Lions of Timbavati

[Potato]

Shaka with Mayambula pride

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[Potato]

River pride and their males
Our big males are still patrolling the property keeping a close eye on their cubs! We caught up with all NINE lions last night spending an incredible hour with the pride....2 males, 5 females and 2 sub-adult females. No sign of the cubs so they must be stashed somewhere safe for now. We're glad to see they are taking their fatherly responsibilities seriously and hope this means our cute little cubs will have a much better chance of surviving to adulthood

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[Potato]

Mapoza male

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[Potato]

Black Dam male

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[Potato]

Last week at Tanda Tula
During the week we were lucky to have the River Pride around for a few days. This is a pride that moves into our concession from the north, so we don’t get to see them all that often. Currently the pride is comprising of 3 females and a young male, but I am very sure that the young male will be leaving the safety of the females in the next few months. However, it is likely he will link up with his slightly older brothers, who left to forge their own way not too long ago, this will then create a formidable coalition of 4 male lions. The Mbiri males better start watching their backs! Reply

[Potato]

Umlani about  Mbiris:
"They are way down south in ngala with the myambula pride, we havent seen them in a few weeks now and these River pride males seem to be settling in, potential for a big fight if the mbiris return"

Creazy think:
1. Lion's dinamic in Timbavati are getteing hot as young RP males are coming to adulthood. They have numbers to turn lions dinamic upside down, but will numerical advantage be enought against so mighty duo as Mbiris. It is going to be very intresting.
2. Being in Ngala is extremely far from their territory. They seem walk past Mapoza male and Avoca pride territory and end up in territory of Birmiingham pride and 2 Ross males. What are they looking for there? What could it mean for white cubs of Birmingham pride? Could 2 Ross males defend  themselfs against Mbiris? 

Really creazy stuff. Reply

[Tr1x24]

(11-11-2019, 08:24 PM)Potato Wrote: Umlani about  Mbiris:
"They are way down south in ngala with the myambula pride, we havent seen them in a few weeks now and these River pride males seem to be settling in, potential for a big fight if the mbiris return"

Creazy think:
1. Lion's dinamic in Timbavati are getteing hot as young RP males are coming to adulthood. They have numbers to turn lions dinamic upside down, but will numerical advantage be enought against so mighty duo as Mbiris. It is going to be very intresting.
2. Being in Ngala is extremely far from their territory. They seem walk past Mapoza male and Avoca pride territory and end up in territory of Birmiingham pride and 2 Ross males. What are they looking for there? What could it mean for white cubs of Birmingham pride? Could 2 Ross males defend  themselfs against Mbiris? 

Really creazy stuff.

Well things are getting interesting there.
 Smart move by 2 Mbiris, even with all of their power, they just dont have numbers to fight 4,5 males. Is there any info of young River pride males? Where they where seen last time? 

Prob because of Mbiris moved close to their territory, 2 Ross males with Birmingham pride where seen further southeast around Orpen gate/Tintswalo area and further east in Kruger, where by recent reports are now spending most of their time. I think 2 Ross males are smart enough to not fight 2 Mbiris, prob the strongest duo around.

Is Mbiri Scar rn the strongest/biggest lion in this region including Sabi Sands too? 
I think he is. 

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[Matimbalani]

(11-11-2019, 08:24 PM)Potato Wrote: Umlani about  Mbiris:
"They are way down south in ngala with the myambula pride, we havent seen them in a few weeks now and these River pride males seem to be settling in, potential for a big fight if the mbiris return"

Creazy think:
1. Lion's dinamic in Timbavati are getteing hot as young RP males are coming to adulthood. They have numbers to turn lions dinamic upside down, but will numerical advantage be enought against so mighty duo as Mbiris. It is going to be very intresting.
2. Being in Ngala is extremely far from their territory. They seem walk past Mapoza male and Avoca pride territory and end up in territory of Birmiingham pride and 2 Ross males. What are they looking for there? What could it mean for white cubs of Birmingham pride? Could 2 Ross males defend  themselfs against Mbiris? 

Really creazy stuff.

@Potato They could be responding to pressure from the young River Pride males. Reminds me of the dynamic between the B-Boys and the Southern Matimbas; at some point numbers just win out specially if the young males do not split up. I suppose this does open up some breathing room for the Zebenine lioness and her cub, though five male lions is a lot of testosterone and takeovers can always turn ugly.

I think I read somewhere that the Mbiri's did spend sometime with the Ross Pride. So they could just be returning to a familiar area. Reply

[Potato]

"They could be responding to pressure from the young River Pride males. Reminds me of the dynamic between the B-Boys and the Southern Matimbas; at some point numbers just win out specially if the young males do not split up."

I think distance they get through is way too be to be caused by RP males. If they would want just avoid those males they wouldn't need to go so far as Ngala. There just must be somethink elese.

" I suppose this does open up some breathing room for the Zebenine lioness and her cub"

Adult Zebenine lionesses already has sub adult daughter and will not mate with any male untill her daughter will be adult unless of course they kill sub adult, but I hope Zebenine girls will be cunning.

"I think I read somewhere that the Mbiri's did spend sometime with the Ross Pride. So they could just be returning to a familiar area."

They are not on Ross pride territory, they are on Ros males territory and Birmingham pride. Reply

[Mohawk4]

Ross males are more experience  and bigger lions than Mbiris ...... Reply

[Matimbalani]

(11-12-2019, 12:03 AM)Potato Wrote: "They could be responding to pressure from the young River Pride males. Reminds me of the dynamic between the B-Boys and the Southern Matimbas; at some point numbers just win out specially if the young males do not split up."

I think distance they get through is way too be to be caused by RP males. If they would want just avoid those males they wouldn't need to go so far as Ngala. There just must be somethink elese.

" I suppose this does open up some breathing room for the Zebenine lioness and her cub"

Adult Zebenine lionesses already has sub adult daughter and will not mate with any male untill her daughter will be adult unless of course they kill sub adult, but I hope Zebenine girls will be cunning.

"I think I read somewhere that the Mbiri's did spend sometime with the Ross Pride. So they could just be returning to a familiar area."

They are not on Ross pride territory, they are on Ros males territory and Birmingham pride.

@Potato Thanks for the correction regarding the Ross pride. Lions can be puzzling sometimes. Reply

[Potato]

" Smart move by 2 Mbiris, even with all of their power, they just dont have numbers to fight 4,5 males"

Unless they caught RP males one by one. Mlovathis put hell of the fight to young Majingilanes even through they were outnumbered 2:5 and I expect Mbiris to not lose their territory easly as well.

"Prob because of Mbiris moved close to their territory, 2 Ross males with Birmingham pride where seen further southeast around Orpen gate/Tintswalo area and further east in Kruger, where by recent reports are now spending most of their time. I think 2 Ross males are smart enough to not fight 2 Mbiris, prob the strongest duo around."

I agree in 100%

"Is Mbiri Scar rn the strongest/biggest lion in this region including Sabi Sands too? 

I think he is. "

For sure he is no the strongest as he is not the strongest even within his coalition. Shaka is the dominant one in that duo. What comes to size then I have no idea. No one weithts those lions. For sure larger Mbiri is very big lion althrough there is quite a few males around as well considered as  very large. If I would have to bet who is the largers lion in Sabi Sands, Manyeleti and Timbavati combined then I would put my bet on Jurnior the Orpen male althrought it is of  course just a bet. It may be that larger Mbiri is indeed the largest lion in those arenas.

"Ross males are more experience  and bigger lions than Mbiris "

I definitely wouldn't bet at that. Actually I have never seen any official source talking about Ross males to be anythink above avarage. Also intrasting fact that there was report once of Mbiris chassing 2 Ross males off theirr buffalo kill. Mbiris were just 4 years old by that time. Overall if they would meet in 2vs2 I could put all my money on Mbiris. Reply

[Potato]

Mentioned River pride young males at Umlani. I have no idea however what pride is this lionesses from.

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[Potato]

(09-09-2017, 01:25 AM)Fredymrt Wrote: From Tony  Coetzee


The Black Dam Male
Photo by Riaan taken in 2013

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Growing up! The male cub from the Black-Dam Pride has grown into a very handsome young lion, and is now displaying behaviour more characteristic of adult lions (such as the flehmen response seen here).


The Black Dam Male
Pushing towards 8 years now. Born January 2010

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"We started the fence removal between Thornybush and the APNR in February this year. After a short delay this 21km boundary is now down completely. Noticeable was how quickly the lions discovered this and the movement was instant. The Mapoza males came in and the battle was on, but within a few weeks things settled with the Black Dam male successfully retaining his territory as a single male.

The Giraffe pride made a couple of very brief appearances, but very short and mostly the guides only saw their tracks entering an leaving, apart from the 1st visit which lasted nearly 3 days.
Next was pressure from the east and the Ross males made a brief appearance, but again the Black dam male held them off and this single male might be boxed in a bit, but no other coalition has been in or after him for months now. One of the giraffe males were in quickly and took over the southern pride on Thornybush. After killing one lioness and one litter of cubs things quickly settled, but he has been pushed way down south by the Black Dam male. It might be added that he has now sired at least 3 new litters, all between 2-4 weeks old and we have not seen them yet.
Yet what was expected to be a quick take over has not happened. actually the opposite and it seems like the Balck Dam male has made himself known as a true beast...which he is. Things are thus pretty much unchanged and the only pride that occasionally pushes in seems to be the Avoca pride (or part of them) usually only when they follow buffalo across, make a quick kill and usually within a day they will be back east."

Hope the update is useful...will keep things updated. Would be great to know if any foreseen coalitions are making there way out of their prides any time soon.......

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Liam Rainier Bush Exposure The Black Dam male lion, keeping these youngsters safe from the Giraffe male who took over the southern pride of females except for this lioness who has separated and moved further north in an attempt to save her cubs. So far so good


From: Tony Coetzee

"One of the main draw cards was our unattended Black Dam Pride...consisting of 7 lionesses with 5 young females coming into estrus. This was far too attractive for the Giraffe male and he came under the fence long before we had it down in that area. One resisted him and he took her out, one tried to resist him, but he killed her cubs and badly injured her, but then mated with him soon enough. There is still one lioness with cubs that has managed to escape the Giraffe male and she is in a vacuum just too close to the Black Dam male, which is keeping her and the cubs safe with some protection form the Black dam male, although he is not with her often it seems to be giving her the freedom and confidence to hunt and provide for the cubs."

From :
Marguerite Brunsdon
"The beautiful story playing out now comes from a pride of lions found by Wilson in Nov 1991 When he found the first Black Dam Lioness Name Six’s. For referral she is now called Black Dam Matriarch Number 1- They are now the southern pride, although originally from Eastern Boundary of Thornybush Game Reserve She charged Wilson that made Wilson feel a special affinity with her

The lioness that escaped the Giraffe male is called Nwana wa Vusopfa which means the Prodigal daughter... She is doing pretty well with her cubs right now."

Refreshment of the Black Dam male story. Black Dam male is  also quite close (Kambaku lodge) to young  RP males and soon may be pressured by them. Reply

[Tr1x24]

2 Ross males fighting over Birmingham females in KNP

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