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Size comparisons
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 (04-14-2022, 01:39 PM)Hello Wrote:(04-13-2022, 08:29 PM)Hello Wrote:Yes, unrealistic, only to show how impressive is the artwork and a scale for amazement. Almost 900 lbs and 4 ft is realistic ,if not the largest. No idea about the largest skull? I believe they in general had smaller skulls than lions. for your information the largest skull of smilodon populator measures 392 mm, which is smaller than the largest skulls of modern lions and no the proportions are not at all realistic, the head is too large, the neck and the body are too short and above all he has an excessive size, even Kodiak bears are not that size.  *This image is copyright of its original author here is a more realistic comparison based on a real skeleton of smilodon populator. https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-smilodo...-a-species  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
  (04-13-2022, 11:28 PM)Mwarcaar Wrote: The size of this smilodon populator is too exaggerated. In Facts smilodons (populator or fatalis) have a smaller head than the modern lion, whether in average or maximum size. This smilodon has a head that is almost twice that of a lion, which is completely unrealistic. As Hello says, the image is beautifull and informative, but just like you say, there are a couple of inaccuracies. For example, I found the webpage of the artist and he shows that they used the skeleton of a Smilodon fatalis and escalated it, apparently, to match the size of the Smilodon populator skull MNHN-P 957 from Uruguay and that is how they calculated the overall body size, but the fact is that both animals had different proportions. This image (Smilodon from "randomdinos") shows a better comparison between the specimen MNHN-P 957 (escaled to the skull) and the biggest Bengal tiger ever recorded "between pegs" (Brander, 1927):  *This image is copyright of its original author Tiger skull is of 383 mm while the Smilodon populator skull is of 392 mm. Now, although the skull of the lions are longer in GSL than those of any Smilodon species, the massiveness of the last one is evident, check this comparative image:  *This image is copyright of its original author Using only verified skulls that were actually measured with standarized methods and that are fully described in litterature (no hunting records), we can see that the skull of Smilodon populator is bigger overall, alghouth the lion skull is longer in GSL and the tiger skull is wider in the zygomatic arches. And we still have the giant S. populator skull of Mendez (1933) that with 408.4 mm is even bigger than the skull from Uruguay. So yes, the image from NatGeo shows a slightly exagerated size for Smilodon populator, but even then is a good artistic draw. (04-15-2022, 01:13 AM)Mwarcaar Wrote: While the reconstruction of Smilodon populator seems accurate, the comparison with the lion is totally incorrect. No lion in history reached the same shoulder height of the S. populator, the tallest male was of 114 cm "between pegs" while the tallest S. populator was about 130 cm. Also, the head of the lion is reconstructed to large in comparison with S. populator, which had a bigger skull overall. Head-body length of the largest lion is of 218 cm "between pegs" while that of S. populator is reconstructed at 220 cm, so that point the image is accurate. (04-15-2022, 01:13 AM)Mwarcaar Wrote:I assume it is a cave lion (P atrox, P speleae, P fossilis)?(04-14-2022, 01:39 PM)Hello Wrote:(04-13-2022, 08:29 PM)Hello Wrote:Yes, unrealistic, only to show how impressive is the artwork and a scale for amazement. Almost 900 lbs and 4 ft is realistic ,if not the largest. No idea about the largest skull? I believe they in general had smaller skulls than lions. (03-20-2022, 11:23 PM)Twico5 Wrote: Cougar and big male jaguar from Mexico Is this from the wild? If so, I did not know these two species coexisted. Is there any recorded instances of Cougars and Jaguars interacting? (04-15-2022, 07:29 PM)LonePredator Wrote: Is this from the wild? If so, I did not know these two species coexisted. Is there any recorded instances of Cougars and Jaguars interacting? Yes, jaguar and cougars coexist in most of America, from southern Mexico to northern Argentina. In the areas where they coexist, jaguars are always bigger. When they interact, jaguars dominate thanks to its largest size. (04-15-2022, 08:48 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:(04-15-2022, 07:29 PM)LonePredator Wrote: Is this from the wild? If so, I did not know these two species coexisted. Is there any recorded instances of Cougars and Jaguars interacting? Ahh, that is what I expected. Jaguars are like mini Tigers. Lots of similarities with the short legs, robust bodies, both are very good swimmers too. And particularly their lifestyles. Don’t you think the Jaguars, the Sumatran Tigers and the Sundarban Tigers are so similar in terms of their lifestyles? I wonder what would happen in a hypothetical scenario if all three of them (Jaguar, Sundarban Tiger and Sumatran Tiger) live in the same habitat. Maybe they might hybridise and form a new species over thousands of years. At the same time they may wipe each other out due to close competition. But nevertheless, this seems like a very interesting scenario. (04-15-2022, 09:03 PM)LonePredator Wrote: Ahh, that is what I expected. Jaguars are like mini Tigers. Lots of similarities with the short legs, robust bodies, both are very good swimmers too. Sumatran tigers, actually, are not as aquatic as the Sundarbans tigers, they have swamps but most of its habitat is forest, while Sundarbans tigers need to swim daily and that is why are so different from any other tiger population. Both of them are close in body size and weight, although I still don't have skull measurements from Sundarbans tigers to compare. If these two population lived together they will definitelly mix as they are the same species, now which genetic is going to be the dominant is something that we can't know. About the jaguar, I have read about the agresiveness of this animal, but I think that some of them are probably just popular tales. We know that they have the strongest bite among cats, but that doesn't mean that they will use it in a fight against an unknown animal at the first oportunity. Pantanal jaguars are slightly smaller than Sundarbans or Sumatran tigers so they will have a chance to coexist with the small tigers, but any other jaguar population will be suppresed or dominated, like tigers do with leopards where they coexist. But all this is just speculation at the end. Now an hybrid between jaguar and tiger is highly unlikelly as hibrids do not have decendence, like the liger for example, where only the female can bread and that from a biological point of view is useless to sustain a species overall. (04-15-2022, 09:56 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:(04-15-2022, 09:03 PM)LonePredator Wrote: Ahh, that is what I expected. Jaguars are like mini Tigers. Lots of similarities with the short legs, robust bodies, both are very good swimmers too. I think I had read somewhere that Sumatran tigers swim into open seas but that may have been wrong or maybe it was a very rare occurrence. Anyway, are all subspecies/populations of Jaguars and Tigers equally adapted for an aquatic lifestyle? Like do all types of Tigers and Jaguars have webbed paws and other (if anymore exist) adaptations for an aquatic lifestyle or does it only exist in specific populations/subspecies? (04-15-2022, 10:12 PM)LonePredator Wrote: I think I had read somewhere that Sumatran tigers swim into open seas but that may have been wrong or maybe it was a very rare occurrence. Sumatran tigers swiming in open sea may be correct, the problem is that the distance between Sumatra and the other islands or mainland is too much so it will be necesary a very powerfull reason to obligate the tiger to do that. As far I remember, all tigers and jaguars are adapted for aquatic life with webed paws, actually they can't live without water, even the Caspian tigers ("desert tigers" for some people) lived only near the rivers (o yes, the maps that shows tigers in all the center of Asia are exagerations) and do not spread in the drier areas.  (04-15-2022, 08:48 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:(04-15-2022, 07:29 PM)LonePredator Wrote: Is this from the wild? If so, I did not know these two species coexisted. Is there any recorded instances of Cougars and Jaguars interacting? Jaguars are heavier in most places where they co-exist, except they co-exist in most of Central and South america where there are more freshwater ecosystems than anywhere else and where there are more freshwater fish and crocodillian species (the very prey jaguars have adapted to hunt) than anywhere else on earth.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Look at the red areas, these are the regions in which jaguars tend to be really large and pumas, smaller than jaguars. In western mexico there are 0 crocodillian species and very few freshwater ecosystems, it is dry and arid and both jaguars and pumas are hunting the same animals. Here are some hindfoot sizes of jaguars and pumas from there:  *This image is copyright of its original author Western mexico isnt the only region in which jaguars and pumas are hunting the same prey. I posted a study a while back that had weights of pumas killed in the Pampas region of argentinea. If i recall correctly there were 5 weights given and two of these weights were 107kg and 110kg. The average was over 90 kilograms for all male pumas included in the study. Now, its possible that jaguars here, or in other parts of northern argentinea have a similar or higher average weight. But considering that pumas have to be quite a bit taller and longer than jaguars in order to be the same weight, do you think these jaguars would appear to be bigger in size? No, they wouldn’t. Both jaguars and pumas in northern Argentinea primarily hunt domestic animals such as cattle, horses, sheep. The pantanal on the other hand shouldnt even be brought up anymore if you want to fairly compare jaguar and puma sizes. It is home to around 10 million yacare caiman. There are far less capybara, deer and whatever else pumas are hunting here. The pantanal is also home to some of largest cattle herds in the entire South America. Not to mention pumas here are rare. Yet in the size comparison posted above we see a female puma being close in height to a big male jaguar. All of this should prove that jaguars arent simply larger on their own. Also, regarding interactions between the two species, both have a mutual avoidance of each other.
sorry for the long message btw. this is just my take on puma and jaguar size differences
 (04-16-2022, 12:00 AM)Twico5 Wrote:(04-15-2022, 08:48 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:(04-15-2022, 07:29 PM)LonePredator Wrote: Is this from the wild? If so, I did not know these two species coexisted. Is there any recorded instances of Cougars and Jaguars interacting? Jaguars are hunted to hear extinction in Mexico/N. America. And the Pantanal has 1000s of Capybara, they are absolutely everywhere. And while there is a ton of cattle in Brazil, not all jaguars or puma are cattle killer. On top of that, it's not just S. America where Jaguar are larger than Puma, C. America as well. Costa Rica which doesn't have the caiman still produce much larger Jaguar than the Pumas you find there. Lastly, there is no mutual avoidance. Jaguar dominate and puma avoid, this goes for anywhere they are found together in any numbers. (03-25-2022, 08:59 PM)Twico5 Wrote: Leopard and brown bear at Great Himalayan National park This is a Himalayan Brown Bear, right? If that is an adult male then that is something hard to believe. The Leopard seems just as long as the bear. Are these bears the same size as the Asiatic Black Bears? Also, there are quite a few Bengal Tigers in Uttarakhand and Arunachal Pradesh (the northern areas of both are part of the of the Himalyan region). Is it possible that these Brown Bears also live with the Bengal Tigers in those areas and these bears possibly get eaten by these Bengal Tigers. I think I have read something about Bengal Tigers feeding on Black Bears. Is it possible that the Tigers are killing these Brown Bears as well? |
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