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Size comparisons

Virgin Islands, U.S. Rage2277 Offline
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brown and black bears
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Russian Federation AlexE Offline
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Big skull of a lynx like a skull of a cougar


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India Rishi Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-02-2018, 06:25 AM by Rishi )

@Wolverine @Pckts @Vegeta San

A gaur's neck & throat looked kinda thin to me too, especially when you're comparing it to its body. But compared to neck of buffaloes etc. that may not be the case. The gaurs body shape is primarily responsible for this illusion.
The gaurs crown is very high between the horns & just after the neck ends, there is a massive muscular hump, giving the quite robust neck in bulls an unimpressive look. The skin-flap below their chest only amplifies it...

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But that is not the case for cape buffaloes. Their body doesn't look so front heavy making the thick & robust neck stand out. Like in this bull.
©Brian Cohen.

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But when i "gaur-ify" the animals' physique (hump didn't fit) then it has a similar effect.

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Any difference in thickness of neck, if it exists, can only be confirmed by someone who has seen similar specimens in both. 
Still if you resize images to an estimated size parity then they look very similar.

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Size difference in Water buffalo & cape buffalo is the most debatable. Visibly, there is not much stark difference other than the shape of their horns. 
Wiki says: 
They rank alongside the gaur as the heaviest living wild bovid species, as both attain similar average if not maximum weights, although, with their stockier, shorter-legged frame, wild water buffalo are somewhat less in length and height than the gaur.


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Switzerland Spalea Offline
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@Rishi @Pckts @Jimmy @Vegeta San

About #153: I don't know if this can affect the nature of the animal, but after having seen the Jimmy's video at:

https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-african...8#pid58958  

At #7. So this one:





I find that the gaur's face is much more sweet, almost delicate in comparaison with, for example, the African buffalo that looks like a beast, a bully. As concerns the female we could compare with a (big) domestic cow.
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Jimmy Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-01-2018, 06:48 PM by Jimmy )

@Rishi good editing and analysis ^ you have made. u could have also created a loose dewlap for cape. ...anyway, So for gaur there are basically four things 1)Head crown 2)steep hump 3)Dewlap and also usually 4)small beared that creates an illusion of a "thinned out neck" in between them. I made this for size comparision just visually. i think like their body design and variation among different bovine species, cape buffalo still has slightly larger neck at parity, bison is hard to predict although they appear to have the largest neck we don't exactly know how much is actually muscle and how much is obscured by it's skin folds or hair.

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I put a vertical line on the neck based on gaur's, cape's neck girth appers as large as gaur although it is a smaller animal-this again, the fold of the skin is clearly visible and in actual muscle anatomy would appear thinner than this.
@Spalea yeah maybe in your eyes to me cape appears more rugged with wrinkles all around and maybe buffaloe's habbit -wallowing, covered in mud etc, gaur's appear neat. check this out

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Canada Wolverine Away
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@Jimmy , you are real treasure of this forum. From your excellent images could in my opinion be made following conclusions:

-The neck of the cape buffalo is 9% thicker than the neck of gaur despite the fact that gaur is almost 30% more massive. In my monitor I measured the thikness exactly where you draw the lines - its 2,1-2,2 cm for the gaur, while for the cape buffalo is 2,3-2,4 cm. The difference of thikness - 0,2 cm = 9%. 

- On the base of images could be calculated that this 9% mean that the neck of the gaur is 4,7 cantimiters thinner in diameter than the neck of the gaur is its narrowest place. If we assume that your cape is 1,60 m tall, shoulder high is 70 mm in my monitor, than we make calculation 70:3 = 35, than 160:35= 4,7 cm. 

Are this almost 2 inches neck significant diference? Yes, I think. They could allow or not allow the jaws of the big cat (tiger or lion) to rich the traheya or artery of the herbivore or not.

Also here we forgot about females. Due to probably larger sexual dimorphism of the gaur for females the difference of the neck thickness is even larger. Its temptating to say that female gaur has a neck structure of large antelope despite the strong body. That's way in this video this adult female gaur is so easily strangulated by tiger:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMv9TtEjVRg

while lions despite the fact that sometimes they make throath strangulation of cape buffaloes in the majority of cases they prefer to suffocate the buffalo by getting its nose, the traheya is too deep in the flesh. Like here:




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Jimmy Offline
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(09-02-2018, 05:50 AM)Wolverine Wrote: @Jimmy , you are real treasure of this forum. From your excellent images could in my opinion be made following conclusions:

-The neck of the cape buffalo is 9% thicker than the neck of gaur despite the fact that gaur is almost 30% more massive. In my monitor I measured the thikness exactly where you draw the lines - its 2,1-2,2 cm for the gaur, while for the cape buffalo is 2,3-2,4 cm. The difference of thikness - 0,2 cm = 9%.
- On the base of images could be calculated that this 9% mean that the neck of the gaur is 4,7 cantimiters thinner in diameter than the neck of the gaur is its narrowest place. If we assume that your cape is 1,60 m tall, shoulder high is 70 mm in my monitor, than we make calculation 70:3 = 35, than 160:35= 4,7 cm.
well, thank you and i am glad you found what i did useful.
Ok, that might me correct, Maybe 1 or 2 inches bigger neck for cape buffalo, i believe like their body design there are bound to be some plus and minus body parts for every bovine-like hump, legs, agility, horn difference etc.  Like i said i think cape has larger neck at parity, in proportion to their body their neck does look thicker and i again think at averages they are quite similar-Cape buffalo has slightly loose skin, i read that the skin on their neck is some 2 inches thick than rest of the body. That is why actual muscle mass beneath the skin it should be similar to Gaur which visually show clear neck line apart from dewlap.
Wolverine Wrote:Are this almost 2 inches neck significant diference? Yes, I think. They could allow or not allow the jaws of the big cat (tiger or lion) to rich the traheya or artery of the herbivore or not.
Like i said cape has a thick skin fold, this is again to avert predation by neck hold, we don't know about gaur, visually they don't seem to have loose skin on their neck apart from dewlap. It seems the longer and robust canine of the tiger is built for this purpose but it's fraught with risk, without boss or larger horns gaur could show more flexibility. There will be other attributes to compensate for something it lacks when it means properly defending against it's primal enemy.


Wolverine Wrote:Also here we forgot about females. Due to probably larger sexual dimorphism of the gaur for females the difference of the neck thickness is even larger. Its temptating to say that female gaur has a neck structure of large antelope despite the strong body.
yes, in females i think one on one a large tiger seem to have an edge for sure, there is reason i think there aren't any herbivores on 500-600kgs range which is - no good for running nor for defending properly. Unless you live in herd like female gaurs... and protected by a herd bull.

Wolverine Wrote:while lions despite the fact that sometimes they make throath strangulation of cape buffaloes in the majority of cases they prefer to suffocate the buffalo by getting its nose, the traheya is too deep in the flesh.
Yeah, cats are amazingly adaptive, for gaurs they have to worry about one solitary cat where frontal attack is too risky for a cat, so there is limited neck protection, for capes they have to deal with group attacks has lower reaching horns, thick and wrinkley skin fold, proportionately thick neck for the job... .. and lions still figured out the exposed muzzle.
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India Rishi Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-02-2018, 08:46 AM by Rishi )

@Wolverine there's one important factor we've been kindof overlooking till now... That is most dewlaps of Cape Buffalo bulls start right below the chin & continue along the throat all the way to the chest, thus there no way to tell the true neck thickness from a broadside view...

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Other than having that flap in gaurs start from base of the neck, they have a much larger body too.

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In females however, it's much less complicated.

While the head:body ratio is still starkly different, much easier to compare the heads & necks. 
Only if their heads are of same size, buffaloes neck would be slightly "beefy", but nothing significant, none otherwise.

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Canada Wolverine Away
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At the spot where Jimmy drew the line looks like the dewlap has already finished, check the image; its beyond the chin. 
I don't know does every cape has a dewlap, its maybe like a men with beards, if its compulsory than have to be taken into account. Unfourtunately in our zoo we don't have nore capes nore gaurs otherwise I'll get a meterstick, that's the only 100% guarantee  Lol
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Canada Wolverine Away
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( This post was last modified: 09-02-2018, 12:16 PM by Wolverine )

@Jimmy , actually the loose skin if I'm not wrong is more typical for cow-like cattle, especially zebu, not for buffaloes. I doubt that gaur has no any loose skin. Check in Indian and Nepali villages - the cows neck is more relaxed around the neck than in buffalos. A lot of domestic cattle has a dewlap.
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Jimmy Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-02-2018, 01:01 PM by Rishi )

(09-02-2018, 11:57 AM)Wolverine Wrote: At the spot where Jimmy drew the line looks like the dewlap has already finished, check the image; its beyond the chin. I don't know does every cape has a dewlap, its maybe like a men with beards, if its compulsory than have to be taken into account. Unfourtunately in our zoo we don't have nore capes nore gaurs otherwise I'll get a meterstick, that's the only 100% guarantee  Lol

Of course it's different for every individual, degree may vary which is the reason why it is hard to know for sure without looking at the precise muscle anatomy, actually i had already told this before but nobody seem to notice, here is what i said

Quote:cape's neck girth appers as large as gaur although it is a smaller animal-this again, the fold of the skin(in cape) is clearly visible and in actual muscle anatomy would appear thinner than this

Wolverine Wrote:@Jimmy , actually the loose skin if I'm not wrong is more typical for cow-like cattle, especially zebu, not for buffaloes. I doubt that gaur has no any loose skin. Check in Indian and Nepali villages - the cows neck is more relaxed around the neck than in buffalos. A lot of domestic cattle has a dewlap

Yeah they are typical of cattle but it's slitly different than gaur's, and they are different (like bison and wisent) so will have structural difference and water buffalo are not cape they don't have any dewlaps waht so ever. In most gaurs the neckline is much clearly seen, in cape it's more rough and folded so it's hard to know. here are different variation of cape dewlap and there would be many in between them
this one has a more pendulous beard and creates illusion of a neck depression right behind it.

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another one without a beard
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this one with impressive dewlap

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again in here is a gaur with continuous dewlap from the beared that obscures the neckline

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Jimmy Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-02-2018, 07:31 PM by Jimmy )

Check out another visual comparision i just made

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the wild yak surprised me, the shoulder height of wild yak is given near to those of that of a gaur, in that scale the wild yak dwarfed every other so i had to lower it down to that of wild water buffalo, maybe the measurements given are not always factual.
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India brotherbear Offline
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Post #162; nice Jimmy.
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India Vegeta San Offline
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Jimmy Wrote:Check out another visual comparision i just made
Quote:
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the wild yak surprised me, the shoulder height of wild yak is given near to those of that of a gaur, in that scale the wild yak dwarfed every other so i had to lower it down to that of wild water buffalo, maybe the measurements given are not always factual.

Really nice comparison, Jimmy. But the gaur you used isn't that impressive of the species.
How about the gaur @Rishi used or this one for better comparison..
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India Rishi Offline
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( This post was last modified: 09-03-2018, 11:27 AM by Rishi )

Jimmy Wrote:Check out another visual comparision i just made

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the wild yak surprised me, the shoulder height of wild yak is given near to those of that of a gaur, in that scale the wild yak dwarfed every other so i had to lower it down to that of wild water buffalo, maybe the measurements given are not always factual.
Wild yaks do attain heights close to gaurs, as some males have massive humps. The one you used didn't & thus fits better scaled-down to current size. This one checking out a domestic cow got it...

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While you're at it, why not add this big guy & complete the set...
©Milo Burcham

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The Asiatic buffalo is postured differently from rest though. I have a proper broadside photo that you could use if you like...

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(09-02-2018, 09:11 PM)Vegeta San Wrote: Really nice comparison, Jimmy. But the gaur you used isn't that impressive of the species.
How about the gaur @Rishi used or this one for better comparison..
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Then he have to find pictures of all the species in same position. Head raised or lowered gaurs' neck look a lot different due to it being very short.

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For this kind of pictures above-average specimens are ideal.
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