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Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars

Sergio.Diniz Offline
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(02-12-2021, 12:56 AM)Balam Wrote:
(02-11-2021, 04:48 PM)Sergio.Diniz Wrote: I just joined the space. I am an enthusiast of wildlife and specially jaguars. I have seen several information about the largest male jaguars ever, over 150kg, but not heard about the largest female pantanal jaguars. Where can I find more information on that? Thanks,

Welcome Sergio, we have a collected dataset for female Pantanal jaguars here. Per the official weight provided to us by the Oncafari team, Troncha with a weight of 100 kg would be the heaviest female on record, although during her capture she yielded a weight of 110 kg which was included in the paper Mercury content in the fur of jaguars (Panthera onca) from two areas under different levels of gold mining impact in the Brazilian Pantanal by Tortato et al:


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Excellent material! Thank you very much!
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Italy LoveAnimals Offline
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Some males from Pantanal, all of them are in the 91–140 kg range.
This just shows that Pantanal Jaguars are the largest of their species

134 kg male but only 4 years old

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Alleged 140 kg found dead

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110 kg Male


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Alleged 130+ kg

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115 kg


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Another 115 kg one.

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123 kg

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This should be the 158/159 kg monster record from old hunting if I remember correctly Likely the size of a lioness!

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Italy LoveAnimals Offline
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Sergio! What a surprise to see you here! I am Andrea Vitanza from Quora the guy who sent you some size comparisons
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Balam Offline
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( This post was last modified: 02-15-2021, 09:59 PM by Balam )

ATLANTIC FOREST WEIGHT CHART


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Dark Jaguar Offline
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(10-05-2020, 12:07 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: UPDATED CERRADO MALE JAGUARS TABLE.



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13 individuals and the year of Macharrão male's capture that was recently published by IOP.

Updated Cerrado male jaguars table

With the addition of one 80 kg male we got a sample of 13 males and an average of 97.3 kg for a Cerrado male jaguar.


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110 kg Richard wild cerrado male jaguar.

Named after famous biologist in Brazil Richard Rasmussen.


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Angry 110 kg Richard wild Cerrado male caged after being lured to fight with Xavante as part of the process to lock him inside the cage.

Here you can hear and see the power of this muscular Cerrado beast.






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110 kg Richard male being taken back to the wilderness of Cerrado in Parque Nacional das Emas - Brazil.


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Richard cerrado male being weighed.


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Great canines conditions.


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Richard Rasmussen and Richard the cerrado jaguar.


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Cerrado jaguars table from the study by Mariana Malzoni Furtado who worked in a long time at IOP and all jaguars captured in her study were the same captured by IOP.

I found the link.

EPIDEMIOLOGICAL STUDY OF PATHOGENS CIRCULATING IN JAGUAR AND DOMESTIC ANIMAL POPULATIONS IN PRESERVED AREAS OF THREE BRAZILIAN BIOMES: CERRADO, PANTANAL AND AMAZON.

https://www.teses.usp.br/teses/disponiveis/10/10134/tde-05102012-134828/publico/MARIANA_M_FURTADO.pdf

Most of the cerrado males in the table comes from her study.


Jaguars captured in Parque Nacional das Emas - PNE ( Rhea's National Park ) - Cerrado - Brazil.

Jaguars captured between February 2000 to May 2009.


*This image is copyright of its original author




FROM THE MAP BELLOW OF THE STUDY LOCATION IN PNE

Red triangles: Capture places of jaguars
Yellow triangles: Recapture places of jaguars
Green area: Parque Nacional das Emas ( Rhea's National Park )
Yellow area: Rural property shown
Brown area: Rural property not shown
Dark lines: Drainage



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Fresh Cerrado jaguar Pugmarks in Parque Nacional das Emas - PNE ( Rhea's National Park )


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Cerrado male Jaguar captured in the early 2000's.

credits: Jaguar Coservation Fund - IOP

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The 151.633 cerrado male.


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151.633 was 1st captured in Parque Nacional das Emas - Cerrado in February 2009.


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He was captured by IOP using the dogs then he was recaptured in May 2009 as you can see in Mariana's table above.


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He was with very good dentition conditions.


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Mariana Furtado collaring 151.633 male.


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This Cerrado beast weighed 104 kg on his first capture then on his recapture he weighed again 104 kg.


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Dark Jaguar Offline
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( This post was last modified: 03-03-2021, 04:31 AM by Dark Jaguar )

Taking advantage of my post right above of the Cerrado Jaguars table and that the link is ''alive'' I'll do a repost on the tables by Mariana Malzoni Furtado ( first time I posted it was all by hand typing since back then I didn't know very well how to post this way ) of the Amazonic jaguars ( area Parque Estadual do Cantão ) and Pantanal jaguars ( area Fazenda Barranco Alto and Fazenda Caiman )

Amazonic jaguars from Parque Estadual do Cantão.

Jaguars captured between August 2006 to April 2007.


*This image is copyright of its original author



FROM THE MAP BELLOW OF THE STUDY LOCATION IN PARQUE ESTADUAL DO CANTÃO - AMAZON

Green area: Parque Estadual Cantão
Dark Lines: Drainage
Brown dots: Headquarters of rural property
Yellow triangles: Jaguar's Capture places



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''First amazonic jaguar marked with a radio-collar in Tocantins. Cantão State Park - Caseara.''


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One thing worth noting is that one of the amazonic females from the table The 151.834 female was in very bad shape.

''Almost all of the captured individuals (96.8%, n=30) had excellent or good physical condition great or good, general condition great or good, suitable body weight and no apparent clinical signs of disease. A single female jaguar (151.834) captured in the Parque Estadual do Cantão had low body weight and was dehydrated (Figure 37). Observed by researchers the night before its capture, the animal was attentive, with no change in behavior. It was estimated that this female was approximately 10 years old. The animal had absent upper left canines and upper and lower incisors as well as badly worn lower canines (Figure 38). ''

Figure 37 - ''Female 151.834 captured in PEC (Parque Estadual do Cantão) with low body weight.''

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Figure 38 - ''Dentition of Female 151.834 with absence of upper canine''

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Pantanal jaguars table from Mariana Malzoni Furtado's study.

Jaguars captured between October 2003 to November 2008.

Areas of captures were in Fazenda Barranco Alto in the region of Aquidauana MS and Fazenda Caiman in the region of Miranda MS.


*This image is copyright of its original author



FROM THE MAP BELLOW OF THE STUDY LOCATION IN PANTANAL MS.

Red triangle: Jaguars Capture places
Blue triangle: Jaguars Recapture places
Yellow area: Rural property shown
Green area: Rural property not shown
Dark Line: Drainage


*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



credits: IOP

Mariana Malzoni Furtado checking the canines and collecting datas of young jaguar.


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Tick located on left eyelid of jaguar.


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Cornered Jaguar up tree in the Pantanal after being tracked by the dogs.


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Sedated jaguar after fall off the tree over the net and vegetation bed.


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Young female being weighed.


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IOP's Capture of male and female Pantanal jaguars in Miranda MS. These 2 are also in Mariana's table


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Here's another couple of Pantanal jaguars, according to Leandro Silveira this capture took place in 2003, for identification these 2 could be the 2 jaguars (male and female) from Mariana's table above captured in the same day in 2003.


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Dark Jaguar Offline
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ADRIANO'S MEASUREMENTS


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He is here, the first jaguar that debuted this thread and back then I noticed he had the wrong 158 kg claim by the photographer which was debunked by Fernando Tortato with Adriano ( AKA Tel or Teo ) weighing 130 kg.

During a nice discussion about jaguars with Rafael Hoogesteijn I asked the measurements of Adriano (or Tel), he said unfortunately he doesn't have them but then he suggested me to get Tel's measurements with Fernando Tortato since him and Joares May were the Head of that capture.

Rafael Hoogesteijn and Fernando Tortato call him Tel, he is also known by Panthera researchers with the codename as M11.

Rafael told me Tel's capture was a day to never forget in December 12th 2012.



Measure Method

Fernando Tortato said they often use over the curves and with Tel/Adriano they used a malleable tape measure  that involves the body of the animal ( I noticed it before his answer as soon as I saw Adriano/Tel shoulder height ).

However Rafael Hoogesteijn said the jaguars he captured in Llanos he measured on straight lines, just like Dr Crawshaw told me, he said over the curves will end up enlongating the size of the animal which is an inaccurate method.

M11 (Teo/Adriano) Measurements.

Measure Method: Over the Curves.

Head Girth: 75.6cm
Neck Girth: 67cm
Chest Girth: 109cm
Shoulder Height: 85cm
Body Length: 152cm
Tail Length: 66cm
Total length: 218 cm
Weight: 130kg


*This image is copyright of its original author




Message by Tortato.


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Teo's head circumference is what impressed me the most about his dimensions.


*This image is copyright of its original author




Tel vs Pita

On the head girth Teo is 4.6 cm larger than Pita's head, that's really impressive. He definitely got a head size above the average.

However on the Neck girth department Pita is the record holder, the male to be beaten as no other jaguar on my books have beaten Pita's  whooping 70 cm of Neck girth, 3 cm thicker than Tel/Adriano's neck and 1.5 cm thicker than Almeidas thickest neck jaguar.

Chest girth wise I expected Tel/Adriano to be thicker than those 109 cm so it was a bit of a disappointment to me, so Tel/Adriano is 5 cm thinner than Pita's 114 cm chest. ( Dr Crawshaw was really serious when he said Pita is a very Bulky, wide, low to the ground jag ).

Shoulder Height was what led me to think Tel/Adriano was measured over the curves, with his 85 cm tall on the shoulders, 15 cm taller than Pita's shoulder (straight lines). Its clear Tel/Adriano is a bit shorter on the shoulder than that.


*This image is copyright of its original author


Total length wise with both cats measured differently ( Tortato told me the measuring tape followed all curves of Adriano's muscular body ) with that being said we can assure Tel/Adriano is slightly shorter than those 218 cm but I personally think Tel/Adriano in total body length would be slightly longer than Pita's total 207 cm if Tel was measured on straight lines because Tel got a tail 10 cm longer than Pita's tail. What I know for sure is that Jaguars are short and broad cats by nature.



Tel AKA M11


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Balam Offline
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(03-07-2021, 06:28 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: ADRIANO'S MEASUREMENTS


*This image is copyright of its original author


He is here, the first jaguar that debuted this thread and back then I noticed he had the wrong 158 kg claim by the photographer which was debunked by Fernando Tortato with Adriano ( AKA Tel or Teo ) weighing 130 kg.

During a nice discussion about jaguars with Rafael Hoogesteijn I asked the measurements of Adriano (or Tel), he said unfortunately he doesn't have them but then he suggested me to get Tel's measurements with Fernando Tortato since him and Joares May were the Head of that capture.

Rafael Hoogesteijn and Fernando Tortato call him Tel, he is also known by Panthera researchers with the codename as M11.

Rafael told me Tel's capture was a day to never forget in December 12th 2012.



Measure Method

Fernando Tortato said they often use over the curves and with Tel/Adriano they used a malleable tape measure  that involves the body of the animal ( I noticed it before his answer as soon as I saw Adriano/Tel shoulder height ).

However Rafael Hoogesteijn said the jaguars he captured in Llanos he measured on straight lines, just like Dr Crawshaw told me, he said over the curves will end up enlongating the size of the animal which is an inaccurate method.

M11 (Teo/Adriano) Measurements.

Measure Method: Over the Curves.

Head Girth: 75.6cm
Neck Girth: 67cm
Chest Girth: 109cm
Shoulder Height: 85cm
Body Length: 152cm
Tail Length: 66cm
Total length: 218 cm
Weight: 130kg


*This image is copyright of its original author




Message by Tortato.


*This image is copyright of its original author




Teo's head circumference is what impressed me the most about his dimensions.


*This image is copyright of its original author




Tel vs Pita

On the head girth Teo is 4.6 cm larger than Pita's head, that's really impressive. He definitely got a head size above the average.

However on the Neck girth department Pita is the record holder, the male to be beaten as no other jaguar on my books have beaten Pita's  whooping 70 cm of Neck girth, 3 cm thicker than Tel/Adriano's neck and 1.5 cm thicker than Almeidas thickest neck jaguar.

Chest girth wise I expected Tel/Adriano to be thicker than those 109 cm so it was a bit of a disappointment to me, so Tel/Adriano is 5 cm thinner than Pita's 114 cm chest. ( Dr Crawshaw was really serious when he said Pita is a very Bulky, wide, low to the ground jag ).

Shoulder Height was what led me to think Tel/Adriano was measured over the curves, with his 85 cm tall on the shoulders, 15 cm taller than Pita's shoulder (straight lines). Its clear Tel/Adriano is a bit shorter on the shoulder than that.


*This image is copyright of its original author


Total length wise with both cats measured differently ( Tortato told me the measuring tape followed all curves of Adriano's muscular body ) with that being said we can assure Tel/Adriano is slightly shorter than those 218 cm but I personally think Tel/Adriano in total body length would be slightly longer than Pita's total 207 cm if Tel was measured on straight lines because Tel got a tail 10 cm longer than Pita's tail. What I know for sure is that Jaguars are short and broad cats by nature.



Tel AKA M11


*This image is copyright of its original author

Really exciting to finally get his measurements, him having a large head circumference doesn't surprise me because I always thought his face was particularly imposing almost like a lion. Just like you, I'm surprised at the chest girth measurements since for a jaguar his size I would've expected something above 110 cm. Overall Ruxu was a very stocky jaguar but his frame was never necessarily the largest. 

Now, keep in mind that he was captured in 2012 and he first appeared in the PJ area in 2011, he was last seen in 2019. What this means is that he certainly grew bigger throughout the years and the weight and measurements captured initially by Panthera may not be the accurate measurements for him during his more senior days, and it's important to know for sure the ages of the cats being compared for context. For example, Joker on his initial capture had a total body length of 225 cm, but on his latest capture last year his body measured 250 cm, so he grew consistently from that period of time, which means that his outstanding measurements of 126 cm in chest circumference and his massive neck and head only got bigger with time, and thus I'm not surprised that he reached the mark of 140 kg on his second capture despite not being fully lifted (imagine how big he must be to reach that benchmark with such velocity), which would suggest he was actually much heavier than that.

I'd imagine that with Ruxu/Adriano/Telephone (he has so many names) his size also increased dramatically with time. Here he is in Nov 2015, IMO he looked much bigger than on his earlier days of being tracked when he was captured:


*This image is copyright of its original author

Another thing to keep in mind with over the curve measurements, in the event that the usual immature people would want to use these jaguar measurements to compare them to other cats, perhaps on the pointless VS debates on forums like Carnivora, the measurements of all other felids are too overwhelmingly taken following the curves of the body unless specified otherwise, so before anybody tries to discredit these measurements for elongating the body, remember that for other cats (like the ones they like to pit against jaguars) the measurements usually publicized for them would be elongated as well more often than not. This is the same case for weight collections, where it is assumed that the jaguars are always gorge and they must find ways to reduce their weight some way or another, but that same standard for stomach content (which often times the understanding of stomachal content is flawed since these people don't know anything about the metabolical absorption of food intake on felids) must be applied to other cats as well.
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Dark Jaguar Offline
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(03-07-2021, 06:56 AM)Balam Wrote:
(03-07-2021, 06:28 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: ADRIANO'S MEASUREMENTS


*This image is copyright of its original author


He is here, the first jaguar that debuted this thread and back then I noticed he had the wrong 158 kg claim by the photographer which was debunked by Fernando Tortato with Adriano ( AKA Tel or Teo ) weighing 130 kg.

During a nice discussion about jaguars with Rafael Hoogesteijn I asked the measurements of Adriano (or Tel), he said unfortunately he doesn't have them but then he suggested me to get Tel's measurements with Fernando Tortato since him and Joares May were the Head of that capture.

Rafael Hoogesteijn and Fernando Tortato call him Tel, he is also known by Panthera researchers with the codename as M11.

Rafael told me Tel's capture was a day to never forget in December 12th 2012.



Measure Method

Fernando Tortato said they often use over the curves and with Tel/Adriano they used a malleable tape measure  that involves the body of the animal ( I noticed it before his answer as soon as I saw Adriano/Tel shoulder height ).

However Rafael Hoogesteijn said the jaguars he captured in Llanos he measured on straight lines, just like Dr Crawshaw told me, he said over the curves will end up enlongating the size of the animal which is an inaccurate method.

M11 (Teo/Adriano) Measurements.

Measure Method: Over the Curves.

Head Girth: 75.6cm
Neck Girth: 67cm
Chest Girth: 109cm
Shoulder Height: 85cm
Body Length: 152cm
Tail Length: 66cm
Total length: 218 cm
Weight: 130kg


*This image is copyright of its original author




Message by Tortato.


*This image is copyright of its original author




Teo's head circumference is what impressed me the most about his dimensions.


*This image is copyright of its original author




Tel vs Pita

On the head girth Teo is 4.6 cm larger than Pita's head, that's really impressive. He definitely got a head size above the average.

However on the Neck girth department Pita is the record holder, the male to be beaten as no other jaguar on my books have beaten Pita's  whooping 70 cm of Neck girth, 3 cm thicker than Tel/Adriano's neck and 1.5 cm thicker than Almeidas thickest neck jaguar.

Chest girth wise I expected Tel/Adriano to be thicker than those 109 cm so it was a bit of a disappointment to me, so Tel/Adriano is 5 cm thinner than Pita's 114 cm chest. ( Dr Crawshaw was really serious when he said Pita is a very Bulky, wide, low to the ground jag ).

Shoulder Height was what led me to think Tel/Adriano was measured over the curves, with his 85 cm tall on the shoulders, 15 cm taller than Pita's shoulder (straight lines). Its clear Tel/Adriano is a bit shorter on the shoulder than that.


*This image is copyright of its original author


Total length wise with both cats measured differently ( Tortato told me the measuring tape followed all curves of Adriano's muscular body ) with that being said we can assure Tel/Adriano is slightly shorter than those 218 cm but I personally think Tel/Adriano in total body length would be slightly longer than Pita's total 207 cm if Tel was measured on straight lines because Tel got a tail 10 cm longer than Pita's tail. What I know for sure is that Jaguars are short and broad cats by nature.



Tel AKA M11


*This image is copyright of its original author

Really exciting to finally get his measurements, him having a large head circumference doesn't surprise me because I always thought his face was particularly imposing almost like a lion. Just like you, I'm surprised at the chest girth measurements since for a jaguar his size I would've expected something above 110 cm. Overall Ruxu was a very stocky jaguar but his frame was never necessarily the largest. 

Now, keep in mind that he was captured in 2012 and he first appeared in the PJ area in 2011, he was last seen in 2019. What this means is that he certainly grew bigger throughout the years and the weight and measurements captured initially by Panthera may not be the accurate measurements for him during his more senior days, and it's important to know for sure the ages of the cats being compared for context. For example, Joker on his initial capture had a total body length of 225 cm, but on his latest capture last year his body measured 250 cm, so he grew consistently from that period of time, which means that his outstanding measurements of 126 cm in chest circumference and his massive neck and head only got bigger with time, and thus I'm not surprised that he reached the mark of 140 kg on his second capture despite not being fully lifted (imagine how big he must be to reach that benchmark with such velocity), which would suggest he was actually much heavier than that.

I'd imagine that with Ruxu/Adriano/Telephone (he has so many names) his size also increased dramatically with time. Here he is in Nov 2015, IMO he looked much bigger than on his earlier days of being tracked when he was captured:


*This image is copyright of its original author

Another thing to keep in mind with over the curve measurements, in the event that the usual immature people would want to use these jaguar measurements to compare them to other cats, perhaps on the pointless VS debates on forums like Carnivora, the measurements of all other felids are too overwhelmingly taken following the curves of the body unless specified otherwise, so before anybody tries to discredit these measurements for elongating the body, remember that for other cats (like the ones they like to pit against jaguars) the measurements usually publicized for them would be elongated as well more often than not. This is the same case for weight collections, where it is assumed that the jaguars are always gorge and they must find ways to reduce their weight some way or another, but that same standard for stomach content (which often times the understanding of stomachal content is flawed since these people don't know anything about the metabolical absorption of food intake on felids) must be applied to other cats as well.

His head surprised me as I compared with Lopez's head which just by the looks it appears its gonna break the record, hopefully we'll soon find out.

Here's Teo still with his collar just to give you an idea of his dimensions at closest time of when he was captured. I agree he might've gotten thicker along the years.


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author




Joker we know he is measured over the curves so he is a bit shorter but its not a bad thing if you ask me, to me the jaguars main feature is the girth and width of their bodies by having the most muscular, chunky body of all the cats so wide/circumference wise they're no joker.  

Joker is still a long male though.

One Jaguar I am very excited about from the last captures by Onçafari is without a doubt Robusto male, I am very curios to know his circumference dimensions.



I agree with you on if it is to compare with other big cats (and other jaguars) lengthwise it has to be compared by the same measuring method so its good to know FIRST which measure method was used before Seriously comparing one cat to the other, otherwise it would bring inaccurate nonsense discussions.

Pita and Teo's main comparisons here was the Circumference ones.



Since you brought up stomach content I am gonna take advantage and post Shaka's capture in 2018 from onçafari's archive when he weighed his 131.6 kg.

At least from this angle He doesn't look THAT FULLY GORGED to me. What do you think ??

During their capture campaign that year of 2018 they captured 7 jaguars, 5 females and 2 males.


*This image is copyright of its original author




Lastly don't forget Pita was captured at a second time and weighed 130 kg so his dimensions could've increased as well and it wouldn't surprise me if his already massive record holder 70 cm neck girth got slightly thicker.

But unfortunately Pita's second capture wasn't done by Dr Crawshaw, it was done with Denis Sana and Antonio Platero so it would be harder to get Pita's measurements at his 130 kg.



122 kg Pita male captured by Dr.Crawshaw in 1994 in Porto Primavera.


*This image is copyright of its original author



You can see that forelimbs of Pita, that's solid muscles at 70 cm on height between the pegs.


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*This image is copyright of its original author




That 114 cm thick chest girth by lifting up his whole chest though.


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Note his massive neck here.


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*This image is copyright of its original author




Just as you mentioned about Teo/M11 if he was captured by a second time he could be thicker I think Pita's second capture at 130 kg he could've surpassed his own already amazing prior dimensions as well.


*This image is copyright of its original author



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Balam Offline
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(03-07-2021, 09:23 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(03-07-2021, 06:56 AM)Balam Wrote:
(03-07-2021, 06:28 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: ADRIANO'S MEASUREMENTS


*This image is copyright of its original author


He is here, the first jaguar that debuted this thread and back then I noticed he had the wrong 158 kg claim by the photographer which was debunked by Fernando Tortato with Adriano ( AKA Tel or Teo ) weighing 130 kg.

During a nice discussion about jaguars with Rafael Hoogesteijn I asked the measurements of Adriano (or Tel), he said unfortunately he doesn't have them but then he suggested me to get Tel's measurements with Fernando Tortato since him and Joares May were the Head of that capture.

Rafael Hoogesteijn and Fernando Tortato call him Tel, he is also known by Panthera researchers with the codename as M11.

Rafael told me Tel's capture was a day to never forget in December 12th 2012.



Measure Method

Fernando Tortato said they often use over the curves and with Tel/Adriano they used a malleable tape measure  that involves the body of the animal ( I noticed it before his answer as soon as I saw Adriano/Tel shoulder height ).

However Rafael Hoogesteijn said the jaguars he captured in Llanos he measured on straight lines, just like Dr Crawshaw told me, he said over the curves will end up enlongating the size of the animal which is an inaccurate method.

M11 (Teo/Adriano) Measurements.

Measure Method: Over the Curves.

Head Girth: 75.6cm
Neck Girth: 67cm
Chest Girth: 109cm
Shoulder Height: 85cm
Body Length: 152cm
Tail Length: 66cm
Total length: 218 cm
Weight: 130kg


*This image is copyright of its original author




Message by Tortato.


*This image is copyright of its original author




Teo's head circumference is what impressed me the most about his dimensions.


*This image is copyright of its original author




Tel vs Pita

On the head girth Teo is 4.6 cm larger than Pita's head, that's really impressive. He definitely got a head size above the average.

However on the Neck girth department Pita is the record holder, the male to be beaten as no other jaguar on my books have beaten Pita's  whooping 70 cm of Neck girth, 3 cm thicker than Tel/Adriano's neck and 1.5 cm thicker than Almeidas thickest neck jaguar.

Chest girth wise I expected Tel/Adriano to be thicker than those 109 cm so it was a bit of a disappointment to me, so Tel/Adriano is 5 cm thinner than Pita's 114 cm chest. ( Dr Crawshaw was really serious when he said Pita is a very Bulky, wide, low to the ground jag ).

Shoulder Height was what led me to think Tel/Adriano was measured over the curves, with his 85 cm tall on the shoulders, 15 cm taller than Pita's shoulder (straight lines). Its clear Tel/Adriano is a bit shorter on the shoulder than that.


*This image is copyright of its original author


Total length wise with both cats measured differently ( Tortato told me the measuring tape followed all curves of Adriano's muscular body ) with that being said we can assure Tel/Adriano is slightly shorter than those 218 cm but I personally think Tel/Adriano in total body length would be slightly longer than Pita's total 207 cm if Tel was measured on straight lines because Tel got a tail 10 cm longer than Pita's tail. What I know for sure is that Jaguars are short and broad cats by nature.



Tel AKA M11


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Really exciting to finally get his measurements, him having a large head circumference doesn't surprise me because I always thought his face was particularly imposing almost like a lion. Just like you, I'm surprised at the chest girth measurements since for a jaguar his size I would've expected something above 110 cm. Overall Ruxu was a very stocky jaguar but his frame was never necessarily the largest. 

Now, keep in mind that he was captured in 2012 and he first appeared in the PJ area in 2011, he was last seen in 2019. What this means is that he certainly grew bigger throughout the years and the weight and measurements captured initially by Panthera may not be the accurate measurements for him during his more senior days, and it's important to know for sure the ages of the cats being compared for context. For example, Joker on his initial capture had a total body length of 225 cm, but on his latest capture last year his body measured 250 cm, so he grew consistently from that period of time, which means that his outstanding measurements of 126 cm in chest circumference and his massive neck and head only got bigger with time, and thus I'm not surprised that he reached the mark of 140 kg on his second capture despite not being fully lifted (imagine how big he must be to reach that benchmark with such velocity), which would suggest he was actually much heavier than that.

I'd imagine that with Ruxu/Adriano/Telephone (he has so many names) his size also increased dramatically with time. Here he is in Nov 2015, IMO he looked much bigger than on his earlier days of being tracked when he was captured:


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Another thing to keep in mind with over the curve measurements, in the event that the usual immature people would want to use these jaguar measurements to compare them to other cats, perhaps on the pointless VS debates on forums like Carnivora, the measurements of all other felids are too overwhelmingly taken following the curves of the body unless specified otherwise, so before anybody tries to discredit these measurements for elongating the body, remember that for other cats (like the ones they like to pit against jaguars) the measurements usually publicized for them would be elongated as well more often than not. This is the same case for weight collections, where it is assumed that the jaguars are always gorge and they must find ways to reduce their weight some way or another, but that same standard for stomach content (which often times the understanding of stomachal content is flawed since these people don't know anything about the metabolical absorption of food intake on felids) must be applied to other cats as well.

His head surprised me as I compared with Lopez's head which just by the looks it appears its gonna break the record, hopefully we'll soon find out.

Here's Teo still with his collar just to give you an idea of his dimensions at closest time of when he was captured. I agree he might've gotten thicker along the years.


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Joker we know he is measured over the curves so he is a bit shorter but its not a bad thing if you ask me, to me the jaguars main feature is the girth and width of their bodies by having the most muscular, chunky body of all the cats so wide/circumference wise they're no joker.  

Joker is still a long male though.

One Jaguar I am very excited about from the last captures by Onçafari is without a doubt Robusto male, I am very curios to know his circumference dimensions.



I agree with you on if it is to compare with other big cats (and other jaguars) lengthwise it has to be compared by the same measuring method so its good to know FIRST which measure method was used before Seriously comparing one cat to the other, otherwise it would bring inaccurate nonsense discussions.

Pita and Teo's main comparisons here was the Circumference ones.



Since you brought up stomach content I am gonna take advantage and post Shaka's capture in 2018 from onçafari's archive when he weighed his 131.6 kg.

At least from this angle He doesn't look THAT FULLY GORGED to me. What do you think ??

During their capture campaign that year of 2018 they captured 7 jaguars, 5 females and 2 males.


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Lastly don't forget Pita was captured at a second time and weighed 130 kg so his dimensions could've increased as well and it wouldn't surprise me if his already massive record holder 70 cm neck girth got slightly thicker.

But unfortunately Pita's second capture wasn't done by Dr Crawshaw, it was done with Denis Sana and Antonio Platero so it would be harder to get Pita's measurements at his 130 kg.



122 kg Pita male captured by Dr.Crawshaw in 1994 in Porto Primavera.


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You can see that forelimbs of Pita, that's solid muscles at 70 cm on height between the pegs.


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That 114 cm thick chest girth by lifting up his whole chest though.


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Note his massive neck here.


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Just as you mentioned about Teo/M11 if he was captured by a second time he could be thicker I think Pita's second capture at 130 kg he could've surpassed his own already amazing prior dimensions as well.


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Great find concerning the picture of the capture of Shaka, it is very clear that he was far from gorged. As can be seen in the picture his belly does not fold upwards as it does with cats whose stomachs have inflated as a result of large amounts of content. He looks quite empty to me. Here is how the belly of a full-bellied cat lays on the grounds, pay attention to the circumference around the midsection:


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Shaka by comparison was lean:


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Any presence of stomachal remains would've been small if any, this was also the case with Lopez who showed a very similar mid-section when he was captured, the belly hanging low is the result of the organs laying flat on the surface. 

His official weight given as 131 kg by the actual experts, and it's very clear he was not full-bellied either way. There is really not much about a debate here, if people want to be mad that he weighed more than what they hoped for that's their issue.
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Italy LoveAnimals Offline
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@Balam 
@Dark Jaguar 

Adriano is 85 cm at the shoulder which is much for a Jaguar since they are known for having short limbs. 
By the way, is a jaguar able to reach 90 cms at the shoulder in your opinion?
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( This post was last modified: 06-17-2021, 06:28 AM by Dark Jaguar )

(03-08-2021, 04:42 AM)LoveAnimals Wrote: @Balam 
@Dark Jaguar 

Adriano is 85 cm at the shoulder which is much for a Jaguar since they are known for having short limbs. 
By the way, is a jaguar able to reach 90 cms at the shoulder in your opinion?

@LoveAnimals

First Keep in mind Adriano was measured over the curves ( he is shorter at shoulder than those 85 cm ).

The tallest jaguar captured by Peter Crawshaw from my books is Zezão male at 80 cm shoulder height (straight lines).

The average shoulder height (straight lines) of 29 males by Almeida was 74.4 cm.

Tallest jaguar by Almeida at shoulder out of all jaguars he measured was 82.2 cm (straight lines).

Now if we get as an example 2 big males measured over the curves at shoulder such as Shaka and Joker, Shaka at 78 cm and Joker at 76 cm knowing they're slightly shorter if they were measured on straight lines. We'll certainly need more samples from other populations (on straight lines) to reach a Decisive conclusion but I'd assume a 90 cm Jaguar at shoulder would be an exceptional height if measured on straight lines (the right way).

And I haven't seen any yet even by measured over the curves with such a height at shoulders (90 cm).
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Balam Offline
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@LoveAnimals Dark Jaguar said it all perfectly, likely the very high value for Adriano's shoulder height is the result of it being taken with the extended paw which should add about 7 cm or maybe a bit more in length. My guess is he was probably 72-75 cm tall at the shoulders.

Jaguars from the Llanos appear to be taller, but this is just my own personal hypothesis, at least based on pictures:


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Italy LoveAnimals Offline
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@Balam 
@Dark Jaguar 


Thanks for the information ! 
So basically I can't trust Wikipedia, because it's list of the largest land carnivores puts as max shoulder height 0.9 m (90 cm) for the Jaguar

The link is  


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_...arnivorans

I mean is this reliable?

Maybe it is considering the extinct subspecies that could reach 80–90 cms as average? Such as Panthera Onca Augusta? Whatever I'm not trusting Wikipedia anymore. 
The tallest confirmed Jaguars are 78–82 cm tall


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Adriano                                                                    

M11 (Teo/Adriano) Measurements.                                      Almeida's 119kg (Empty) Jaguar                                       Oncafari's Joker

Measure Method: Over the Curves.                                      Measure Method: Between the Pegs                            Measure Method: Over the Curves

Head Girth: 75.6cm                                                            Head Girth:                                                               Head Girth: 
Neck Girth: 67cm                                                               Neck Girth: 64 cm                                                      Neck Girth: 66 cm
Chest Girth: 109cm                                                            Chest Girth: 109 cm                                                    Chest Girth: 126 cm 
Shoulder Height: 85cm                                                       Shoulder Height: 73 cm                                               Shoulder Height: 76 cm
Body Length: 152cm                                                          Body Length: 158 cm                                                  Body Length: 165 cm 
Tail Length: 66cm                                                              Tail Length: 54 cm                                                     Tail Length:  71 cm 
Total length: 218 cm                                                          Total length: 212 cm                                                  Total length: 236 cm
Weight: 130kg                                                                   Weight: 119kg Empty                                                 Weight:


From what I can see above, Adriano is a short Jaguar but very bulky and tall at the shoulder with a big neck.
Almeidas Jaguar was fairly long with a big chest and neck but slightly shorter at the shoulder 
My opinion is that both Adriano and Almeida's Jaguar were probably around the same size.
Joker is bigger in all areas other than the shoulder height and probably similar to Almeida's in body length but he is an absolute tank of a Jaguar and his weight would probably be around 130-140kg empty. 
We know Lopez is bigger than the first 2 and I'd wager heavily he's bigger than Joker as well, Balam and Edno would most likely be in Lopez's category as well. 
They seem to be the upper limit of Jaguars today with possibly bigger ones out there but very few and far between.
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