ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)

[peter]

(06-18-2015, 11:37 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: Peter:
"
I was a bit harsh when I responded to your remark (sorry about that), but I don´t want to explain things you could and should have known yourself. When you have question, be a tiger. If you don´t find the answer, read, talk or ask. And don´t lecture. Ever. You do lectures and rankings at school. This is a public forum. The intention is to find answers to questions. While doing so, you develop yourself without getting ridiculed or dismissed. We help each other, but never at the expense of each other. This is the difference with other forums. Over and out. "

I never lectured anybody, sorry if it sounded like that to you. But I was simply showing the fact that tigers climb high on trees to scrape and scent mark their glands against them, the video shows you the different claw marks made by tigers the higher they go up. So while estimating a tigers body size based off claw marks, its not the most scientific means, that all Im saying. To me, this forum is for presenting different points of view in a respectful manner and using evidence to back them while trying to come to a educated conclusion until new evidence is presented, At least thats how I interpret it, and thats all I was doing. Isn't that what science is, using as much research and evidence as possible to try to come to an educated conclusion?

In regards to "stretching itself"
Yes a tiger uses a tree to stretch but it also uses it to scent mark and say "look how large I am" to intruders, that why the videos show challenging males doing so.
A tiger Pulling down or dragging down will most likely make similar marks that would be very hard to interpret otherwise, not that you can't but there is definitely a huge gap for error. Like Pugmark ID, its not a exact science which means its not a exact mean to use for measurements, hope you understand what I am saying.
 

You focussed on my remark on lecturing. I understand, as it was both personal and controversial. Let's forget about my remark, as I admit I was the one lecturing (...). I get to inadequate communication and apologies again.

I propose to return to the issue. Is a scratch mark on a tree a result of a tiger stretching or is a scratch mark a result of a tiger climbing a tree? I said stretching and you said a scratch mark could have been left by a tiger climbing a tree.

Let's focus on what a scratch mark is. A scratch mark is a claw mark left on a tree by a tiger. Scratch marks typically are elongated and close together, meaning the tiger had his paws close together when he made them. Standing on his hind legs, the tiger first stretches to capacity (reaching maximum height), then contracts his muscles. When contracting, he pulls his paws down with his claws extended. The downward movement results in a long and deep scratch mark, created by the claws of both paws. Scratch marks are deep at the very top (at the point where the tiger hooked in) and at the lowest point of the mark (when he unhooks). The force involved works from top to bottom, not sideways.  

Does a tiger also leave a long and deep scratch mark when he climbs a tree? No.

In order to climb, a tiger jumps the tree, hooks his claws into the tree with one paw on the left side and the other on the other side (so not close together) and then pulls (using his fore-arms) and pushes (using his hind legs) himself up. He also contracts his arm, neck, shoulder and back muscles in order to keep him in the tree. Not easy when you are 200 kg. 

When he goes down, the claws unhook and the tiger more or less jumps down, at times in stages. Hindfeet first. What do we see when a tiger has climbed a tree? Not much. If there is a mark, it is deep and not elongated. There often is no claw mark going down, as the tiger isn't moving down in the same way as he went up. When there are scratch marks, they are on both sides of the tree and not close together. They also are not elongated, but short and deep. A bit like spikes hammered into a tree. A large part of the force used is lateral (working from side to side).   

Illustration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoGh1Nd86oI

If you see a scratch tree used by tigers with long and elongated scratches made by the claws of both paws close together, the tiger leaving the scratch marks was standing on his hind legs. The scratch marks were made when the tiger had first stretched himself against the tree and then contracted his muscles, pulling down his paws, with claws extended, when doing so.   

Hoogerwerf (1970) saw scratch marks left by tigers in eastern Java (Udjong Kulong). The height reached ranged between 180-216 cm. Indian tigers are longer, taller and heavier than Java tigers. In a documentary about tigers in northwest India, the height of scratch marks left by tigers ranged between 221-277 cm. Some very large Indian tigers left scratch marks at a height of 10 feet and slightly over (up to 10.6). Amur tigers are a trifle longer than Indian tigers, meaning some scratch marks left by very large males could also reach 10 feet and slightly over.  Reply