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Most powerful cat pond for pound?

Norway Pantherinae Offline
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#1

I have always wondered which of the big panthera cats are the strongest pound for pound. Not fighting abilities or aggression, but pure strength! Every cat has immense strength, but which is stronger? 

Tiger (panthera Tigris) 

The biggest cat in the world, extremely muscular and powerful. Capable of bringing down adult bull gaurs and water buffalo and even rhinos which are easily 5 times the tigers own weight. 
Stories have told many tales about the tigers strength, and the tiger is today a symbol of strength and power all over the world! I've heard about that a tiger was once able to drag a carcass of a bull gaur twice as long as 13 grown men. 

*This image is copyright of its original author
 

Lion (Panthera Leo) 

The lion is the second largest cat in the world and the most social of all cats. They can with their numbers bring down almost every single prey item on the African plains even the massive elephants aren't safe. 
Males do not hunt as much as females and when they first do hunt it's most often with the whole pride or with their coalition. So rarely do you actually get to see what a lone male lion actually are capable of. But just as much as the tiger (most likely more) the lion symbols strength and power all over the world. 

*This image is copyright of its original author
 

Jaguar (panthera Onca)  
 
The Jaguar is the largest cat on the American continent and does have the strongest bite of all cats. The crush the skulls of their prey unlike other cats who deliver the deadly bite in the throat or neck. They will mostly hunt caimans and capibara, but also tapir and large domestic cattle. 

*This image is copyright of its original author

 
Leopard (panthera Pardus) 

The smallest of the big cats, still a large animal capable of bringing down large prey Like wild boar, large deer and antilope species, big reptiles and zebras. They will also hoist their prey up in trees to keep it away from larger carnivorous animals. 
Leopards I'm sure could show even more, but they are rarely top cats through out their range and making huge kills would most likely be a waste of energy as the prey would get stolen by a larger predator.  

*This image is copyright of its original author
 

So I hope that people have some great talking points and observations they themselves have made over the years!
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Switzerland Spalea Offline
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#2

@Pantherinae :

I don't want to take part in this discussion by giving the name of the "lucky winner" felid. But:


1) By arguing in accordance with the "Pound for pound" concept, the more smaller an animal is, the more stronger he is... It's a fact that the most powerful animal on Earth are the insects. No one mammal can accomplish "Pound for pound" what a lone ant (I could consider an infinite number of other insects) would be able to do. And that by very far. Thus, within the same animals family we consider here i.e. the big cats, the pantherinae, the most "pound for pound" powerful cat would be the leopard. Logically, being the smallest big cat... Why not ? Because being not an apex predator it makes such feats we don't never see among the other big cats (climbing onto a tree with a big prey only held in its mouth). Logically, but I don't want to go further in this argumentation.

2) Therefore, only one comparaison would be fair: to consider two animals at equal weight. Among the big cats, tiger, lion, jaguar and leopard only the first two have an equivalent weight at first sight, the tiger and the lion.

And we risk a "tiger vs lion" debate... These both animals are differently agenced according to the environment in which they live. Each of the two are apex predator, the tiger individually is the most amazing, the most fascinating but the lions have other assets from their social way of live.

Then...
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India sanjay Offline
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#3

Would love to have some reliable sources for backup.. specially scientific data.. In that respect Jaguar has upper hand, in my opinion
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Norway Pantherinae Offline
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#4

(06-11-2018, 12:11 PM)Spalea Wrote: @Pantherinae :

I don't want to take part in this discussion by giving the name of the "lucky winner" felid. But:


1) By arguing in accordance with the "Pound for pound" concept, the more smaller an animal is, the more stronger he is... It's a fact that the most powerful animal on Earth are the insects. No one mammal can accomplish "Pound for pound" what a lone ant (I could consider an infinite number of other insects) would be able to do. And that by very far. Thus, within the same animals family we consider here i.e. the big cats, the pantherinae, the most "pound for pound" powerful cat would be the leopard. Logically, being the smallest big cat... Why not ? Because being not an apex predator it makes such feats we don't never see among the other big cats (climbing onto a tree with a big prey only held in its mouth). Logically, but I don't want to go further in this argumentation.

2) Therefore, only one comparaison would be fair: to consider two animals at equal weight. Among the big cats, tiger, lion, jaguar and leopard only the first two have an equivalent weight at first sight, the tiger and the lion.

And we risk a "tiger vs lion" debate... These both animals are differently agenced according to the environment in which they live. Each of the two are apex predator, the tiger individually is the most amazing, the most fascinating but the lions have other assets from their social way of live.

Then..
Well we must Consider the square-cube laws when talking about insects, like an ant the side of a man is actually physically weaker than the human. But the hercules beetle is insanely strong capable of lifting 800 times it’s own weight! 
The same can be said for the cats, although a much smaller scale. The leopard has insane abilities and strengths, but needs extreme acceleration and manuverble limbs for climbing so I would personally think the leopard would be the weakest, then it’s much harder to pick the next cat it’s between the Lion and Jaguar jaguars are more compact, but the Lion is very muscular especially in the upper body. So that is almost impossible to decide. Then I would put the tiger at top. 
I think we can discuss this as adults. and this is not a fight discussion it’s a strength at equal size discussion. It’s all very close, although I think the biggest cat is also the strongest, there has still been well documented cases where Lions have beaten tigers in staged fights. So the vs debate is silly imo.
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Switzerland Spalea Offline
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#5

@Pantherinae :

About #4 :


I remember you to have written at #293 inside the "Big cats interactions - Interspecific conflicts" topic :

"Trust me the leopard is a much bigger personal favorite of mine than the spotted hyena (I even prefer the striped hyena). But I've learned to look at it more fair over the years and started to appreciate things for how they are. I could be a fanatic myself, but let's face it sometimes you are dead wrong. I was certain that a lone lion would beat a tiger (basically because I wanted too), but now I think it's more a 50/50 and if I had to give an edge I would for sure give it to the tiger,  I was also sure a leopard would smash a hyena, my whole school book was covered with drawings of leopards killing hyenas, but again now I lean towards 50/50 and I actually believe I would slightly favor a big hyena over a big leopard if I had too."

I have the same problem as you about the male lion: it's my favorite animal and this by far. But inside the wildfact forum I truly learnt that the male tiger is able to kill an adult wild gaur, and by seeing the numerous photo of tiger here published I noticed that the tiger enjoy the most impressive forelimbs (astonishing when we see them walking front view to wards us).

As you say I started to be a more fair over the years... The biggest tigers being the biggest felines are the most powerful.
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United Kingdom Sully Offline
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#6
( This post was last modified: 06-11-2018, 08:53 PM by Sully )

Whenever I have thought of this question in the past my answer has always been the jaguar. Simply the sheer build of the animal with a powerful structure, strong forelimbs, a bone crushing bite, these cats are able to take out caiman which is no easy feat. However my one qualm with jaguars which is of course down to no fault of their own is prey size/difficulty. I have never heard a case of jaguar predation which has really wowed me in terms of difficulty of the kill. Now we can all theorise whether one would be able to take out a zebra for example but nothing concrete will come from it and there are too many variables (ambush style, surrounding vegetation, ect) to simply put it down to the size of the animal. Now following the same line of thought cats such as the leopard and tiger do have cases of predation that wow me, we all know some of the astonishing hunting feats leopards have achieved from eland all the way to gorilla, and the way they hoist kills into trees is beyond insane. However more recent cases of tigers killing juvenile and adult rhinos for me is the most impressive if we're thinking size ratio wise and difficulty of the kill/aggressiveness of the prey item. A cat that can overpower a rhino is pound for pound probably the strongest. I think it's hard to add lions to this comparison given their hunting accomplishments are usually done in a group, so for me they are exempt even though the figurehead is usually the male.

Great thread btw! Interested to see others' input.
"When the tiger stalks the jungle like the lowering clouds of a thunderstorm, the leopard moves as silently as mist drifting on a dawn wind." -Indian proverb
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Norway Pantherinae Offline
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#7

@Sully I agree with most of what you say, but lions have been able to single handedly kill adult cape buffalo, and there is a video of a Lion finishing of a large juvenile rhino by eating it alive, it’s said that the Lion broke it’s back when jumping on it. So lions besides tigers does kill the most impressive prey species alone. And I highly doubt a leopard could kill an adult Eland, I’ve seen them throw of two lionesses like nothing can’t see a lone leopard kill something like that tbh. But I’m interested to know how strong a jaguar is, I suspect them to be extremely powerful!
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United Kingdom Sully Offline
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#8

Here an account of a leopard killing an eland, I didn't think it was possible either!

*This image is copyright of its original author


https://books.google.com.au/books?dq=leo...&q&f=false
"When the tiger stalks the jungle like the lowering clouds of a thunderstorm, the leopard moves as silently as mist drifting on a dawn wind." -Indian proverb
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