There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(02-06-2021, 12:20 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Best indication that this isnt anything serious is the end, Mohawk just goes behind DM and lay down after he sees submission from DM, and DM didn't turn and allow his back being exposed, which means he trust his brother, you wont see lion exposing his back to anyone if feel threatned.
Good point.
(02-06-2021, 10:03 AM)felinefan Wrote: death of one of the original Tsalala lioness in early 2018
She died in 1013, not 2018: https://blog.pillbox.co.za/2013/08/12/tsalala-grandmother-is-dead/
(02-06-2021, 10:03 AM)felinefan Wrote: perhaps also lead to the abandoning of the Mangheni-12
They abandoned Mhangeni 12 because they went back to oestrus and went to mate with Birminghams and sub could not follow them as they would be killed by Birminghams.
(02-06-2021, 04:26 AM)sik94 Wrote: I feel like Mohawk will be the new dominant male of the coalition, he definitely took on the lead role after the coalition splintered and Dark-Mane won't fight it with that paw injury. Fascinating interaction.
I do not think much changed from the 2018 regarding one of the Avoca having advantage over the other. They are all in the same age and in similar condition similarly as it was in 2018 and therefore I believe DM will be as dominant as he used to be if he will be indeed accepted back by his brothers.
(02-06-2021, 06:38 AM)sik94 Wrote: but Mohawk was always a fiesty character even back then
You confuse 2 different kind of agresssions, being aggressive towards other lions and towards vehicles are two different thinks. Agression towads vehicles come from not being familiar with vehicles and doesn't mean that lion which is aggressive towards vehicles will be aggressive towards other lions as well. In general Avocas even allowed Mhangeni, Nkuchuma and Talamati males to hang out with Nkuchuma pride for quite some time. I do not think any of the Northern Avocas is particularly aggressive towards other lions.
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02-06-2021, 03:35 PM( This post was last modified: 02-06-2021, 03:37 PM by Tr1x24 )
(02-06-2021, 02:15 PM)Potato Wrote: You confuse 2 different kind of agresssions, being aggressive towards other lions and towards vehicles are two different thinks. Agression towads vehicles come from not being familiar with vehicles and doesn't mean that lion which is aggressive towards vehicles will be aggressive towards other lions as well. In general Avocas even allowed Mhangeni, Nkuchuma and Talamati males to hang out with Nkuchuma pride for quite some time. I do not think any of the Northern Avocas is particularly aggressive towards other lions.
I think he meant that Mohawk is the most agressive/feisty out of the 3, which he is. Blondie and DM have more stable characters.
Mohawk was the only one who wasnt tolerate of those young males and was attacking them constantly, in which ultimately he succeed and oust them.
Also he is very agressive on a carcass, multiple footages of him beating other lionesses and not allowing them to eat.
Mohawk and Blondie as a duo reminds me of 2 Ross males, as Mohawk being Tyson, while Blondie Fabio in characters, althrough Tyson is even more agressive then Mohawk..
(02-06-2021, 03:49 PM)Tonpa Wrote: I figure this would be a good time to ask, but how would you go about idenitfying these cubs in the future? By counting the whiskers on the top row?
Yea, comparing whisker spots.
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(02-06-2021, 03:35 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Mohawk was the only one who wasnt tolerate of those young males and was attacking them constantly, in which ultimately he succeed and oust them.
Mohawk as well tolerated sub adult males for some time. He started being aggressive towards Nkuchuma male long time after takeover.
(02-06-2021, 03:35 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Also he is very agressive on a carcass, multiple footages of him beating other lionesses and not allowing them to eat.
Dominating lionesses on the kill is what just about any male do. It doesn't mean male is particularly aggressive. It is not like other Avocas or just about any other dominant male does not tend to dominate the kill.
(02-06-2021, 03:35 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Mohawk and Blondie as a duo reminds me of 2 Ross males, as Mohawk being Tyson, while Blondie Fabio in characters, althrough Tyson is even more agressive then Mohawk..
I do not think Mohawk and Tyson are same kind. Tyson is true warrior, not worry to go all in when confronting other male lion. We could see that against Scarface or against young Birmingham male while we never saw Mohawk do so. He never was seen going head on against his brothers for mating rights or against any other male. Both here as well as aginst Nkuchuma male he was just passively asserting dominance without blood real blood spiled. Also Tyson even through is smaller then his brother, is in fact more dominant one. Mohawk on the other hand in 2018 seemed to be the last of the 3 Avocas in regard amount of mating rights.
02-06-2021, 04:25 PM( This post was last modified: 02-06-2021, 04:42 PM by Tr1x24 )
(02-06-2021, 04:09 PM)Potato Wrote: Mohawk as well tolerated sub adult males for some time. He started being aggressive towards Nkuchuma male long time after takeover.
Yes, because when takeover happened NK male was not even a 2 yrs old, he started to attacking them when there was time for them to leave, 1 year later.
(02-06-2021, 04:09 PM)Potato Wrote: Dominating lionesses on the kill is what just about any male do. It doesn't mean male is particularly aggressive. It is not like other Avocas or just about any other dominant male does not tend to dominate the kill.
We didn't see that behavior from Blondie as often.
(02-06-2021, 04:09 PM)Potato Wrote: I do not think Mohawk and Tyson are same kind. Tyson is true warrior, not worry to go all in when confronting other male lion. We could see that against Scarface or against young Birmingham male while we never saw Mohawk do so. He never was seen going head on against his brothers for mating rights or against any other male. Both here as well as aginst Nkuchuma male he was just passively asserting dominance without blood real blood spiled. Also Tyson even through is smaller then his brother, is in fact more dominant one. Mohawk on the other hand in 2018 seemed to be the last of the 3 Avocas in regard amount of mating rights.
I literaly said that Tyson is even more agressive.
And Mohawk did fight and chase Nkuhuma male and injured him on a leg, Blondie didn't help him.. Mohawk actually succeed in what Tyson still didn't to this day.
And what mating rights have to do with agression? Tinyo is the most agressive of the Bboys, and we know that Nhenha and Mfumo had first mating rights, because they where stronger when fight happens.
Im not saying that Mohawk is mr T or Ross Tyson lvl of agresssion, im saying that Mohawk is the most agressive/fierce of the 3, which is true.
(02-06-2021, 04:25 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Yes, because when takeover happened NK male was not even a 2 yrs old, he started to attacking them when there was time for them to leave, 1 year later.
Ago of the Nkuchuma male does not matter since he was not sired by Avocas. Most of the newcoming males would kick or kill him right away when takeover happens.
(02-06-2021, 04:25 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: And what mating rights have to do with agression?
Everythink. That is where males aggresion really shows up. Any male can show his dominance over lionesses but taking a head on fight with another male lion requires yet another level of guts.
(02-06-2021, 04:25 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Tinyo is the most agressive of the Bboys, and we know that Nhenha and Mfumo had first mating rights, because they where stronger when fight happens.
Tinyo even through was significantly smaller than Nhenha and Mfumo was always challanging them over mating rights, not worry to get few scratches on to the nose at all. I did not meant that having lower amount of mating right means being less agressive, but not even trying to fight over mating rights meaing being not aggressive.
(02-06-2021, 04:25 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: im saying that Mohawk is the most agressive/fierce of the 3, which is true.
Tho you base it on that he chasse lionesses for the kill and that circled around Nkuchuma male asserting his dominance.
(02-06-2021, 04:48 PM)Potato Wrote: Tinyo even through was significantly smaller than Nhenha and Mfumo was always challanging them over mating rights, not worry to get few scratches on to the nose at all. I did not meant that having lower amount of mating right means being less agressive, but not even trying to fight over mating rights meaing being not aggressive.
And how do you know he was not challenging/fight his brothers? Because it was not filmed? Cmon..
We even see in this example rn, who is submissive and who not..
(02-06-2021, 04:48 PM)Potato Wrote: Ago of the Nkuchuma male does not matter since he was not sired by Avocas. Most of the newcoming males would kick or kill him right away when takeover happens.
Just like mentioned Ross males also did with Avoca/Giraffe offspring? Theres many examples of new males adopting other males offspring.
Blondie and DM also tolerated those subs, so that has nothing to do with who is more agressive between them.
(02-06-2021, 04:48 PM)Potato Wrote: Tho you base it on that he chasse lionesses for the kill and that circled around Nkuchuma male asserting his dominance.
Yes, because we didn't see that kind of behavior from Blondie or DM, those 2 have more stable characters.
Did you forget that he fight Nkuhuma male? Nkuhuma male was injured then, seen limping and was not returned to the pride for over a month, after that he returned few times but when Avocas where not around..
Blondie was never seen or rumored to chase or fight young males, it was always Mohawk alone.
(02-06-2021, 02:15 PM)Potato Wrote: I do not think much changed from the 2018 regarding one of the Avoca having advantage over the other. They are all in the same age and in similar condition similarly as it was in 2018 and therefore I believe DM will be as dominant as he used to be if he will be indeed accepted back by his brothers.
You confuse 2 different kind of agresssions, being aggressive towards other lions and towards vehicles are two different thinks. Agression towads vehicles come from not being familiar with vehicles and doesn't mean that lion which is aggressive towards vehicles will be aggressive towards other lions as well. In general Avocas even allowed Mhangeni, Nkuchuma and Talamati males to hang out with Nkuchuma pride for quite some time. I do not think any of the Northern Avocas is particularly aggressive towards other lions.
on your first point, that could also happen but I think DarkMane and Mohawk will always be butting heads now because Mohawk isn't the same guy he was 2 years ago. The hierarchy isn't exactly the same and I think Mohawk won't give DarkMane any extra space.
on your second point, I said nothing about aggression toward vehicles. Mohawk is the most aggressive of the 3 and is usually the first to start a fight, he's definitely the least passive of the 3 and won't just give into DarkMane like Blondie might.
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(02-06-2021, 07:50 PM)sik94 Wrote: DarkMane and Mohawk will always be butting heads now because Mohawk isn't the same guy he was 2 years ago
What exactly do you mean? Why would Mohawk have better chances against DM than he had in 2018? Mohawk potentially is even slightly older then the other 2 which could even give him some little advantage in 2018 which he won't have now. DM's paw injury could be an issue tho, but it isn't really bad injury so I believe that DM will still be the most dominant one. We will see about that tho.
(02-06-2021, 07:50 PM)sik94 Wrote: said nothing about aggression toward vehicles.
You said "but Mohawk was always a fiesty character even back then." and back then vehicles were the only think Mahawk showed agression to. Avocas takeover of the north was very peacefull. They did not atack adult lionesses, nor subadults in taken prides nor they even fought eachothers for mating right (or at least they fought so little that neither of such interactions was cought, nor they were seen carrying any post-fight injurys). They all were quite passive back then.
(02-06-2021, 07:50 PM)sik94 Wrote: and is usually the first to start a fight
But who was he actually first to fight with? Lionesses on the kill? Young Nuchuma male?
02-06-2021, 09:25 PM( This post was last modified: 02-06-2021, 09:27 PM by Gijima )
The Avocas as a whole never felt the need to compete or fight with each other. The Southern Avocas have been very aggressive to outsiders, but they have no internal conflict whatsoever. In fact everyone talks about how well they get along even when females are around. That’s the same with N Avocas.... Dark Mane was bigger but didn’t use his size to bully his two brothers. Mohawk, when he was healthier, didn’t take advantage or beatup Blondie.
That doesn’t mean though that they are passive. There has not been one instance recorded with the Nkuhuma Male just hanging out with the pride while Mohawk was around.... the subs always left and spent most of 2018-2019 avoiding the Avocas with Nana. Very different from BYM who has been with the Ross Males since he was what... 2.5 years old? That doesn’t mean the Ross Males aren’t dominant... it just means there’s no standard way all males behave. Each situation is different.
I also think if Dark Mane rejoins, he will be an equal. Yes Mohawk is more volatile, but like I said he didn’t use that to overthrow or dominate Blondie. Instead, he mates just as much and can peacefully feed side by side with his brother as rarely seen in other coalitions..
(02-06-2021, 09:25 PM)Gijima Wrote: The Avocas as a whole never felt the need to compete or fight with each other. The Southern Avocas have been very aggressive to outsiders, but they have no internal conflict whatsoever. In fact everyone talks about how well they get along even when females are around. That’s the same with N Avocas.... Dark Mane was bigger but didn’t use his size to bully his two brothers. Mohawk, when he was healthier, didn’t take advantage or beatup Blondie.
That doesn’t mean though that they are passive. There has not been one instance recorded with the Nkuhuma Male just hanging out with the pride while Mohawk was around.... the subs always left and spent most of 2018-2019 avoiding the Avocas with Nana. Very different from BYM who has been with the Ross Males since he was what... 2.5 years old? That doesn’t mean the Ross Males aren’t dominant... it just means there’s no standard way all males behave. Each situation is different.
I also think if Dark Mane rejoins, he will be an equal. Yes Mohawk is more volatile, but like I said he didn’t use that to overthrow or dominate Blondie. Instead, he mates just as much and can peacefully feed side by side with his brother as rarely seen in other coalitions..
Volatile is the perfect word to describe Mohawk.
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