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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
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 (08-30-2018, 08:26 PM)Spalea Wrote: I could have thought about "The jungle book"... After all the tiger Shere Khan was just obsessed by Mowgly. But is this a real story ? Suprisingly enough maybe there is some true in the story about Shere Khan and his "servant" - Tabaki the jackal, serving as a spy of his master - the tiger. In India are known some special satellite jackals called "kol-bahl" a few words about them are written even in wiki: "In India, lone jackals expelled from their pack have been known to form commensal relationships with tigers. These solitary jackals, known as [i]kol-bahl[/i], will associate themselves with a particular tiger, trailing it at a safe distance to feed on the big cat's kills. A [i]kol-bahl[/i] will even alert a tiger to prey with a loud "pheal". Tigers have been known to tolerate these jackals, with one report describing how a jackal confidently walked in and out between three tigers walking together." This jackal is quite a mysterious creature and literaly could serve as a eyes and ears of the tiger. This relationship could become particulary ominous if the tiger turn to be a man-eater. The great British hunter Keneth Anderson in his blood-freezing documentary story "The Call of the Man-eater" describes a case when such a jackal make "reconnaissance" work for the tiger finding out a lonely people close to the villages and informing the tiger about their presence with laud hawling. After half an hour the man-eater usually arrives and kills the victim. If a danger appears the jackal informs the tiger by alarm barking. Keneth Anderson needed several weeks to realise what really is going on. @Rishi do you know something more about kol-bahl? Here is a old Soviet version of Kipling's Jungle Book, my favourite from childhood:  (08-31-2018, 12:07 PM)Vegeta San Wrote: So you telling that tiger takes many days to kill a adult gaur? Quote:But it doesn't take days to kill a gaur! Tiger is not a house cat. That quote from @Wolverine is totally wrong! You shouldn't just call someone "totally wrong" like that. The cases of quick kills have been recorded, but that doesn't make them the norm. The tiger predation thread is full of hamstringed gaurs with open rumps & untouched throat. Cases of tigers injuring gaurs & finishing them off later are also there. The fact is that we have till date only one full footage of a tiger hunting a gaur, against probably thousands of lions' bullfalo hunt. That is how less we know what exactly happens. IMO we best start collecting what the forest guides & guards have to say. They know more that all the internet combined... (09-01-2018, 10:19 AM)Wolverine Wrote: Suprisingly enough maybe there is some true in the story about Shere Khan and his "servant" - Tabaki the jackal, serving as a spy of his master - the tiger. In India are known some special satellite jackals called "kol-bahl" a few words about them are written even in wiki: Yes. It often happens. They follow the tigers just like arctic foxes often shadow polar bears. Actually they have quite a popular duo (like tom & jerry) in Bengali childrens' literature. The shrewd jackal calls the tiger "maternal uncle" & tiger calls him "nephhew". The jackal play tricks on the tiger & so on... I had the whole collection, they were my favourites as a kid. Can't find the book now. Here's few examples, see if it can translate. My platform is bengali compatible, it doesn't... বাঘ_মামা_আর_শিয়াল_ভাগ্নে বোকা_বাঘ বাঘের_পালকি_চড়া  (08-31-2018, 11:56 PM)Vegeta San Wrote:Pckts Wrote:a large Bull is NOT being taken down quickly and especially not by a throat hold, at least not by anything other than an exceptional specimen and predation. Even the last photo you show is from a very old Bull named Odin, he fought the Tiger all night long and lived to tell the tale. VEGETA.. sunquist's "invunerable" gaur:  *This image is copyright of its original author
 (08-23-2018, 11:24 AM)Rishi Wrote: Thanks for that. Is nagarjunasagar-sri venkateswara landscape landscape a part of central indian landscape?.as there is no corridor to central india.and why not be in southindia? seshachalam biosphere reserve(sri venkateswara nationa park)has direct link towardsnagarjunasagar(10000 sq km landscape). https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/c...nsstr.html seshachalam inturns connected towards the nilgiri biosphere reserve,through some forest paches.these forests patches are important elephant corridor aswell.nearly 100 elephants inhabits in this corridor.besides 50 elephants in seshachalam.which suggest the corridor is not bad at all. Seshachalam biosphere reserve is a region to which elephants have returned after 200 years. In the last decade, elephants have been migrating more than ever before, looking for habitable forests. From 1983 to 1986, a sizable number of elephants began their journey from the forests of nilgiri biosphere reserve to seek alternative homes in sehechalam reserve ,which connected to nagarjunasagar. Figure showing elephant dispersal corridor from nilgiri biosphere to sri venkateswara national park:  *This image is copyright of its original author So nagarjunasagar tiger reserve has a potential to be a elephant habitat in future .as well as the two large metapopulation of tiger(nagarjunasagar and nilgiri biosphere)to be connected by this corridor. 
@Suhail l very good your posting that will add content to the post of @Rishi 1747. It is a very important conservation aspect for all animals in the ecosystem. The tiger is functionally an "umbrella" species, that is, its presence is a reflection of the functional integrity of the environment. Maintaining functional corridors will be the future responsible for the natural health of the population, avoiding that human manipulation lead to procedures of reallocation / reintroduction, among other positive aspects, such as the simple existence of habitat.
In my point of view, it is very good that practical aspects of conservation have greater approaches. Presenting the tiger reserves, their population, their territory, number of prey, problems faced, existing tourism ventures, support infrastructure, projects that are being carried out, etc., would give everyone a deeper and more comprehensive view of reality by tigers in Indian territory. (09-02-2018, 08:11 PM)Suhail Wrote:Quote: You are quite right... 50 years from now South India might become a single conservation unit. (Which state are you from btw?) Actually as NagarjunSagar (NSTR) region is the northernmost part of southern section of Eastern Ghat before it's bifurcated by Krishna-Godavari basins, those parts were fairly well connected to forests of Telengana/Gadchiroli that's the largest wilderness complex in Central India. Understandably those tigers had a lot of genetic similarity, especially because to the southwest scrubland seperated it from the western ghats.  *This image is copyright of its original author When the tiger populations south of Gundla Brahmeswaram (GBM) Sanctuary dried up, only they remained. Only very recently tiger population has grown enough to migrate out of NSTR. With north not an option, they are swiftly spreading south... Quote:Tigers in 12 more grids outside protected areas in Andhra Pradesh, finds survey  *This image is copyright of its original author Lankamalleswara wildlife sanctuary already has tigers, who have made this sanctuary their transient home as one of them is breeding. A narrow corridor between Lankamalleswara & Seshachalam hills exist at the backwaters of Somasila. Sri Venkateshwara National Park (SVNP), the core area of Seshachalam Biosphere Reserve, is a highly protected area sans villages or human activity & is considered to be the best one in Andhra Pradesh. Tigers are expected to occupy this area within 2020. So in the next decade we can expect genetic exchange between Eastern Ghat & Nilgiri though Koundiya Wildlife Sanctuary. The place already resident elephants that have come in from Cauvery WS in Tamil Nadu which link Nilgiri to Eastern Ghats. @parvez can you find out if NSTR is still connected with Papikonda NP & Kawal TR? (08-31-2018, 11:56 PM)Vegeta San Wrote: But it doesn't take days to kill a gaur! Tiger is not a house cat. That quote … is totally wrong! It is right. Could be remembered two cases of prolonged fights between tigers and gaurs: 1. In his documentary story "The Big Bull Bison of Gedesal" the famous British hunter Kenneth Anderson decribes a case when a bull gaur has fight all night long for his life with a male tiger. The terrific roars from the battle were heard for many hours in surrounding village. Both beasts were very tenasious and nobody wanted to give a way. When Anderson arrived next morning at the place he saw the dead body of the tiger and the vegetation around was totally smashed during the struggle. Gaur succeeded to penetrate with his horn the chest of the tiger and poke his heart. The bull was so badly wounded that Andesron described that his intestines were pulling out (curiosly enough I don't remember about any neck wounds). Amazingly step by step the big bull recovered during next weeks and survived. You can read the story "The Big Bull Bison of Gedesal" in this book and order it by amazon:  *This image is copyright of its original author 2. The recent case with the male gaur "Odin" mentioned by PC. Two animals also fighted all night long, tiger was obviously searching the weak place of the bull but finally decided that its two strong to be killed. The story with the male gaur Odin in details was posted earlier in wildfact with photos. Odin:  *This image is copyright of its original author Ok. So now Vegeta San let's imagine that Odin was not so strong, but a bit weaker. After causing him some wounds the tiger feeling that the herbivore is progressively weakening by losing blood and traumas will not leave the surroundings but will check the gaur the second night and the third night for sure and if decides that the gaur is already not enough strong will kill it, be sure. So as you can see the statement that tiger hunt of bull gaur could take a long periods of time is not completely wrong, but completely right.  Wolverine Wrote:It is right. Could be remembered two cases of prolonged fights between tigers and gaurs: Quote:1. In his documentary story "The Big Bull Bison of Gedesal" the famous British hunter Kenneth Anderson decribes a case when a bull gaur has fight all night long for his life with a male tiger. The terrific roars from the battle were heard for many hours in surrounding village. Both beasts were very tenasious and nobody wanted to give a way. When Anderson arrived next morning at the place he saw the dead body of the tiger and the vegetation around was totally smashed during the struggle. Gaur succeeded to penetrate with his horn the chest of the tiger and poke his heart. The bull was so badly wounded that Andesron described that his intestines were pulling out (curiosly enough I don't remember about any neck wounds). Amazingly step by step the big bull recovered during next weeks and survived. I didn't said a bull can't fought off a tiger. But that based on tiger and it's mood. Do you have any details about this particular tiger. As predator will not always to be serious but prey will try to fought off predator too serious and until last drop of blood. Wolverine Wrote:2 Quote:. The recent case with the male gaur "Odin" mentioned by PC. Two animals also fighted all night long, tiger was obviously searching the weak place of the bull but finally decided that its two strong to be killed. The story with the male gaur Odin in details was posted earlier in wildfact with photos.Like I said above. I agree bull gaur can fought off tiger. And it based on predator. Wolverine Wrote:Ok. So now Vegeta San let's imagine that Odin was not so strong, but a bit weaker. After causing him some wounds the tiger feeling that the herbivore is progressively weakening by losing blood and traumas will not leave the surroundings but will check the gaur the second night and the third night for sure and if decides that the gaur is already not enough strong will kill it, be sure. So as you can see the statement that tiger hunt of bull gaur could take a long periods of time is not completely wrong, but completely right.I never heard something like tiger getting back to check out gaur health condition to take on and kill it. I don't think they do. If you have some accounts like that then it should be some of the rare incident but never be common technique for tiger..
Colegue, here the question is not what we are talking about, but how we talk. Everybody of us has his own opinions. If you don't agree with somebody just say: "I disagree with you" or "My opinion is different". But if say to somebody - "your statement is "totally wrong", than you are insulting the person... I think Rishi already told you.
In any way nobody of us is perfect, so already forgot about that. That's way I sometimes avoid communication if forums, its harder than in real life. Wolverine Wrote: Colegue, here the question is not what we are talking about, but how we talk. Everybody of us has his own opinions. If you don't agree with somebody just say: "I disagree with you" or "My opinion is different". But if say to somebody - "your statement is "totally wrong", than you are insulting the person... I know right, that was my opinion. This is a discussion. There's no guarantee people agrees with you in a discussion. Everyone has their opinions. "Totally wrong" doesn't mean I insulted you. I'm just telling that your statement is far from truth. Tiger attacking a gaur and coming back to see it's health is not a common thing happens in wild. And if there's some incidents happened then it will be a exceptional case. I never heard something like this before...
@Rishi i just got a reply from an expert who told me nagarjuna sagar tiger reserve is connected to papikondalu and kawal tiger reserve. I guess it is probably with narrow patches of forests as I have read articles regarding nstr, gbm corridors and there are few tigers there as human interference is too high. Then these reserves that are far away from each other with maps showing no connectivity between them must also be having narrow patches of forests in between them. I can imagine connectivity through papikondalu. But to kawal i can't imagine a healthy connectivity. I came across many maps in which these narrow patches of forests are not to be seen.
Guys I had a good conversation with an onfield expert. He told me tigers regularly feed on gaurs. Sometimes they bring down gaurs in less than a minute by getting hold of their upper neck by jumping on their bodies. In forests with good densities of garu, they were known to learn to bring down gaurs in less than 5 minutes. There may be some exceptional cases from the past where less weighted tigers may have taken almost half a day and some ill fated tigers may have been killed in fights but in most of cases the tiger successfully predates on gaurs.
Normally I do not post on these subjects (fighting between animals, whether of the same species or not), since I believe that it presents hypothetical, intuitive and deductive knowledge. It is very unlikely to obtain practical results that would serve as a model for measuring results, and thus, provide objective knowledge. Let's see: a Gaur takes how many years to become an adult. He is not a migratory animal. So if this Gaur inhabits tiger territories, imagine how many times they both meet ... that is, if it were easy for a tiger to kill a Gaur they would be rare in tiger land? Or I talking bullshit?
Regardless of the answers that come ... nature has its balance and no animal develops for thousands of years if it does not have effective means of facing its predators and balancing the game. Another thing: A weakened tiger, aware of the importance of feeding himself as fast as possible, will behave quite differently from perfect health, some with true suicidal acts. Knowing the outcome of the combat is easy. Knowing all the circumstantial forces that surround the two animals when they face each other is impossible. I believe that when a Tiger encounters a Gaur, most of the time, there is no predation, and for reasons that are not possible to know, the clash does not happen. Some say that Statistics is the science of lies, because it alone is not able to measure the facts and events that gave its result. The facts narrated in book by hunters have value yes, however I see in a singular and not pluralized way the result of these clashes between different species. Are not affirmations, just to reflect !!! |
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