are so against the idea Mr.T summoned them when this is exactly what it was reported: As soon as he returns, he joins up with all others: 2 July – Reports on the web suggest that Mohawk is not just with his three brothers but with the 4. This makes it 5 males in the west. And Londolozi assumes that they will fight off the Majingilane: A massive force and potentially enough to fight off the new coalition. Then, for the first time in many many months, all 5 move together onto Londolozi: 5 July– In the early hours of the night a lot of roaring could be heard north of the river in Marthly. A couple of guys went out at around 5am to investigate and were amazed to watch the 5 Mapogo moving through the clearings calling as they walked. They had come from the west and had moved onto Londolozi, the first time the brothers have been together as a unite at Londolozi for many many months. And Londolozi ends up by saying Mr.T summoned them: I also couldn’t help but notice that Mohawk was somewhat sidelined from the rest at the feeding frenzy. Could it be that he had gone west to summon the help of his brothers and in the process now takes on a slightly more submissive role? I guess we will have to watch this dynamic unfold as well. https://blog.londolozi.com/2010/07/06/li...te-part-2/ They didn't hear any Majingilane roars, there were no Majingilanes in Londolozi around these days as Londolozi makes no mentions of them, but mention all other lions there: The Tsalalas, the 2 Sparta Breakaways and their cubs, and the Mapogos. They weren't in Londolozi, never mind in Singita where the other Mapogos would have been able to hear roars. Simple put, Mr.T showed up, contact called, and led them east. The other Mapogos had no idea the Majingilane existed at that point. They went to Londolozi, roared, and returned West. Still, no signs of the Majingilane in Londolozi:  *This image is copyright of its original author Then tell me, how did Mapogos heard Majingilanes roaring east of them and went to investigate if there were no Majingilane roaring there? The fact is they didn't, they moved east, surprisingly, together, after so many months, because Mr.T summoned them, but once they couldn't find Majingilanes, they returned to the West. Later that month for one reason or another the Mapogos got awareness of the Majingilane and at least one clash happened which left PB injured. As for you your question of western Mapogos going far east, here 4 of them ( Makhulu, Dreadlocks, PB, and Mr.T ) at January 30th 2009 in Djuma: Isn't Djuma east enough? Are gou gonna say if Gijimas or the Manyeleti males showed up there the western Mapogos wouldn't engage because Djuma is as far as you get from the Western Sector? Mapogos in Mala Mala helping in the takeover of the Styx pride: August 2008 It seems the Mapogos found the Styx pride with their 11 cubs on Aug 10th. It was said the 5 male lions didn’t pay much attention to the lionesses until they noticed the cubs. On another Aug 2008 encounter between the Styx Pride and the Mapogos the Styx didn’t fare as well. The encounter was with 3 Mapogo males and the adult lionesses had an aggressive fight with them. https://wildearth.tv/2009/06/styx-pride-of-lions/ Video of 5 Mapogos attacking the Styx Pride in Mala Mala: So again, explain to me how are they not helping out the Mlowathi far east of their established western territory? It's very clear that the 5 Mapogos went east because Mr.T summoned them, and considering that at the end of may 5 Mapogos were together deep in the west, had the Mlowathi contact called and led the others east, they would follow. Western Mapogos didn't help against Manyeletis, Toulons, or Gijimas who even ousted Mlowathi from Djuma. They didn't help because Mlowathi never led them there and because they weren't visiting at the specific time the conflict, but as shown in the examples above, if they are either called or visiting, they will join the fray, they wouldn't be like "sorry Mlowathsi, but Mala Mala is not our territory so you may as well attack the Styx Pride alone", or "we heard no roars east of us, Mr.T, there're no lions east of Singita threatening us, so we won't follow, stop contact calling and moving east". Same with Avocas, as I mentioned before, had Imbali showed up the day Mohawk was eating with Talamatis and DM, both brothers would obviously chase the rival away, Mohawk wouldn't be like "not my territory, sorry".
@Mapokser still you didn't provide any evidence on my question, did they attacked Majingilanes east of Londolozi after KT death??
It doesn’t matter what happened in 2008, what you posted was before the split, when all Mapogos worked together there. Western Mapogos visit to Djuma in 2009 is also irrelevant, as Djuma was not territory on Mluwatis at that time either. Your point is, because Londolozi said Mr T summoned them. Yes, western Mapogos didn't help Mluwatis in any previous fight, just as they didnt with Majingilanes, thats what im saying, because they operate as different coalitions. Would they help them if they where near by? Prob, im not saying they wouldn't, but they where not, and i dont think that they tried to return that territory for Mr T, yet that clashes happened much closer and on boundary of western Mapogos. (01-22-2023, 11:31 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: @Mapokser still you didn't provide any evidence on my question, did they attacked Majingilanes east of Londolozi after KT death?? We don't know where they fought Majingilanes, we know is that they went to Londolozi because Mr.T summoned them, as it is reported, and that's what I claimed, that they could have summoned them to fight Majingilane like it actually happened. You're claiming they magically decided, after many many months, to move together onto Londolozi despite not hearing any roars and being rare for the other Mapogos to visit Tsalala pride ( it was rare even for Mlowathi to do so as pointed out by Mala Mala ), and in the rare occasions it happened, it was only Rasta showing up there. So yes, they went there because Mr.T summoned them to go fight the Majingilane. Djuma WAS territory of the Mlowathis, what are you talking about? This is january 2009, many months before Gijimas ousted them, coalition who they faced in january was 2 Manyeleti males, which they quickly defeated. How is that before the split? The split happens when Mlowathi left the core Mapogo territory in the West and didn't return anymore, Mala Mala was never territory of the western Mapogos, before the split their territory was Western Sector with Singita and "technically" western Londolozi but not really, very rarely one of them visited Tsalalas, their territory was the same PCM have today, after the split Mlowathi ventured further onto Londolozi and in Mala Mala. And Mlowathi was their own coalition for 2 years, clashes with Styx pride are from august 2008, after the split, there'd be no reason for any western Mapogo to be as far east as Mala Mala when their territory was in the West.  |
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