Mangheni Pride

[Duco Ndona]

I have my doubts about that explaination. Prides always move a lot. Its part of their lives and they managed to raise cubs to subadult age before despite such behavoir. As have actually nomadic lionesses.

I think its mostly bad luck. The whole Mhangeni 12 fiasco. A string of unreliable or unsuccessful males. Wasting nearly 2 years on raising OMs cubs. Only to end up losing them in various ways.

We saw with the Othawa pride how sudden things can change. And we probably also gotten used to the succes stories. So we tend to forget how rough it can be out there. Reply

[criollo2mil]

(01-14-2023, 02:08 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: I have my doubts about that explaination. Prides always move a lot. Its part of their lives and they managed to raise cubs to subadult age before despite such behavoir. As have actually nomadic lionesses.

I think its mostly bad luck. The whole Mhangeni 12 fiasco. A string of unreliable or unsuccessful males. Wasting nearly 2 years on raising OMs cubs. Only to end up losing them in various ways.

We saw with the Othawa pride how sudden things can change. And we probably also gotten used to the succes stories. So we tend to forget how rough it can be out there.

I need to look for the two reports from two separate reservations that remarked about it.   I think I have it somewhere.   

Their behavior has not been exclusive to their time post OM death.   The reports of their behaviors go back all the way to their times with Majingilane and afterwards.   The rangers were basically critical of their decisions to migrate for seemingly no explained motivations and at times at the peril of their offspring’s ability to keep up Reply

[Duco Ndona]

The rangers words arent law.

If the constant moving was such a death sentence for young cubs. There never would have been a Mhangeni 12. Reply

[Mapokser]

It'd be very problematic if the 2 Majingilane daughters are infertile, or even all 3 younger females, it'd mean that unless the 2 older ones can have one last litter and a successful one with females, the pride would eventually vanish. Reply

[Tr1x24]

(01-14-2023, 06:23 AM)Mapokser Wrote: It'd be very problematic if the 2 Majingilane daughters are infertile,

Both females give birth already to OM cubs if im not mistaken. Reply

[Duco Ndona]

It might be that these things worsen by age.

Just like Auntie Othawa. Who had one litter and then nothing. Reply

[Cath2020]

(01-14-2023, 06:23 AM)Mapokser Wrote: It'd be very problematic if the 2 Majingilane daughters are infertile, or even all 3 younger females, it'd mean that unless the 2 older ones can have one last litter and a successful one with females, the pride would eventually vanish.

There is a very strong possibility that at least one is....if not both, since there is no evidence that they gave birth to cubs yet, certainly no video footage I know of or statement by rangers.  For sure Big Boy's sister absolutely never had cubs yet, and Tinya is still not pregnant.  They might have low fertility, rather than be infertile, we'll see.  I agree it's going to be very problematic if they both are, but a slow death for the pride if the youngest is too without more female cubs surviving from the older lionesses.   I was hoping this latest litter by the PC Males (some say only the less dominant mated with her) would be revealed already.  Last I read was that 4/5 lionesses were seen mating with the coalition.  Any pregnancy by the younger 3 especially will be met with relief and lots of hope. Reply

[criollo2mil]

(01-14-2023, 10:27 PM)Cath2020 Wrote:

(01-14-2023, 06:23 AM)Mapokser Wrote: It'd be very problematic if the 2 Majingilane daughters are infertile, or even all 3 younger females, it'd mean that unless the 2 older ones can have one last litter and a successful one with females, the pride would eventually vanish.

There is a very strong possibility that at least one is....if not both, since there is no evidence that they gave birth to cubs yet, certainly no video footage I know of or statement by rangers.  For sure Big Boy's sister absolutely never had cubs yet, and Tinya is still not pregnant.  They might have low fertility, rather than be infertile, we'll see.  I agree it's going to be very problematic if they both are, but a slow death for the pride if the youngest is too without more female cubs surviving from the older lionesses.   I was hoping this latest litter by the PC Males (some say only the less dominant mated with her) would be revealed already.  Last I read was that 4/5 lionesses were seen mating with the coalition.  Any pregnancy by the younger 3 especially will be met with relief and lots of hope.

Like @Tr1x24 said, yes there was at least one of the M12 girls with a litter. At the time of OM’s death there were 4 litters of cubs. We can exclude Tinya who had yet reached sexual maturity. So is let’s say the three old Mhangheni were mothers, at least 1/2 M12 females were mothers. I’m sure I can find footage of which. But my files aren’t well organized ATM to know right away. Hehe. Reply

[Cath2020]

(01-14-2023, 11:18 PM)criollo2mil Wrote:

(01-14-2023, 10:27 PM)Cath2020 Wrote:

(01-14-2023, 06:23 AM)Mapokser Wrote: It'd be very problematic if the 2 Majingilane daughters are infertile, or even all 3 younger females, it'd mean that unless the 2 older ones can have one last litter and a successful one with females, the pride would eventually vanish.

There is a very strong possibility that at least one is....if not both, since there is no evidence that they gave birth to cubs yet, certainly no video footage I know of or statement by rangers.  For sure Big Boy's sister absolutely never had cubs yet, and Tinya is still not pregnant.  They might have low fertility, rather than be infertile, we'll see.  I agree it's going to be very problematic if they both are, but a slow death for the pride if the youngest is too without more female cubs surviving from the older lionesses.   I was hoping this latest litter by the PC Males (some say only the less dominant mated with her) would be revealed already.  Last I read was that 4/5 lionesses were seen mating with the coalition.  Any pregnancy by the younger 3 especially will be met with relief and lots of hope.

Like @Tr1x24 said, yes there was at least one of the M12 girls with a litter.   At the time of OM’s death there were 4 litters of cubs.   We can exclude Tinya who had yet reached sexual maturity.   So is let’s say the three old Mhangheni were mothers, at least 1/2 M12 females were mothers.   I’m sure I can find footage of which.   But my files aren’t well organized ATM to know right away.  Hehe.

As I mentioned, without footage and blogs to prove it, I never saw any of the Mangheni 12 give birth.  I'm leaning towards none yet, but with a slight chance the younger Mangheni12 Lioness having one litter that quickly disappeared.  

Let's see what happens this year as this is what matters, not the past where none of the OM's litters survived.  It won't matter in the end unless they have more litters with the PC Males. Reply

[Tr1x24]

(01-14-2023, 11:59 PM)Cath2020 Wrote: As I mentioned, without footage and blogs to prove it, I never saw any of the Mangheni 12 give birth.  I'm leaning towards none yet, but with a slight chance the younger Mangheni12 Lioness having one litter that quickly disappeared.  

Here is Limping Mhangeni carrying her cub in 2020 :

Photo credits : Singita

*This image is copyright of its original author

Reply

[Cath2020]

(01-15-2023, 12:23 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(01-14-2023, 11:59 PM)Cath2020 Wrote: As I mentioned, without footage and blogs to prove it, I never saw any of the Mangheni 12 give birth.  I'm leaning towards none yet, but with a slight chance the younger Mangheni12 Lioness having one litter that quickly disappeared.  

Here is Limping Mhangeni carrying her cub in 2020 :

Photo credits : Singita

*This image is copyright of its original author

I did say that there was a slight chance that the youngest gave birth and then quickly lost her litter. (nothing is amiss here in my previous statement)  I did vaguely recall some information about that, however soon after that news, the cubs were never seen again.  I remember being quite surprised by how soon she lost them, but one litter in 7 years is low fertility; at least it shows she's not like K6, completely infertile. 

This doesn't mean anything overall, though, since she hasn't raised any litters yet, and that is really what my concern is.  After all, even the 'infertile' Auntie Othawa supposedly had one litter of cubs by Sizanani, but never seemed to get pregnant again.  This is not confirmed by pictures or video, but has been mentioned several times. Reply

[Maghreb]

(09-18-2022, 07:24 AM)SalemMagi Wrote:

(09-17-2022, 04:05 AM)criollo2mil Wrote:

(09-17-2022, 03:35 AM)abbeyster Wrote:

(09-09-2022, 05:09 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: I’m trying to get more fidelity but in several exchanges with guests and guides it’s been reported that the Limping Mhangeni has returned to the others.   But that the Sub-Adult and the Eldest Lioness is split away from the other 3 adults.   Maybe temporarily not sure if I will hear more till much later.   But wanted to share that it sounds like the missing lioness is ok.

Hello,

So there are three older lionesses, from the original four? Then the two younger lionesses from the 12cubs? And the Othawa sub adult? There is one older lioness with the Tsalala princess. So who is missing? One of the young lionesses from the 12cubs?

The Missing Lioness (now presumed dead) is one of the three Mapogo daughters that is also the mother of the OM Sub Adult. The Pride at the moment is split in three groups:

Group 1 = Tinya, and the Two Mhangeni 12 sisters
Group 2 = One Mapogo Daughter alone with the sub adult.    
Group 3 = The third Mapogo daughter is with Tsalala.   

So there are only two of the original 4 Mhangeni alive today.

I still find group 3 to be so incredible. While i am grateful that the 3rd Mapogo daughter Mangheni has adopted the Tsalala young female, i still just do not comprehend her motivation for doing so. Does anyone have any insight on this? Apologies if this has been addressed already.

Hormones. Reply

[DARK MANE]

3/5 mangheni girls.
1 is heavily pregnant.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Reply

[Mapokser]

@DARK MANE Can you tell if the pregnant one is 1/2 older Mangheni or one of the 3 younger?

Hopefully they settle down in Singita with their strong coalition and manage to raise cubs to adulthood. Reply

[criollo2mil]

(01-23-2023, 01:33 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @DARK MANE Can you tell if the pregnant one is 1/2 older Mangheni or one of the 3 younger?

Hopefully they settle down in Singita with their strong coalition and manage to raise cubs to adulthood.

Saw a video today….It’s been said Tinya is pregnant.   And I saw two others w big bellies.  It could also be they’ve got some nice meals. Reply

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