Overrated size of Munna aka Langda of Kanha National Park

[Pckts]

(07-18-2014, 07:18 PM)'Apollo' Wrote: Here is Munna with a tigress

*This image is copyright of its original author

Munna with cubs

*This image is copyright of its original author

Munna looking solid

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

 

What are you claiming you see in the other males w/females that you don't see with munna?
I just don't get what you're looking at? Reply

[Pckts]

(07-19-2014, 03:09 AM)'Apollo' Wrote: Hi @Roflcopters can you identify the tigers invovled in this fight at Tadoba on Nov 25th 2013

 

Looked like one had a throat hold on the other towards the end.


  Reply

[Apollo]

(07-19-2014, 03:13 AM)'Pckts' Wrote:

(07-19-2014, 03:09 AM)'Apollo' Wrote: Hi @Roflcopters can you identify the tigers invovled in this fight at Tadoba on Nov 25th 2013

 

Looked like one had a throat hold on the other towards the end.


 

 

Yeah one had the other pinned down with a throat or head hold.
The vid quality is too bad to identify the stripe pattern.

  Reply

[Pckts]

Here is more of what he had to say about Munna, Waghdoh and the eye witness who has seen both

1. 1.  What you said about Wagdoh is correct, but it's relative to his smaller frame. In absolute terms, Munna should still outsize Wagdoh in girth measurement since he's larger in dimension. One of the 2 individuals who have seen both Munna and Wagdoh run a lodge at Kanha for many years now and also visits tadoba quite often, he knows both parks like the back of his hand and have seen just about every tiger in both parks, including Pattewala male and Munna, and his comment was the kanha breed was the taller breed and more well-built breed, and of all the tigers he'd seen, Munna was a very huge fellow and his favorite in fact.Munna's head alone tells of his size. Wagdoh, Yeda Anna, and Gabbar are taller than shivaji, Bamera, Katezari etc, but they're shorter than Kanha tigers like Munna or Pattewala and Ranthambore tigers.Like · 7 mins · Edited
   2. 
      
      *This image is copyright of its original author
      Tigers of Kanha Re south tigers like Raja, I don't have high opinions of him since he's small-headed. A big tiger has big head, pure and simple. But another friend of mine who has been up and down across India to document tigers has seen the new backwater male who started to show up since early last year if I recall. I found backwater male smaller than T-5 tigress of Ranth, so I asked him whether it was the case. He said that full-grown backwater male was smaller than Machli, let alone T-5. He has also seen Bamera, Gabbar and Katezari male last year, and what he found was: Gabbar stands taller than Katezari male, while in length, Katezari male and gabbar are similar. Katezari male is a bit bulkier than Gabbar. Re Bamera and Gabbar, he said Gabbar is taller and longer. I like Gabbar's iron build, he's my favorite in Tadoba ATM
      

  Reply

[Pckts]

I told him that the smallest male weighed out of Ranthambhore was 170 kg, I believe it was the T12 male, but I forget. And I said that even that small of a male would still be a good sized female and backwater male certainly seems larger than 170kg. Unless Machli is/was a exceptionally large tigress. Which I know she was but never heard it was abnormally large, so 170-180kg for her would be reasonable. I also told him to check out the images of Raja walking infront of the jeep to see just how tall he is and his hunting videos to see how robust he is as well. So I don't necessarily agree with the large head = Large tiger theory. I told him that its usually body length that determines body mass. Reply

[tigerluver]

(07-19-2014, 03:25 AM)Pckts Wrote: I told him that the smallest male weighed out of Ranthambhore was 170 kg, I believe it was the T12 male, but I forget. And I said that even that small of a male would still be a good sized female and backwater male certainly seems larger than 170kg. Unless Machli is/was a exceptionally large tigress. Which I know she was but never heard it was abnormally large, so 170-180kg for her would be reasonable. I also told him to check out the images of Raja walking infront of the jeep to see just how tall he is and his hunting videos to see how robust he is as well. So I don't necessarily agree with the large head = Large tiger theory. I told him that its usually body length that determines body mass.

Spot on from what I've found. Yes, weight generally increases with skull size, but the variation in proportion is much greater compared to the length to weight proportions. Reply

[Roflcopters]

Quote:No picture you posted does anything to discredit Munna. He looks far more massive than saturn or katezari, that picture also shows katezari as being more massive but shorter than saturn.

Katezari was quiet a bit taller than Saturn at the shoulders and heavier so i don't know what set of pictures you've been looking at..

Quote:To try and say Munna is "overrated" is splitting hairs. His size is confirmed with females, jeeps and eye witness accounts

Munna and Bamera came to prominence around the same time frame and no even spit on Munna's size, Infact before Wagdoh appeared. everyone was singing the Bamera tune.. I wonder why [img]images/smilies/wink.gif[/img] 

I'm not interested in some petty Indianaturewatch/facebook eyewitness debate with you because you haven't got a clue, all you've been doing is just copy pasting material selectively and presenting it as proof. 

Also I've been following Munna since 2008 along with the help of few of my lovely people so i think i know what i'm talking about. 

http://animalvsanimal.yuku.com/topic/500...ional-Park

here's my topic on Munna from 2010. 


Also a lot of people have been claiming that Leopard face aka Gabbar is the biggest male but most people know he's infact the smallest male from Tadoba. Wagdoh, Katezari, Shivaji, Basant Bandhara & Saturn are all bigger than him but from "eyewitnesses" he's the biggest.. so should i take their words for it? you're just proving to me that you're nothing more than a follower, not capable of finding information by yourself and copy pasting material from others. 

Wait, what is the point of this debate now? we both agree that Wagdoh is the largest by far, I don't see any point of continuing.. I posted enough and wasted a lot of my time. I am out now, enjoy your weekend. [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]




  Reply

[Apollo]

(07-19-2014, 03:23 AM)'Pckts' Wrote: Here is more of what he had to say about Munna, Waghdoh and the eye witness who has seen both

1. 1.  What you said about Wagdoh is correct, but it's relative to his smaller frame. In absolute terms, Munna should still outsize Wagdoh in girth measurement since he's larger in dimension. One of the 2 individuals who have seen both Munna and Wagdoh run a lodge at Kanha for many years now and also visits tadoba quite often, he knows both parks like the back of his hand and have seen just about every tiger in both parks, including Pattewala male and Munna, and his comment was the kanha breed was the taller breed and more well-built breed, and of all the tigers he'd seen, Munna was a very huge fellow and his favorite in fact.Munna's head alone tells of his size. Wagdoh, Yeda Anna, and Gabbar are taller than shivaji, Bamera, Katezari etc, but they're shorter than Kanha tigers like Munna or Pattewala and Ranthambore tigers.Like · 7 mins · Edited
   2. 
      
      *This image is copyright of its original author
      Tigers of Kanha Re south tigers like Raja, I don't have high opinions of him since he's small-headed. A big tiger has big head, pure and simple. But another friend of mine who has been up and down across India to document tigers has seen the new backwater male who started to show up since early last year if I recall. I found backwater male smaller than T-5 tigress of Ranth, so I asked him whether it was the case. He said that full-grown backwater male was smaller than Machli, let alone T-5. He has also seen Bamera, Gabbar and Katezari male last year, and what he found was: Gabbar stands taller than Katezari male, while in length, Katezari male and gabbar are similar. Katezari male is a bit bulkier than Gabbar. Re Bamera and Gabbar, he said Gabbar is taller and longer. I like Gabbar's iron build, he's my favorite in Tadoba ATM
      

 

 

I think he was talking about none other than Ravi Naidu.
Ravi Naidu is wildlife photographer, Resort owner, Field worker and wildlife activist.
Check the link below

http://www.indianaturewatch.net/forum/pr...file&u=222


Regarding Machali, she should have definitely weighed much more than 170Kg in her prime.
She was a very big tigress.
Machali was bigger than her daughter Athara (T18) who weighed 170Kg at 3 years (watch Tiger Queen Documentary).
So Machali could have been around 180-200Kg. Reply

[Roflcopters]

(07-19-2014, 03:09 AM)'Apollo' Wrote: Hi @Roflcopters can you identify the tigers invovled in this fight at Tadoba on Nov 25th 2013

 

Leopard Face aka Gabbar and Saturn

*This image is copyright of its original author

the first picture - Gabbar is on the left and Saturn is on the right

second picture - Saturn knocked Gabbar to the ground

third picture - Gabbar is on top but it seems like Saturn is the one applying the bite ? not sure

*This image is copyright of its original author

Saturn's injuries from the fight, sadly people weren't able to get Leopard face's snaps but most believed Saturn had Leopard on the death-grip.

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Saturn on the left, Leopard face on the right.. 



on topic again 

*This image is copyright of its original author

Munna standing next to a tree, impressive height on him.. Picture credits to Rage [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Reply

[Apollo]

(07-19-2014, 03:51 AM)'Roflcopters' Wrote:

(07-19-2014, 03:09 AM)'Apollo' Wrote: Hi @Roflcopters can you identify the tigers invovled in this fight at Tadoba on Nov 25th 2013

 

Leopard Face aka Gabbar and Saturn

*This image is copyright of its original author

the first picture - Gabbar is on the left and Saturn is on the right

second picture - Saturn knocked Gabbar to the ground

third picture - Gabbar is on top but it seems like Saturn is the one applying the bite ? not sure

*This image is copyright of its original author

Saturn's injuries from the fight, sadly people weren't able to get Leopard face's snaps but most believed Saturn had Leopard on the death-grip.

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Saturn on the left, Leopard face on the right.. 




 

Thanks for the info Rofl [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img] Reply

[Pckts]

(07-19-2014, 03:40 AM)'Roflcopters' Wrote:

Quote:No picture you posted does anything to discredit Munna. He looks far more massive than saturn or katezari, that picture also shows katezari as being more massive but shorter than saturn.

Katezari was quiet a bit taller than Saturn at the shoulders and heavier so i don't know what set of pictures you've been looking at..

Quote:To try and say Munna is "overrated" is splitting hairs. His size is confirmed with females, jeeps and eye witness accounts

Munna and Bamera came to prominence around the same time frame and no even spit on Munna's size, Infact before Wagdoh appeared. everyone was singing the Bamera tune.. I wonder why  Everybody here is saying saturn looked taller, they can't tell them apart, etc...


My response and then his...

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[*]Not sure how I would feel about Machli being larger than the backwater male. The smallest male weighed at ranthambhore was 170kg which is still a good sized female. I believe the male was T12 (not positive) and the backwater male certainly looks larger than that. In regards to Raja, check out the image of him walking in front of the jeep, his shoulder height is very tall and he is obviously a bulky cat from the Gaur and domestic buffalo predation videos. Large heads don't always equal large tigers and vice versa. Usually more along the lines of body length to determine mass.Like · 55 mins · Edited
[*][img]https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-xap1/t1.0-1/p24x24/1888750_810731222276646_873200415_n.jpg" class="lozad max-img-size" alt="" title="">

*This image is copyright of its original author

Tigers of Kanha Machi being larger is in dimension, i.e. length and height. Being a male, small as he is frame-wise, he should be a thick guy and weighs somewhat heavy.Weights depend more on body girth than just pure height/length. I don't remember hearing about any male ranth tiger weighing 170 kg, except for a translocated 3 yr old tigress weighing 170 kg, she was the sister of T-17, T-18, and she's nowhere near the biggest tigress in Ranthambore. And I just include the info for your reference, since you seem to have some interest in tiger, not with the purpose of going into a great length discussion. I myself don't have much interest in tiger's weights posted on the internet or even on paper, unless all body measurements are included, which in most cases, are not.
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  Reply

[Pckts]

I also like this
"not capable of finding information my self"
hahah
Who is the one posting all of this information??
Thats right, Me. 
What are you posting?
Where are your accounts backing your claims, what data are you showing that states any of these tigers are larger than Munna.
Come on Copters, don't get juvenile because I don't agree with your claims.  Reply

[Apollo]

(07-19-2014, 03:43 AM)'Apollo' Wrote:

(07-19-2014, 03:23 AM)'Pckts' Wrote: Here is more of what he had to say about Munna, Waghdoh and the eye witness who has seen both

1. 1.  What you said about Wagdoh is correct, but it's relative to his smaller frame. In absolute terms, Munna should still outsize Wagdoh in girth measurement since he's larger in dimension. One of the 2 individuals who have seen both Munna and Wagdoh run a lodge at Kanha for many years now and also visits tadoba quite often, he knows both parks like the back of his hand and have seen just about every tiger in both parks, including Pattewala male and Munna, and his comment was the kanha breed was the taller breed and more well-built breed, and of all the tigers he'd seen, Munna was a very huge fellow and his favorite in fact.Munna's head alone tells of his size. Wagdoh, Yeda Anna, and Gabbar are taller than shivaji, Bamera, Katezari etc, but they're shorter than Kanha tigers like Munna or Pattewala and Ranthambore tigers.Like · 7 mins · Edited
   2. 
      
      *This image is copyright of its original author
      Tigers of Kanha Re south tigers like Raja, I don't have high opinions of him since he's small-headed. A big tiger has big head, pure and simple. But another friend of mine who has been up and down across India to document tigers has seen the new backwater male who started to show up since early last year if I recall. I found backwater male smaller than T-5 tigress of Ranth, so I asked him whether it was the case. He said that full-grown backwater male was smaller than Machli, let alone T-5. He has also seen Bamera, Gabbar and Katezari male last year, and what he found was: Gabbar stands taller than Katezari male, while in length, Katezari male and gabbar are similar. Katezari male is a bit bulkier than Gabbar. Re Bamera and Gabbar, he said Gabbar is taller and longer. I like Gabbar's iron build, he's my favorite in Tadoba ATM
      

 


 

I think he was talking about none other than Ravi Naidu.
Ravi Naidu is wildlife photographer, Resort owner, Field worker and wildlife activist.
Check the link below

http://www.indianaturewatch.net/forum/pr...file&u=222


Regarding Machali, she should have definitely weighed much more than 170Kg in her prime.
She was a very big tigress.
Machali was bigger than her daughter Athara (T18) who weighed 170Kg at 3 years (watch Tiger Queen Documentary).
So Machali could have been around 180-200Kg.

 

It was T12 (Guda male) which was weighed in at 170Kg.
He was weighed during the translocation when he was around 6 years old. Reply

[Pckts]

Machli could of been close to 200kg in her prime, very impressive. That would of been a record weight for a wild tigress, correct? Reply

[Pckts]

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[*]
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[*]Tigers of Kanha I appreciate your enthusiasm for tigers, but since this is a page dedicated to Kanha tigers, I don't wish to prolong the discussion, which is already off-topic. But re Ranthambore tigers, I'm sure the weight quoted for T-12 was incorrect, as T-18 was 170 kg when she was relocated, and she's about 1/2 the size of T-12 appearance-wise. A lot of people put irresponsible info on the internet and I can understand how you came across them. And I can point out to you one of the biggest sources of misinfo on tiger is a website called animalvsanimal.yuku.com where users constantly put in tiger photos without copyright acknowledgement and debate about individual tigers whom they know nothing about, like they know everything about them. Sites and people like that insult the tigers and are a disgrace IMO. In any case, no one knows about Ranthambore tigers better than Tiger trackers, who has documented just about all tigers of Ranth already and then some. If you have any question re Ranth tigers, including of T-18 and T-12, you can find tiger Trackers here:

https://www.facebook.com/tigertrackersindia?ref=br_tf

Cheers.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Tiger TrackersConservation activists, developers of Tiger monitoring technologies, wildlife photographers & tour operators to Ranthambhore, Tadoba & Bandhavgarh.Travel/Leisure: 5,208 like this 
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