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The Mighty Mapogos
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 (05-06-2022, 07:57 AM)Mapokser Wrote: What are these examples you're talking about? I know that 2 of the Majins chased 2 Bboys, but is there any other instance where such a thing happened? Well I suppose there's the 2011 roaring competition with the Matimbas which I guess you can claim they "chased" the Matimbas away since it took place around Majingilane territory. Well, if they'd fight outnumbered, all 4 males wouldn't die of natural causes, would they? Im saying they didn't "avoid" clashes outnumbered , which is showns vs 5/6 Matimbas, 5 Bboys and 5 Selatis, only 3 coalitions they'd have to face which had "greater" numbers, they didnt "run away" from neither of those 3, they didnt get deafeated by neither of them. Idk why people are so "triggered" by this Majingilanes where fighting only fights they have better odds, this is the whole point of coalitions and thats how lions work. Theres nothing "unfair" about it. Just appreaciate all lions, it doesnt matter if they are Mapogos or Majingilanes, both where great. 
I sparked the storm...fires broke out, it boiled....
I left...gone with the wind but the thunder never stopped, the earth still shakes! Yours Makhulu https://www.facebook.com/LionsOfSabiSand...888108075/  (05-06-2022, 06:38 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(05-06-2022, 07:57 AM)Mapokser Wrote: What are these examples you're talking about? I know that 2 of the Majins chased 2 Bboys, but is there any other instance where such a thing happened? Well I suppose there's the 2011 roaring competition with the Matimbas which I guess you can claim they "chased" the Matimbas away since it took place around Majingilane territory. Well you seemed to have strongly implied they physically fought while outnumbered so that's why I asked. Fighting while being outnumbered isn't certain death, as we know lions have been able to survive or even defeat other males against numbers odds, it's very rare though. I don't desagree about them not avoiding ( at least not always ) the challenge of coalitions as big or bigger than them, and think it's quite a feat to be able to isolate rivals from other coalitions and killing them with their numbers since surely in the same way they 4v1 the first Selati the Selatis could have 5v1 one of them, or the same with the second Selati, the chances the 3 remaining bumped into a solo Majingilane existed. Hell the 5th died in a 1v2 ( I don't know if the claims that the others were close by but afraid to help are legit ). Some people getting triggered by them should be fairly obvious, no? They brutally killed many people's favorite lion ( 4v1 ) and ousted the other favorite one, then didn't replied Mapogos roaring when they returned, but might have killed Rasta too at the same time. After that they killed 2 Selatis, one in a 4v1 fight and the other IIRC in a 3v1 fight. So naturally some people will have a grudge against them and use their history of outnumbering their opponents to death to claim they were cowards. That's why some people have negative feelings towards them, though obviously I think it's completely unresonable to badmouth them for any of that, they were doing what they were supposed to do as lions and in their world concepts such as fair fights or honor don't exist. 
Brains will always eventually Conquer Braun. Look at earth, its ran by people with minds not the physically Tough Guys
Respect to the majingilane Respect to the mopogo (05-07-2022, 02:40 AM)Mapokser Wrote: After that they killed 2 Selatis, one in a 4v1 fight and the other IIRC in a 3v1 fight. They didn't kill Selati #3 in a 3 vs 1.. It was 4 vs 3, all Selatis and all Majingilanes where involved in a clash for few nights, but when they caught Selati #3 we dont know how many Majingilanes mauled him, nobody witnessed it. Also when first Selati was killed he didnt alone venture in Majingilanes territory, all 5 Selatis where there, but he got caught. You cant just look numbers when "killing" happened, you need to look numbers when clash started, "killing" is just an aftermath. Same as 3 Sand Rivers vs Majingilanes, all just mentioned that it was 3 Majingilanes caught 1 Sand River, but thats false. 3 Sand Rivers invaded Majingilanes territory and found and attacked 1 Majingilane alone (i think it was Hip Scar), he managed to get away and contact calls his brothers, Sand Rivers made mistake and stayed in Majingilanes territory, feeling victorius as they chased him, but Golde Mane and Scar Nose where not far away and immiditately reacted, joining HS and attacked 3 Sand River males, 2 Sand Rivers got away, 1 got caught, it was 3 vs3 clash, not 1vs3 as many people think, which is just an aftermath. (05-07-2022, 02:40 AM)Mapokser Wrote: they were doing what they were supposed to do as lions and in their world concepts such as fair fights or honor don't exist. Correct, we cant judge their actions thru moral principles of us humans and our society, they are animals for god sake, even us "intelligent" humans are killing ourselves every day in even more "inhuman" and "unfair" manner, yet we judge animals for being animals.  (05-07-2022, 01:07 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:Didn't know all Selatis were involved or the stuff with the Sand Rivers. I'd like to ask you to show me the reports, I want to read them, you can post them in the Majingilane thread if you find it's more appropriate, or give me the page where the reports are if you don't want to repost them.(05-07-2022, 02:40 AM)Mapokser Wrote: After that they killed 2 Selatis, one in a 4v1 fight and the other IIRC in a 3v1 fight.  (05-08-2022, 02:29 AM)Mapokser Wrote:(05-07-2022, 01:07 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:Didn't know all Selatis were involved or the stuff with the Sand Rivers. I'd like to ask you to show me the reports, I want to read them, you can post them in the Majingilane thread if you find it's more appropriate, or give me the page where the reports are if you don't want to repost them.(05-07-2022, 02:40 AM)Mapokser Wrote: After that they killed 2 Selatis, one in a 4v1 fight and the other IIRC in a 3v1 fight. There you have reports of MAjingilanes encounters with Selatis: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-lion-tales?page=3 and there encounter with Sand River males: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-lion-tales?page=10 
@Tr1x24 thank you for trying to educate less informed or experienced individuals about lion dynamics. I fully agree.
@Gabriele there are no "cowardly" lions. Lions act on instinct. Male lions have one goal, to spread and maintain their own genetics. They do this by eliminating the competition and taking over territory. They form coalitions in order to have an advantage over rivals so that they can indeed have a better chance to maintain dominance over a territory. Mapogo males did everything you chastise the Majingilane for doing. Mapogos attacked and killed many outnumbered rivals whether it was 2 vs 1, 4 vs 1, 6 vs 2 or 6 vs 1. They did what big coalitions do! Does it make them cowards? No! They also ate other lions after, and whilst killing them. In fact, in 2007 they were nicknamed "the cannibals" due to them eating other lions, sometimes who were not dead yet. It happens. They were definitely not the first or last to do such things! they were just amongst the two most documented groups in SS history to do so up to date. In terms of majingilane never facing anyone 1vs1. How do you know? You only see what you have seen online. We only hear about a small % of their daily lives and see less. If i remember correctly? Scarnose majingilane confronted 5 young 4 year old males by himself, after he had already confronted and chased away a Matshapiri male for the second time and taken the kambula females from him. Dark mane majingilane faced two matimba males by himself until he was saved by his brothers. One or two majingilane chased away three or four birmingham males. However, these events mean truly nothing in reality! It doesn't mean anyone is a "coward" or more "brave" than the other. Lions chase one another all the time. Male lions run away and chase one another back and forth all the time! I mentioned them in order to inforn you that them never facing another male 1 vs 1 is a meaningless and false statement. You claimed that the 5th majingilane was not a coward like his brothers. You do understand that the 5th maningilane first ran for his life right? Does that make him a coward first and then brave after? No. Because lions act on instinct! Cowardice cannot be used when talking about wild animals. They do not have "characteristics" in the same exact way we do. I promise you, after you follow lion dynamics for a long time, you will be less inclined to use words like "coward" when talking about Wild animals. We are so lucky to be able to follow part of their lives. It is best to respect and admire all coalitions even if you have your favourites. Be objective and less biased. At the very least, don't be disrespectful. Don't treat them like rival sport teams or pro wrestlers by picking sides and judging them based on fights they have or haven't had. Because you do not see them enough to make such conclusions. Plus, it is just wrong to do so imo. Btw, not that this means anything but mapogos were my favorite coalition going way back to when they first took over the Marthly pride. But i still love majingilanes. (05-08-2022, 05:16 AM)Mabingilane Wrote: Dark mane majingilane faced two matimba males by himself until he was saved by his brothers. Not quite. It's way more likely he confronted HB alone and then was saved. While HB was found only 300m away from 2 Majingilane post-fight, Ginger was many kilometers away and had no fresh wounds. HB had scratches and so did the Majingilane, but with only DM having serious wounds, I remember he had a hole on his jaw or something. There's no way Ginger would leave that confrontation without a single scratch and then somehow walked multiple kms alone while HB for some reason stayed behind just 300 meters away from the enemies. (05-08-2022, 05:16 AM)Mabingilane Wrote: One or two majingilane chased away three or four birmingham males. Wasn't it 2 Majingilane chasing 2 BBoys? If there's another instance besides that one, I'd like to add it to the other Majingilane stuff I'm gonna read. But for the Mapogos ganging on their enemies, yeah they did that which is a normal behavior from lions, but they also have chased many enemies in equal numbers or while outnumbered and more importantly they also engaged and won physical fights in such conditions, that's why people regard them as cool and more unique warriors. However, even then it doesn't free them from criticism, I've seen quite a bit of claims from either Mohawk or Mapogo haters that Mr.T was a coward because he didn't died with KT, and rather ran after trying to save his brother and giving up after starting to lose the fight, and that he was only aggressive towards cubs and females. And just a comment out of curiosity about the last fact, it's interesting how the status of a dominant male with a full mane ( though Mr.T's was small ) and more confidence/aggressiveness plays a big factor in the lion dynamics. When Mr.T attacks one of the Majins who were killing Shaka, the ranger says that when it seemed Mr.T might kill the younger lion, one of his brothers joined him and Mr.T starts losing the fight, then he escapes them somehow and runs. It was obvious that even in a 2v1 the Majins had a huge advantage ( hell from just a size point of view, any of the Majins was very likely larger than the Mlowathi ), but they were quite afraid of them to the point all 4 ran when KT alone charged. Some also claim the other 4 were aware the 5th was getting killed but were afraid of helping, but I have no idea if this is true or not. Generally dominant males will be able to chase multiple young nomads, but it's clear that if the young nomads were more confident, even just 2 would be enough to take on a dominant lion and probably win, even 2 aggressive lioness would give quite the trouble to a male, never mind young nomads, hell even subadults that are larger than lionesses would maybe be favorites against a single male if they were confident enough to gang up on him in a serious fight. (05-08-2022, 03:31 AM)Potato Wrote:(05-08-2022, 02:29 AM)Mapokser Wrote:(05-07-2022, 01:07 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:Didn't know all Selatis were involved or the stuff with the Sand Rivers. I'd like to ask you to show me the reports, I want to read them, you can post them in the Majingilane thread if you find it's more appropriate, or give me the page where the reports are if you don't want to repost them.(05-07-2022, 02:40 AM)Mapokser Wrote: After that they killed 2 Selatis, one in a 4v1 fight and the other IIRC in a 3v1 fight. Selatis are much more impressive than what I thought. At least from what I read in the first link, they were able to chase, defeat, or draw against the Majingilane in all their encounters even while injured or outnumbered. And indeed the second Selati killed by them was injured in a 4v1, he escaped alive somehow but died later on. Unlike what @Tr1x24 claimed that it was a 4v3 clash for a few nights. Down to 2, the Selatis gave up their territory. As for the first Selati killed, there's no info of that but regardless I think they weren't 4yo yet back then. But as for the Sand River Males, indeed the 3 of them were together and were chased by 3 Majingilane who eventually caught the one with the lesser mane who was mauled and then saved by elephants. (05-08-2022, 09:55 AM)Mapokser Wrote: And indeed the second Selati killed by them was injured in a 4v1, he escaped alive somehow but died later on. Unlike what @Tr1x24 claimed that it was a 4v3 clash for a few nights. Read again. He was attacked in 4 vs 1 in late March, in April he reunited with Selatis and was recovering well. Then from this we have almost whole 2 months of no reports, only to be reported in late May that 1 Selati is missing and that Selatis where defeated. That final clash was not documented there. All 3 Selatis where seen together few nights before the final Majingilane push, next days later 2 where seen together scattered and keeping low profile and Majingilanes with Othawa pride. Body of 3rd was found few days after. (05-08-2022, 08:36 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Generally dominant males will be able to chase multiple young nomads, but it's clear that if the young nomads were more confident, even just 2 would be enough to take on a dominant lion and probably win, even 2 aggressive lioness would give quite the trouble to a male, never mind young nomads, hell even subadults that are larger than lionesses would maybe be favorites against a single male if they were confident enough to gang up on him in a serious fight. Not exactly, i mean it depends, not all males are same in size and power. Watch this if you think that any 2 young males can kill adult male if they want : They are "tickling" the old guy, theres many example where young males attacked lone adult male and couldn't kill him. Very young males (usually younger then 3.5/4 yrs, depends as i said, not all individuals are the same) dont have the power to harm adult male, thats the reason why in the first place they run from them in those years. Lionesses are even weaker, lionesses are already dominated on kills by 2.5-3 yrs old young males. Subadults dont have the bite power to harm adult males, also 1 bite from adult male can brake their bones/spine easily. (05-08-2022, 12:03 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: He was attacked in 4 vs 1 in late March, in April he reunited with Selatis and was recovering well. I assumed he eventually died from his wounds despite the claims he was recovering well. He took a 4v1 beaten and was never saved, Majingilane just left him, I imagine thinking he was done for. But regardless, it's absurd to think he would be in any condition to do anything in the next clash considering how badly he was beaten, and since we have no report of the final clash, we can't say they clashed 4v3. If anything the most likely scenario is that the other 2 ran and the Selatis finished the other off since he couldn't keep up due to his wounds, but even then is speculation. (05-08-2022, 12:22 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: They are "tickling" the old guy Nah, they were beating him solidly despite him being way bigger. We just talked about one Selati walking away alive after getting destroyed by 4 prime and experienced Majingilane. Lions are very durable, it's not easy to kill one, but in a long fight, these 2 would be able to wear the bigger lion down, they lacked confidence and experience. Not saying they would win every time but at the very least they clearly had the upper hand. In the case of the Majingilane, they weren't 3yo and were bigger than the Mlowathi and despite I having no doubt Mr.T or KT would win 1v1, 2v1 there's no way. However it's like I said, a 1v2 likely wouldn't happen because the Majingilane would flee. Another example is when 3 Majingilane sons and one Avoca were eating together when suddenly the old Scarnose shows up and roars, 3 lions ran immediately and the forth soon follows. Not only the 3 Majin sons could have chased Avoca easily, but they could also have fought their old past-prime father, they even had big manes already. But the lack of experience and confidence is too much, they respect dominant males. |
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