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Lions of Manyeleti

BigLion39 Offline
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Any word on ZigZag lately? Is he recovering?
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Tonpa Offline
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Nharu and red road came south, chased silver eye and wonky eye and went back north 

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Cath2020 Offline
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(02-17-2022, 10:33 PM)RookiePundit Wrote:
(02-14-2022, 11:47 PM)criollo2mil Wrote:
(02-14-2022, 10:35 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: With Lambile also having that "skinny" condition/health problem like his Nharu brothers Scar and Limper, i wonder if that has something to do with genetics..

We dont know about 2 Nharu brothers who disappeared in Kruger, but out of remaining 4 we know, only Skorro Jr. appears full healthy.

I’ve had this same theory / concern.  As if there was some sort of genetic or nutritional indeficiency of those cubs.  But I can’t quite nail that down because the females littermates DO NOT suffer this loss of condition.  Unless it became exasperated by the stress of ‘nomadic’ life somehow.   But then again, Lambile was never quite a nomad.   It’s very mysterious to me.  How so many of them suffer from maintaining condition.

Could be always something linked to Y chromozome pair like daltonism or hemophilia in humans.


I know hemophilia is linked to the X chromosome for sure, not the Y.  I'm thinking that some of the female pride members could be carriers, passing down their affected X chromosome to their sons (50% chance).  On the other hand, it could be Y related, but the sons of Sizanani are definitely much more affected and sickly looking.  Sizanani never started to get too skinny except after an alleged hunting accident, when he was already slightly past his prime.  Whatever the case is, it's definitely one where the breeding fitness went downhill.  Males in their prime are not supposed to be wasting away, not being able to put on weight, even after reg. meals.
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Tr1x24 Offline
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(02-18-2022, 05:22 PM)Tonpa Wrote: Nharu and red road came south, chased silver eye and wonky eye and went back north 

Quite strange behavior of Silver Eyed, not hanging with 2 Talamati gruops yet with unrelated male.
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DARK MANE Offline
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(02-18-2022, 07:46 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Quite strange behavior of Silver Eyed, not hanging with 2 Talamati gruops yet with unrelated male.
So that means, 2 talamatis girls are with S8 imbali males, 2 are roaming near nharus and RRM, DM is alone, so only one adult lioness is left with subs(2M, 4-5F). Is it good???? 
I think talamatis lionesses are looking for a strong coalition to breed.
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Tr1x24 Offline
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(02-18-2022, 08:15 PM)DARK MANE Wrote: So that means, 2 talamatis girls are with S8 imbali males, 2 are roaming near nharus and RRM, DM is alone, so only one adult lioness is left with subs(2M, 4-5F). Is it good???? 
I think talamatis lionesses are looking for a strong coalition to breed.

There should be 3 adult with Imbali.
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RookiePundit Offline
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(02-18-2022, 07:37 PM)Cath2020 Wrote:
(02-17-2022, 10:33 PM)RookiePundit Wrote:
(02-14-2022, 11:47 PM)criollo2mil Wrote:
(02-14-2022, 10:35 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: With Lambile also having that "skinny" condition/health problem like his Nharu brothers Scar and Limper, i wonder if that has something to do with genetics..

We dont know about 2 Nharu brothers who disappeared in Kruger, but out of remaining 4 we know, only Skorro Jr. appears full healthy.

I’ve had this same theory / concern.  As if there was some sort of genetic or nutritional indeficiency of those cubs.  But I can’t quite nail that down because the females littermates DO NOT suffer this loss of condition.  Unless it became exasperated by the stress of ‘nomadic’ life somehow.   But then again, Lambile was never quite a nomad.   It’s very mysterious to me.  How so many of them suffer from maintaining condition.

Could be always something linked to Y chromozome pair like daltonism or hemophilia in humans.


I know hemophilia is linked to the X chromosome for sure, not the Y.  I'm thinking that some of the female pride members could be carriers, passing down their affected X chromosome to their sons (50% chance).  On the other hand, it could be Y related, but the sons of Sizanani are definitely much more affected and sickly looking.  Sizanani never started to get too skinny except after an alleged hunting accident, when he was already slightly past his prime.  Whatever the case is, it's definitely one where the breeding fitness went downhill.  Males in their prime are not supposed to be wasting away, not being able to put on weight, even after reg. meals.

It is located on the XY chromosome pair, ie the part where the allele is, is on the X, but not the Y. I.e. in females if there is the recessive faulty one on one of them, as long as it is overruled by the dominant "normal" one on the other it does not express itself. In males however there is not such second X and thus the genetic information is applied and the gene expresses itself. Similarly a lot of colour variation are like that, in cats and numerous birds in aviculture like budgerigars (however the Z and W genes in birds are switched in birds and males are ZZ similar like females are XX in mammals instead and femals are ZW like males are XY in mammals).

If it is passed down by a male (Sizanani being the suspect) than it would have to at least co-dominant and not recessive. Or perhaps it is recessive and only one of the Thanda Impis has it as well as some females. But then, why it does gt expressed only in males than and does it? Could be more complex, multi-allele thing or it is not genetic at all and this sample if individual is just a noticeable concidence or envormentally driven.

Anyway Manyeleti is not in the best shape regard diversity of the gene pool there, however I am not sure how much Sizanani in particular was related to prides there, rather Birmingham pride and Matimba males genes are going on there. And it is likely to get worse for a while, until some numerous coalition moves on and reshuffle things.
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Tonpa Offline
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Mbiris by Wesley Hill
Looks like 3 lionesses and two orpen cubs 

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Tonpa Offline
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Seems the Kruger male is taking over the Imbali Pride

LIONS OF THE MLUWATI CONCESSION: 

The Hamiltons Pride:
The Hamiltons Pride’s dynamics have shifted considerably over the last couple of months as a result of the abundance of water and prey species. The Pride has split into various splinter groups averaging between four and five adult females and their young. These groups structures, however, seem to be quite fluid and we enjoyed one sighting of the entire Pride together for a brief time. It made us reminisce about the magnificent sightings that we used to have of the entire Pride of 23 members during one of the worst droughts experienced in the Kruger between 2015 to 2016. The larger pride numbers allowed the Pride to catch larger prey such as buffalo and giraffe when smaller prey species were scarce. Now in the time of plenty, the Pride seems to manage much better in smaller groups. The Groups are generally seen close to Hamiltons Tented Camp, S125 North and South, and some of the smaller groups go up to the S125 as far as the tar road.
Blondie and Madala continue to enjoy their stronghold over the Southeastern parts of the Concession. Their return to the Concession has provided us with a valuable lesson on male lion dispersion and behaviour. Several years ago, the males started on the Concession as a newly territorial coalition. Driven by the innate desire to spread their genetics, the males then ventured further into the Kruger as their territory expanded in search of other Prides. Eventually, the males disappeared from the Concession—and from the Hamiltons Pride—for a considerable period. Then, a couple of years ago, they suddenly reappeared on the Concession in the worst possible condition imaginable. At the time, the fluctuating male lion dynamics in the area resulted in a few occasions where we saw them in a condition that made us believe that we would never see them again. Today, however, Blondie and Madala have now sired the last four generations of Hamiltons Pride cubs and are in fantastic condition. It is a lesson that shows us that life is truly what we make of it!

The Imbali Pride:
We are delighted to share that our Imbali Pride has well and true returned home. As our regular Newsletter readers may already know, the Pride had spent the better part of 2021 outside of the Concession as they moved further west as far as to the northern Sabi Sands along with a male lion who used to be referred to as Einstein while he was on the Concession. He is better known these days as the S8 male. It appears that competition from other Prides in that area have pushed the Imbali Pride back towards the Concession. They have been spending a lot of time around Predator Plains as well as Imbali Safari Lodge and the Staff Village. It is a treat for all of us on the Concession to have this special group of lions back in their homeland. Their incredible story of how a group of four breakaway lionesses had their start as a Pride in 2015 is one that will be forever cherished as an important part of our Concession’s history. We often think about those precious moments when they used the Mluwati Riverbed as a den site for their first litters of cubs, and we had the absolute privilege of being able to watch the cubs grow and be part of their family. The Imbali Pride truly forms the backbone of this area, and it has been a pleasure for both our guests and staff to listen to marvellous sounds of them moving around the Lodge throughout the night.

Torchwood Male (Kruger male)
The return of the Imbali Pride has also produced frequent sightings of this visitor from the Sabi Sands. Named after a particular area in the northern part of the Sabi Sands, this male seems to be spending a lot of time with the Imbali Pride female and has consequently ventured onto the Concession a few times in their pursuit. On one memorable sighting, the lionesses had managed to kill a baby buffalo close to Predator Plains—only for Torchwood Male to appear from the thickets and chase them off their quarry. The Pride then spent the next two days on the cutline watching as this beautiful male devoured their carcass totally. It will certainly be interesting to see whether the Torchwood Male will establish a more permanent presence in this area as the Imbali Pride settles in their new territorial stronghold.

Son of the Skybed Males:
A son of one of the famous males from Shimangwaneni, also known as the Skybed Males, made a second appearance on the Concession of the festive season. He was found crossing over Hoyo Hoyo Plains, heading back west through the block. There have been rumours circulating amongst the guides that the Skybed boys have taken over the Breakaway Talamati Pride—however, this has not yet been confirmed.

Talamati Breakaway Pride:
We still see this small group of females from time to time. In general, they move between S145, Ridge Road, Hoyo Hoyo Safari Lodge, and the Generator area. However, they never spend more than 3–4 days in the area and it looks as though they are still looking to establish a permanent territory for themselves. It also appears that competition from some of the larger prides in the area is also influencing their movements.

https://imbali.com/kruger-march-musings-...tter-2022/
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Tr1x24 Offline
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(02-22-2022, 04:47 PM)Tonpa Wrote: Torchwood Male (Kruger male)
The return of the Imbali Pride has also produced frequent sightings of this visitor from the Sabi Sands. Named after a particular area in the northern part of the Sabi Sands, this male seems to be spending a lot of time with the Imbali Pride female and has consequently ventured onto the Concession a few times in their pursuit. On one memorable sighting, the lionesses had managed to kill a baby buffalo close to Predator Plains—only for Torchwood Male to appear from the thickets and chase them off their quarry. The Pride then spent the next two days on the cutline watching as this beautiful male devoured their carcass totally. It will certainly be interesting to see whether the Torchwood Male will establish a more permanent presence in this area as the Imbali Pride settles in their new territorial stronghold

Does that mean that other Kruger male is gone? No sightings of him for few months now..
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DARK MANE Offline
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(02-22-2022, 04:47 PM)Tonpa Wrote: Today, however, Blondie and Madala
Who are these blondie and madala? If they are ruling over hamilton pride since 2015-16, then they must be 11ish.
(02-22-2022, 04:47 PM)Tonpa Wrote: He is better known these days as the S8 male. It appears that competition from other Prides in that area have pushed the Imbali Pride back towards the Concession.

Are the 3 talamati lionesses that left talamati pride and move with S8 male are with imbali pride or seprate? How many cubs they sire?? 
Any idea how many male subs are in imbali pride? 
(02-22-2022, 04:47 PM)Tonpa Wrote: Torchwood Male (Kruger male)

Is he the Torchwood male ( son of HB matimbas) or kruger male ( protector of Torchwood pride). 
(02-22-2022, 04:47 PM)Tonpa Wrote: Skybed boys have taken over the Breakaway Talamati Pride

U mean the last remaining skybed son( his brother/ partner was no more since last year) has came to northern sabi sands and onon the verge of acquiring talamati breakaway pride?? 
If yes, that a great news.
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Tonpa Offline
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(02-22-2022, 06:42 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(02-22-2022, 04:47 PM)Tonpa Wrote: Torchwood Male (Kruger male)
The return of the Imbali Pride has also produced frequent sightings of this visitor from the Sabi Sands. Named after a particular area in the northern part of the Sabi Sands, this male seems to be spending a lot of time with the Imbali Pride female and has consequently ventured onto the Concession a few times in their pursuit. On one memorable sighting, the lionesses had managed to kill a baby buffalo close to Predator Plains—only for Torchwood Male to appear from the thickets and chase them off their quarry. The Pride then spent the next two days on the cutline watching as this beautiful male devoured their carcass totally. It will certainly be interesting to see whether the Torchwood Male will establish a more permanent presence in this area as the Imbali Pride settles in their new territorial stronghold

Does that mean that other Kruger male is gone? No sightings of him for few months now..

Yeah nothing since September I think
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Tonpa Offline
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(02-22-2022, 06:43 PM)DARK MANE Wrote:
(02-22-2022, 04:47 PM)Tonpa Wrote: Today, however, Blondie and Madala
Who are these blondie and madala? If they are ruling over hamilton pride since 2015-16, then they must be 11ish.
(02-22-2022, 04:47 PM)Tonpa Wrote: He is better known these days as the S8 male. It appears that competition from other Prides in that area have pushed the Imbali Pride back towards the Concession.

Are the 3 talamati lionesses that left talamati pride and move with S8 male are with imbali pride or seprate? How many cubs they sire?? 
Any idea how many male subs are in imbali pride? 
(02-22-2022, 04:47 PM)Tonpa Wrote: Torchwood Male (Kruger male)

Is he the Torchwood male ( son of HB matimbas) or kruger male ( protector of Torchwood pride). 
(02-22-2022, 04:47 PM)Tonpa Wrote: Skybed boys have taken over the Breakaway Talamati Pride

U mean the last remaining skybed son( his brother/ partner was no more since last year) has came to northern sabi sands and onon the verge of acquiring talamati breakaway pride?? 
If yes, that a great news.

From what others have mentioned here the blondie and madala is a misidentifcation of the two Nwaswitsontso males. Blondie and Madala are elsewhere in kruger I believe

Yeah the kruger male

There is a second Talamati breakaway active in the Mluwati concession, believed to possibly be the remnants of the lionesses that split when the avocas took over in 2018
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Tr1x24 Offline
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(02-22-2022, 06:49 PM)Tonpa Wrote: There is a second Talamati breakaway active in the Mluwati concession, believed to possibly be the remnants of the lionesses that split when the avocas took over in 2018

I dont think theres another Talamati breakeaway, they are prob reffering to females that left with Imbali male.
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Tonpa Offline
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(02-22-2022, 06:55 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(02-22-2022, 06:49 PM)Tonpa Wrote: There is a second Talamati breakaway active in the Mluwati concession, believed to possibly be the remnants of the lionesses that split when the avocas took over in 2018

I dont think theres another Talamati breakeaway, they are prob reffering to females that left with Imbali male.

Hmmm dunno, those females are denning on the Sabi Sands/Manyeleti border near Pungwe
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