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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)

United States Pckts Offline
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( This post was last modified: 06-26-2018, 05:57 AM by Pckts )

(06-26-2018, 05:53 AM)epaiva Wrote:
(06-26-2018, 05:10 AM)peter Wrote:
(06-25-2018, 08:27 PM)Rishi Wrote:
(06-23-2018, 10:51 PM)peter Wrote: Contact your man and ask him if he is ok with discussing the info he provided. Also ask him in what way the tiger was weighed. Field biologists, as far as I know, carry scales with a capacity of 500 or 600 pounds. This is why there's no accurate info on tigers bottoming these scales. While you at it, ask him if how and when the female in the photograph was weighed. If she was weighed, it's also likely she was measured. Anything known on her length? 

@Pckts hold it a few days though. His mother is presently hospitalised... It's not good time.

Sorry to hear about your mother, PC. Hope she will recover soon. Take your time and thanks for the video.

@Pckts
Hope your mother gets well soon
My mother is fine, @Rishi 
Was talking. About Wasif, the man who weighed the large tigers, his mother suffered a heart attack.
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Netherlands peter Offline
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( This post was last modified: 06-26-2018, 05:58 AM by peter )

(06-26-2018, 05:50 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(06-26-2018, 05:10 AM)peter Wrote:
(06-25-2018, 08:27 PM)Rishi Wrote:
(06-23-2018, 10:51 PM)peter Wrote: Contact your man and ask him if he is ok with discussing the info he provided. Also ask him in what way the tiger was weighed. Field biologists, as far as I know, carry scales with a capacity of 500 or 600 pounds. This is why there's no accurate info on tigers bottoming these scales. While you at it, ask him if how and when the female in the photograph was weighed. If she was weighed, it's also likely she was measured. Anything known on her length? 

@Pckts hold it a few days though. His mother is presently hospitalised... It's not good time.

Sorry to hear about your mother, PC. Hope she will recover soon. Take your time and thanks for the video.

Not my mother thank goodness, the man who’s provided us with all this info, Wasif.

Tell him we hope she will make a full recovery soon.
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India Rishi Offline
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(06-26-2018, 05:10 AM)peter Wrote:
(06-25-2018, 08:27 PM)Rishi Wrote:
(06-23-2018, 10:51 PM)peter Wrote: Contact your man and ask him if he is ok with discussing the info he provided. Also ask him in what way the tiger was weighed. Field biologists, as far as I know, carry scales with a capacity of 500 or 600 pounds. This is why there's no accurate info on tigers bottoming these scales. While you at it, ask him if how and when the female in the photograph was weighed. If she was weighed, it's also likely she was measured. Anything known on her length? 

@Pckts hold it a few days though. His mother is presently hospitalised... It's not good time.

Sorry to hear about your mother, PC. Hope she will recover soon. Take your time and thanks for the video.

No.. It's the mother of Wasif Jamshed.
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johnny rex Offline
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(06-26-2018, 05:05 AM)peter Wrote:
(06-25-2018, 02:52 PM)johnny rex Wrote:
(04-20-2018, 07:40 AM)peter Wrote: BETTY

- Thanks again for the info. The article is interesting. I found another some years ago. In that one, the death of the director of a private facility in France was discussed. He too was killed with a neck bite. The tigress was a large (over 200 kg. or 441 pounds) animal he knew well.   

- As to the skull and the scale in the photograph. As we agree on the scale, the conclusion I got to was confirmed: the skull of the 4-year old captive male Amur tiger from the Koln zoo shot in August 2012 has a greatest total length of about 430 mm., a rostrum width of at least 122 mm. and a zygomatic width of about 284,00 mm. It's unique in that it is the largest known skull of a male Amur tiger. By a margin, I should add. The photograph with the scale can be considered as proof. Many thanks on behalf of all interested in big cat skulls!

- Could you enlarge the scans in the previous post? On my screen, they are a bit small. 

- I will contact one of the writers in order to to measure the skull. If it's still there and they offer me the opportunity to measure and photograph the skull, we (WildFact) most definitely will publish a paper.

Are you sure you got the measurements accurate, @peter ? Because when I look at the pictures of Skull 133 which belonged to an old Amur tiger that was shot in a Belgium zoo somewhere in this thread which shows pictures with different angles, I got confusing measurements. That skull is supposed to be 368 mm in its greatest length but when I see the pictures from upper angle and from the side angle, we got different measurements which are erroneous. See below.
 

*This image is copyright of its original author
  

First pic, we got 36 and above centimeters measurement but in the second pic we got different results. In the second pic, it looks like that skull could be a record holder for the largest skull ever for a tiger but actually it isn't because it is the angle that is erroneous. Altai skull is from the above angle, how can we be sure that Altai's skull is indeed above 400 mm?

The measurements of the Belgium zoo tiger are accurate, Johnny. The one who photographed the skull wasn't quite able to overcome the angle problem.

The skull of the very large male Amur tiger from the Koln zoo was photographed by someone familiar with angles. All photographs in the article are excellent. The photographer was a real pro. The photograph showing the size of the skull also has a scale of 125 mm.:


*This image is copyright of its original author


The skull is enormous in nearly all respects. If the tiger would have been mature (he was only four years of age when he was shot), the zygomatic width no doubt would have been very close to 300 mm. 

The tiger was measured by 2 pathologists. In head and body, the tiger was 240 cm. The tail was 96,5 cm. The total length was 336,5 cm. I don't know if the tiger was measured 'over curves' or 'between pegs', but the German zoologists I know told me that big cats have to be measured in a straight line. For this reason, I assume the tiger was measured in that way.

The sheer size of the skull is an additional reason to assume the tiger was a very large animal. Although the relation between body size (total length and weight) and skull size (length and width) isn't very outspoken in tigers, it's there. Not all large tigers have large skulls, but the owner of a large skull almost always is a large male tiger.

There's no question that the male Amur tiger from the Koln zoo was a large individual with a very large head. Apart from the photograph below, I read comments of those who saw the tiger. I also saw a few videos. The tigress, far from small and older than the male tiger, was from France:


*This image is copyright of its original author

Sorry but isn't the second pic of Skull 133 from the Belgium zoo also shown with a 40+ cm ruler as a scale, @peter? The skull is actually only 368 mm/36 cm long as we know but when we look at the skull from top view with the horizontal 40+ cm ruler as a scale, it looks like the skull exceeded 40cm. What is the difference between the top view of Skull 133 and the pic of Altai's skull with 125mm scale?
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Netherlands peter Offline
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( This post was last modified: 06-26-2018, 09:35 PM by peter )

(06-26-2018, 01:02 PM)johnny rex Wrote:
(06-26-2018, 05:05 AM)peter Wrote:
(06-25-2018, 02:52 PM)johnny rex Wrote:
(04-20-2018, 07:40 AM)peter Wrote: BETTY

- Thanks again for the info. The article is interesting. I found another some years ago. In that one, the death of the director of a private facility in France was discussed. He too was killed with a neck bite. The tigress was a large (over 200 kg. or 441 pounds) animal he knew well.   

- As to the skull and the scale in the photograph. As we agree on the scale, the conclusion I got to was confirmed: the skull of the 4-year old captive male Amur tiger from the Koln zoo shot in August 2012 has a greatest total length of about 430 mm., a rostrum width of at least 122 mm. and a zygomatic width of about 284,00 mm. It's unique in that it is the largest known skull of a male Amur tiger. By a margin, I should add. The photograph with the scale can be considered as proof. Many thanks on behalf of all interested in big cat skulls!

- Could you enlarge the scans in the previous post? On my screen, they are a bit small. 

- I will contact one of the writers in order to to measure the skull. If it's still there and they offer me the opportunity to measure and photograph the skull, we (WildFact) most definitely will publish a paper.

Are you sure you got the measurements accurate, @peter ? Because when I look at the pictures of Skull 133 which belonged to an old Amur tiger that was shot in a Belgium zoo somewhere in this thread which shows pictures with different angles, I got confusing measurements. That skull is supposed to be 368 mm in its greatest length but when I see the pictures from upper angle and from the side angle, we got different measurements which are erroneous. See below.
 

*This image is copyright of its original author
  

First pic, we got 36 and above centimeters measurement but in the second pic we got different results. In the second pic, it looks like that skull could be a record holder for the largest skull ever for a tiger but actually it isn't because it is the angle that is erroneous. Altai skull is from the above angle, how can we be sure that Altai's skull is indeed above 400 mm?

The measurements of the Belgium zoo tiger are accurate, Johnny. The one who photographed the skull wasn't quite able to overcome the angle problem.

The skull of the very large male Amur tiger from the Koln zoo was photographed by someone familiar with angles. All photographs in the article are excellent. The photographer was a real pro. The photograph showing the size of the skull also has a scale of 125 mm.:


*This image is copyright of its original author


The skull is enormous in nearly all respects. If the tiger would have been mature (he was only four years of age when he was shot), the zygomatic width no doubt would have been very close to 300 mm. 

The tiger was measured by 2 pathologists. In head and body, the tiger was 240 cm. The tail was 96,5 cm. The total length was 336,5 cm. I don't know if the tiger was measured 'over curves' or 'between pegs', but the German zoologists I know told me that big cats are measured in a straight line as a general rule. For this reason, I assume the tiger was measured in that way.

The sheer size of the skull is an additional reason to assume the tiger was a very large animal. Although the relation between body size (total length and weight) and skull size (length and width) isn't very outspoken in tigers, it's there. Not all large tigers have large skulls, but the owner of a large skull almost always is a large male tiger.

There's no question that the male Amur tiger from the Koln zoo was a large individual with a very large head. Apart from the photograph below, I read comments of those who saw the tiger. I also saw a few videos. The tigress, far from small and older than the male tiger, was from France:


*This image is copyright of its original author

Sorry but isn't the second pic of Skull 133 from the Belgium zoo also shown with a 40+ cm ruler as a scale, @peter? The skull is actually only 368 mm/36 cm long as we know but when we look at the skull from top view with the horizontal 40+ cm ruler as a scale, it looks like the skull exceeded 40cm. What is the difference between the top view of Skull 133 and the pic of Altai's skull with 125mm scale?

The photographs of the skull of the Belgium zoo Amur tiger were made by the owner of the skull. He's a biologist, but not a photographer. A pro knows how to deal with angles, whereas an amateur doesn't.

The photograph below from an article recently discussed in this thread was made by a pro as well. It shows the skull of a very old captive male Amur tiger from the Hamamatsu zoo. The article was discussed on this thread not so long ago. When you use the scale on the photograph, you'll see that the difference between the real greatest length of the skull (380 mm.) and the length of the skull according to the scale in the photograph is close to zero:


*This image is copyright of its original author
    

Today, most of us have mobile phones with a camera. The result is a tsunami of photographs and videos. I'm not saying that all photographs are bad, but there's quite a difference between a professional photographer and an amateur. An amateur needs an hour or so to photograph 50 big cat skulls from different angles. A professional needs a day or more. When I was in the Naturalis Natural History Museum in Leiden (Netherlands), a friend photographed all skulls I had measured. He's a professional and needed two days to do it right.

When you publish about skulls and need good photographs, you hire a professional to do it right. Contact any biologist who published about skulls for more information.  

When I visit a museum or someone with a skull collection, the photographs are taken by someone with a mobile phone or a camera. Could be anyone interested. I never hire a professional, because I don't publish. I need photographs to compare skulls of different big cat species from different angles. The board with the scale I used when I started measuring skulls was made by a brother. I thought the scale would help, but the opposite was true in that the photographs often resulted in questions.        

When you still have questions, contact a professional photographer and ask him about the effect of angles and how to remove them. Show him the photographs taken by the biologist in Belgium and the photographs published in the articles discussed in this thread recently.
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johnny rex Offline
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Quote:The photographs of the skull of the Belgium zoo Amur tiger were made by the owner of the skull. He's a biologist, but not a photographer. A pro knows how to deal with angles, whereas an amateur doesn't.

The photograph below from an article recently discussed in this thread was made by a pro as well. It shows the skull of a very old captive male Amur tiger from the Hamamatsu zoo. The article was discussed on this thread not so long ago. When you use the scale on the photograph, you'll see that the difference between the real greatest length of the skull (380 mm.) and the length of the skull according to the scale in the photograph is close to zero:


*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author
    

Today, most of us have mobile phones with a camera. The result is a tsunami of photographs and videos. I'm not saying that all photographs are bad, but there's quite a difference between a professional photographer and an amateur. An amateur needs an hour or so to photograph 50 big cat skulls from different angles. A professional needs a day or more. When I was in the Naturalis Natural History Museum in Leiden (Netherlands), a friend photographed all skulls I had measured. He's a professional and needed two days to do it right.

When you publish about skulls and need good photographs, you hire a professional to do it right. Contact any biologist who published about skulls for more information.  

When I visit a museum or someone with a skull collection, the photographs are taken by someone with a mobile phone or a camera. Could be anyone interested. I never hire a professional, because I don't publish. I need photographs to compare skulls of different big cat species from different angles. The board with the scale I used when I started measuring skulls was made by a brother. I thought the scale would help, but the opposite was true in that the photographs often resulted in questions.        

When you still have questions, contact a professional photographer and ask him about the effect of angles and how to remove them. Show him the photographs taken by the biologist in Belgium and the photographs published in the articles discussed in this thread recently.

I just measured the length of Altai's premaxilla by using the first pic that only shows the teeth with 125 mm scale used to measured its canines. Altai's premaxilla is 5 cm.

Then, I look to the second picture that shows the top view of Altai's skull with 125 mm scale. Its premaxilla is still the same at 5 cm. So, your calculation is quite accurate @peter. This is one of the biggest skulls of Amur tiger.
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United States GrizzlyClaws Offline
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(06-26-2018, 10:17 PM)johnny rex Wrote:
Quote:The photographs of the skull of the Belgium zoo Amur tiger were made by the owner of the skull. He's a biologist, but not a photographer. A pro knows how to deal with angles, whereas an amateur doesn't.

The photograph below from an article recently discussed in this thread was made by a pro as well. It shows the skull of a very old captive male Amur tiger from the Hamamatsu zoo. The article was discussed on this thread not so long ago. When you use the scale on the photograph, you'll see that the difference between the real greatest length of the skull (380 mm.) and the length of the skull according to the scale in the photograph is close to zero:


*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author
    

Today, most of us have mobile phones with a camera. The result is a tsunami of photographs and videos. I'm not saying that all photographs are bad, but there's quite a difference between a professional photographer and an amateur. An amateur needs an hour or so to photograph 50 big cat skulls from different angles. A professional needs a day or more. When I was in the Naturalis Natural History Museum in Leiden (Netherlands), a friend photographed all skulls I had measured. He's a professional and needed two days to do it right.

When you publish about skulls and need good photographs, you hire a professional to do it right. Contact any biologist who published about skulls for more information.  

When I visit a museum or someone with a skull collection, the photographs are taken by someone with a mobile phone or a camera. Could be anyone interested. I never hire a professional, because I don't publish. I need photographs to compare skulls of different big cat species from different angles. The board with the scale I used when I started measuring skulls was made by a brother. I thought the scale would help, but the opposite was true in that the photographs often resulted in questions.        

When you still have questions, contact a professional photographer and ask him about the effect of angles and how to remove them. Show him the photographs taken by the biologist in Belgium and the photographs published in the articles discussed in this thread recently.

I just measured the length of Altai's premaxilla by using the first pic that only shows the teeth with 125 mm scale used to measured its canines. Altai's premaxilla is 5 cm.

Then, I look to the second picture that shows the top view of Altai's skull with 125 mm scale. Its premaxilla is still the same at 5 cm. So, your calculation is quite accurate @peter. This is one of the biggest skulls of Amur tiger.


The upper limit for the Amur tiger skull could be re-evaluated as @peter has suggested that there could have other larger Amur skulls than Altai based on his intuition with other giant Amur/Manchurian tigers.
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johnny rex Offline
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Some pictures of Altai the tiger.


*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author
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United Kingdom Roflcopters Offline
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this could all have been avoided if she was placed on leave from the first incident, unfortunately when you work with big cats. any little mistake could be a life and death situation and people need to be very aware of the danger. no matter how professional you are. safety is always a must, looks like she wasn’t so lucky the second time and as a result. she paid a heavy price and so did the tiger who wasn’t at fault. this was clearly a human error. sad ending.
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Netherlands peter Offline
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( This post was last modified: 06-27-2018, 08:27 AM by peter )

(06-26-2018, 11:55 PM)johnny rex Wrote: Some pictures of Altai the tiger.


*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Tiger 'Altai' was from Howlett (UK). He was born on August 8, 2008. Tigress 'Hanya', a few years older, was from France. It seems they got along from the start. After the unfortunate incident in August 2012, the zoo director was targeted by many (referring to social media).

Male tigers are able to reproduce from age 3 or thereabout. Although adult in this respect, they're still young adults at that age. Adulthood is reached between 5-6 years of age. Young adults can have a large skull, but skulls of older animals usually are (relatively) longer, wider and heavier. The difference between age groups is significant (at the level of averages).

During adulthood, male tigers in particular keep on growing. The famous Sauraha tiger (Royal Chitwan, Nepal) gained 8 cm. as an adult. The first time he was weighed, he bottomed a 500-pound scale. The second time, he bottomed a 600-pound scale.

Based on what I saw in captive male Amur tigers, my guess is that 'Altai' still had some growing to do. In spite of that, he already was a large and robust animal at age 4. Here's a few more pictures:


*This image is copyright of its original author
   


*This image is copyright of its original author
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johnny rex Offline
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Anyway, if I'm not mistaken this Javan tiger skull is 349 mm/basically 35 cm in length. Right?

The top view of this skull (first pic) is nicely captured just like how Altai skull was captured from top view but still there are some problems with the angle. That skull if we look at from top view measured slightly exceeded 37 cm, not 35 cm as I expected. 

I think the only way to be sure about the size of Altai skull is to contact the people who measured Altai or currently possesed Altai skull in order to know the size of it or measured the skull personally over the straight line by meeting the people who possesed the skull.

*This image is copyright of its original author
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( This post was last modified: 06-27-2018, 10:35 AM by peter )

(06-27-2018, 12:13 AM)Roflcopters Wrote: this could all have been avoided if she was placed on leave from the first incident, unfortunately when you work with big cats. any little mistake could be a life and death situation and people need to be very aware of the danger. no matter how professional you are. safety is always a must, looks like she wasn’t so lucky the second time and as a result. she paid a heavy price and so did the tiger who wasn’t at fault. this was clearly a human error. sad ending.

It seems the poor woman had had different narrow escapes. Her luck ran out when she met Altai at home on that fateful day. Meaby it's best to leave it at that. 

Those who take care of big cats often change their behaviour after some years in that they tend to treat the animals they know so well more and more like pets or friends. They know that a cage and keys are necessary, but not a few forget to lock doors every now and then. They also often enjoy close contact. Human nature, so it seems.

Most slops go unnoticed or have no consequences. A keeper in a facility I visited every now and then was bitten by an adult tigress he knew well. This happened when she had to change cages. She didn't like it one bit and told everyone. The keeper, like he always did, tried to comfort her. That day, she took his arm in her mouth and told him in no uncertain way that liberties were not permitted in some circumstances. It resulted in four blue holes, but the skin still was intact.      

A keeper taking care of Asiatic lions in a zoo was not that lucky. He forgot to lock one of the doors. The lions knew. The next day, they were waiting for him. The male lion made serious work of it before he was shot. The keeper needed 6 months to recover. When he reported for duty, he was optimistic. Unfortunately, it didn't work out. After some time, he had to call it a day. When you survive a severe mauling, things change. 

I talked to quite a few with similar experiences and also saw a few statistics. Most accidents are a result of slops and risks that could and should have been avoided. Not seldom, especially in the USA, children are involved. Don't ask me why they were allowed to get close to big cats. When an adult is attacked, fear often seems to be an important factor. Every now and then, an attack is a result of aggression. Captive big cats often show great restraint when it matters. This is the reason so few get hurt.  

For a visitor, handler, keeper or trainer, knowledge is all important. Very often, it's there right at the start. The male Sumatran tiger who pushed me aside when a molar of his brother was removed by a vet was known for his disposition. A killer, they said. They had a point, but we got along from the start. This was not true for a tigress liked by all. I had a different opinion and stayed out of reach. Some time later, I was proven right. The keeper was blamed, but they were wrong again. The tigress knew I knew and invited me for dinner. I politely declined.

I'm still working on the Hasinger tiger. Takes a bit of time.
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( This post was last modified: 06-27-2018, 11:08 AM by peter )

(06-27-2018, 08:44 AM)johnny rex Wrote: Anyway, if I'm not mistaken this Javan tiger skull is 349 mm/basically 35 cm in length. Right?

The top view of this skull (first pic) is nicely captured just like how Altai skull was captured from top view but still there are some problems with the angle. That skull if we look at from top view measured slightly exceeded 37 cm, not 35 cm as I expected. 

I think the only way to be sure about the size of Altai skull is to contact the people who measured Altai or currently possesed Altai skull in order to know the size of it or measured the skull personally over the straight line by meeting the people who possesed the skull.

*This image is copyright of its original author

The skull found by Hoogerwerf is 349 mm. in greatest total length and not, as the first picture suggests, 370 mm. The shade says that it wasn't taken by a pro. But he had a nice camera. 

The skull of tiger Altai is somewhere in Koln. From Amsterdam, it's less than 3 hours by train. In September, I'll meet friends in Germany. Bigcatwise, one of them is very much in the know. I'm sure he wants to join me. My guess is I'll see the skull next fall. This time, I might hire a real photographer.
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( This post was last modified: 06-28-2018, 11:42 AM by peter )

BOOK: The Last White Hunter - Reminiscences of a Colonial Shikari
AUTHOR: Donald Anderson with Joshua Mathew
ISBN: 978 - 93 - 85509 - 12 - 4
PUBLISHER: Indus Source books (March 2018)


*This image is copyright of its original author


KENNETH AND DONALD ANDERSON

Kenneth Anderson had a reputation in India before he started writing. The reason is he hunted man-eating tigers and leopards in southern India. His books, like those of Jim Corbett, were special. Not many hunters write about their experience. Those who did, often struggled to find the right words. Jim Corbett and Kenneth Anderson didn't.

Some chapters of Kenneth Andersons books have been discussed in this thread. In quite a few of them, his son Donald featured. Some time ago, I found a few videos in which Donald talked about the things he had seen. Interesting stuff. If you want to know more, read post 1,298 in this thread.

REVIEWS

I got a review copy of the book some weeks ago. I'll need time to read it (see below). Others already did. Here's a list of reviews: https://www.thelastwhitehunter.com/media-reviews

MEANING OF 'THE LAST WHITE HUNTER'

Today, I read a recent report about deforestation. To keep it short: the rate of destruction didn't change. Every year, a region four times the size of the Netherlands is chopped to pieces. If we add all the rest of it (climate change, polluted oceans and a lot more), chances are it will affect the outlook of many. The article is in Dutch: https://nos.nl/artikel/2238662-trend-wereldwijde-ontbossing-zet-vrijwel-net-zo-hard-door.html 

A century ago, Hermann Wiele, working for Hagenbeck, visited southern India. He wrote a book about his experience. It was published in 1910. In those days, the forests were so extended that you could walk for weeks and never see a soul:


*This image is copyright of its original author


Kenneth Anderson and his son Donald lived in southern India. They saw something that is all but gone today. Most people who lived in the this world never talked about it, but some hunters did. I met a few of them. It took quite an effort. They were as elusive as the animals they once hunted.

When I started visiting museums to measure skulls, I was met by a man who knew about the old world. He had hunted in India most of his life. His trade was tigers. I don't know how he knew about me, but he did. I was invited by a middleman. One day, we met. He did the talking and I made notes. This is how I came to know a bit about the world I had only seen in books. 

All hunters I met were men of few words. In spite of that, they conveyed information. Lots of it, in fact. One could say they talked liked they hunted in that everything they said had meaning and direction. Very often, it was way too fast for me. The reason is I grew up in a world with a lot of blanks. People talk a lot today, but what they say can be stored in one egg. The trainers I interviewed were not very different from the hunters I met. As a result of bad experiences, quite a few were ruled by distrust. Those able to overcome it talked like they acted in that everything had intention. As a result of their bond with the cats, they still lived in the old world. Hunters were different from trainers in that they had given up on humans a long time ago. At least, that's what I concluded after some time. 

Anyhow. Those who know about the world that has largely been destroyed in the last 50 years or so often are elusive and distrustful. A great pity, as they have a lot to say. Donald Anderson was raised in a world we don't know and don't understand. When he saw what was happening all around him, he retreated. The older he got, the more he faded.  

Joshua Mathew took his time to connect to a man loaded with knowledge. A man he had wanted to meet for a long time. In the end, he succeeded. Donald Anderson started talking. One more time he talked about the world he had known so well. Joshua listened and made notes. In this way, he opened the door to an unknown room. A room with a view. And what a view it is. May seem self-evident to you, but it isn't. In fact, it's special. So special, I would advice to buy the book unseen. It's a treasure. Many thanks on behalf of our readers, Joshua. Great job.

A great achievement deserves a great review.

Entering a lost world isn't easy. You will be disconnected for some time, meaning you need to take your time to do it right. I read a bit every few days, but don't really enter. Not yet. But in the fall, I will. Joshua Mathew won't be disappointed.
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Netherlands peter Offline
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TIGERS AND ALTITUDE

A few years ago, the BBC informed us about tigers in Bhutan. Some of these tigers reached 12 000 feet. It wasn't the first report about tigers well exceeding 10 000 feet in the Himalayas. I posted a scan of a letter (published in the JBNHS many years ago) about a tiger seen in Sikkim.

Recently, I posted about two tigers living in a facility in northeastern India. These tigers, now adult, had been caught when young. Authorities thought they were different from other tigers in India. They think there is another population of mountain tigers in the extreme northeast in Arunachal Pradesh. 

Two years ago, a tiger was seen above 12 000 feet in Uttarakanth. I remember reading the article, but it wasn't posted in this thread. Here it is:      

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/tiger-spotted-above-12-000-ft-in-uttarakhand-experts-say-ominous/story-C3opdIQuYIxxs60KFyxlPI.html
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