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Talamati/Msuthu Pride

United States BA0701 Offline
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#1
( This post was last modified: 03-27-2024, 06:17 AM by BA0701 )

This thread is for posting Talamati Pride specific posts. This will include breakaway prides (until they've re-established themselves and received a name of their own, as well as nomadic males who have left the pride until they have met the same criteria.

Our hope is for these pride specific threads to become a central repository for information pertaining to specific prides, both historical and current, in the same vane as the coalition specific threads.
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Tonpa Offline
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#2

The "Darker Maned" Talamati still alone at Sabi Sabi. 

"After following up on some vultures sitting on bare trees, we found this male lion close to his male kudu kill which seemed to have been there a couple of days. Hyenas were also present, interested in the remains and ready to tuck in given the opportunity." 



*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author
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Tonpa Offline
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#3
( This post was last modified: 05-26-2022, 12:38 AM by Tonpa )

2/5 Talamati cubs. Looks like one from each litter
Photos by Brett Marneweck

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author
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Tonpa Offline
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#4

2/4 Young Talamati Lionesses 
Photo by Ricci Goldstein 


*This image is copyright of its original author
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Canada Mdz123 Offline
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#5

So @Tr1x24 did a recap of the history of Othawa pride, so I will do one for the Talamtis.

The Nkuhuma pride was formed in 2007 when a few lionesses, along with their cubs broke off from the Nkuhumas following the Mapogos took over from the old Manyeletis. They established territory north the them.

The pride then was taken over by Dozie and his partner, the old Nkuhumas:


*This image is copyright of its original author


Im not sure what happened to those cubs who fled with the lionesses. They were likely killed. Subsequently the old Nkuhumas began mating again, and the lionesses gave birth to new cubs, among these are Silver Eye and her sister, who are still alive today.

The pride moved into Kruger beginning in 2008 and got its name in 2011 after they were seen near Talamati Bushveld Camp. They then returned to Sabi Sands, but without Dozie.

With no dominant male, they quickly were taken other by the famous 6 Matimba males, who sired a lot of cubs with the females. Silver eye and her sister, were also approaching oestrus so the new males didnt chase them out.

Silver Eye with Ndhuna:

*This image is copyright of its original author


They would mate and give birth to new cubs. 

Only one Matimba daughter from Talamati pride is alive nowadays, she is currently with S8 male.

The Matimba son from the pride was born in 2012, he would leave after the Bboys chased out the Matimba from northern SS. He would go on to form a coalition with 3 Unrelated males (includes 3Tooth Tsalala) to become the DeLaporte males. He disappeared in 2020. 

The Talamati male:

*This image is copyright of its original author


As I said before, the S. Matimbas were chased out by Bboys in mid 2015. Chaos ensued, although BBoys didnt take over Talamatis at the end, it was the 2 Selati boys who came and took the pride over. They recently suffered a heavy defeat against Majingilane males and lost their territory. They became nomadic and moved north to find the lionesses. 

The 2 Selatis sired at least 8 cubs with 5 females, 4 of them would reach adulthood. 

The beautiful Selatis: 

*This image is copyright of its original author


These 4 cubs who reached adulthood were then 2 Talamati young males and the 2 youngest lionesses who are with S8 male.

In late 2017, both Selatis had passed away, and they were living without dominant males until the Northern Avocas muscled in. They chased out the 2 Selati sons who went nomadic. They were seen with 2 other males before dissapearing in 2020.

2 old females also died during the Selati’s reign, not sure if info is true tho.

Clearest image I can find of the 2 Talamti young males, credits to SCAR’s video:

*This image is copyright of its original author


Following the takeover by the N. Avocas, all 5 females, including the 2 young Selati sons  mated with them, and they soon gave birth to the cubs. By early 2020 6 female and 3 male subadults were alive. 1 male and 1 female died in 2021, leaving 2 males and 5 females.

In 2020, the pride shifted their territory south as their southern neighbors, the pride which they broke off from, the Nkuhumas, also moved south. It was also during this year when DM Avoca fully split from Blondie and Mohawk, leaving him as the sole protector of the pride.

In 2021, the S8/Imabli male, dominant over Imbali pride, challenged DM for the pride. He managed to steal 3 lionesses (the sole surviving Matimba daughter and the 2 Selati daughters). He mated with them and 2 of them gave birth to 5 cubs. Thus, a breakaway was permanently formed.

S8 male with a Talamati girl:


*This image is copyright of its original author


In the core pride, which currently consists of the 8 cubs and the 2 old females, things are also not going too well. The were seen in Singita, far from their normal territory. DM also got lost and was seen in Sabi Sabi.

He managed to rejoin the main pride. This wasn't the case for 1/2 Young males, who is still lost and was seen in Sabi Sabi.



Please correct me if any of you see any mistakes or has more info.
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Tr1x24 Offline
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#6

(05-26-2022, 07:43 AM)Mdz123 Wrote: The pride then was taken over by Dozie and his partner, the old Nkuhumas:

They run away with Dozie, Blondie was killed by Mapogos. 

(05-26-2022, 07:43 AM)Mdz123 Wrote: Im not sure what happened to those cubs who fled with the lionesses. They were likely killed. Subsequently the old Nkuhumas began mating again, and the lionesses gave birth to new cubs, among these are Silver Eye and her sister, who are still alive today.

Its not known if Silver Eye and her sister was one of those cubs who run away from Mapogos, or if they where born shortly after in the north.

(05-26-2022, 07:43 AM)Mdz123 Wrote: The Matimba son from the pride was born in 2012, he would leave after the Bboys chased out the Matimba from northern SS. He would go on to form a coalition with 3 Unrelated males (includes 3Tooth Tsalala) to become the DeLaporte males. He disappeared in 2020. 

There where 3 young Talamatis sired by Matimbas, DeLaporte and his brother stayed together and moved into Kruger, brother disappeared in 2017, DeLaporte then in 2019 formed DeLaporte coalition. 

3rd Dark Maned male went with 2 Mhangenis, but he split, he was last seen in 2019 roaming alone as nomad. 

(05-26-2022, 07:43 AM)Mdz123 Wrote: In the core pride, which currently consists of the 8 cubs and the 2 old females, things are also not going too well. The were seen in Singita, far from their normal territory. DM also got lost and was seen in Sabi Sabi.

In that gruop theres currently 1 old female, 4 sub females (there where 5 but 1 was killed by Plains Camp males recently, snip tailed one) and 2 young males.

Silver Eye is on her own. 

Talamati breakaway is currently 3 adult females (1 Matimba daughter and 2 Selatis) and 5 cubs.
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Poland Potato Offline
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#7

(05-26-2022, 11:23 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Its not known if Silver Eye and her sister was one of those cubs who run away from Mapogos, or if they where born shortly after in the north.
Yeah, definitelly not all the cubs have been killed. Also if it would be such case the the next generation would be born around late 2008 at best and if that would have been the case then Silver Eye wouldn't be old enough to mate with Matimbas in 2011
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United States BA0701 Offline
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#8

From @EverseenSA , the Talamatis on a buffalo kill.




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Tonpa Offline
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#9
( This post was last modified: 05-27-2022, 01:14 AM by Tonpa )

Talamatis and DM back on Djuma this morning






Cedric said 7 including DM, so 4 young girls, 1 older lioness, 1 male and DM
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United Kingdom Mabingilane Offline
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#10

If there were 6 female subs in total and one was killed by PC Males, what happened to the other one before that? 

Also, how did the one talamati sub adult male die?
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Tonpa Offline
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(05-27-2022, 01:26 AM)Mabingilane Wrote: If there were 6 female subs in total and one was killed by PC Males, what happened to the other one before that? 

Also, how did the one talamati sub adult male die?

We don't know unfortunately. She disappeared sometime March-April 2021 I think. The S8 Male and the Imbali Pride had started to come into the Sabi Sands around that time, it's possible they had some role but we'll never know. 


The male also disappeared via unknown causes, I think around October-November 2021
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United Kingdom Mabingilane Offline
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#12

@Tonpa  thank you very much! 


So now only 4 females and 2 males remaining. Very sad.
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Tr1x24 Offline
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(05-27-2022, 01:37 AM)Mabingilane Wrote: @Tonpa  thank you very much! 


So now only 4 females and 2 males remaining. Very sad.

Lets hope that Dark Maned young male returns back north and find them. These 2 look very promising, so would be shame they dont find each others.
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Tr1x24 Offline
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#14

Lone Dark Mane young male :

Photo credits : ryan_lenhoff_photography


*This image is copyright of its original author
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RookiePundit Offline
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#15

(05-27-2022, 01:26 AM)Mabingilane Wrote: If there were 6 female subs in total and one was killed by PC Males, what happened to the other one before that? 

Also, how did the one talamati sub adult male die?

One of the young males stuck to his sister (similarly his presumed father Dark Mane allegedly was bonded more with his littermate sister than the other two would be Northern Avocas to soem extent) with sightings of them hangoing out on their own nearby but not with the main group. One day in later 2021 they simply stopped bein seen and no info afaik about what happened to them they disappeared and while we don't know their fate it is likely they are not alive anymore, but sometimes individuals reappear elsewhere out of the blue.

Another young female was killed this year by Plain Camp males, the one with the snipped tail who had a history of leg issues, so perhaps she was not as quick as the others to escape, but that would be a speculation. Talamatis (the sub-adult group, the main group I guess, although the breakaway with Imable males has more adults) wandered a lot suddenly recently mostly in western direction that's how they even got into area to encounter Plain Camp males in the first place.
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