There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
A tender moment between one of the Sweni males and the lioness from the Sweni pride on S100, Kruger National Park. - Posted: Jan, 2020.
- Image By: Hanno Erasmus.
TBT - A little white princess playing with her sibling under a watchful eye of her mother at Ngala Game Reserve. - Posted: Jan 12, 2020. - Image By: Graham Adkins.
Richard Lane
Late afternoon and the storms that had swept across the Mara region that day had just subsided a bit although the rains were still persistent and the Lions seemed to be having fun with both the pride males Karibu and Rafika chasing each other and letting of some pent up energy before homing in on a few of the nearby Lionesses .
This was taken back in Nov 2017 Northern Mara conservancy region.
(01-13-2020, 11:11 AM)Spalea Wrote: What does it happen ? A male lion perhaps deceived having not grabed a corpse up to the tree turns its frustration against its partner.
Lions are pretty big which is why it makes me really uncomfortable when people start hanging out with lions and other big cats. I know some of these guys are experts and lion-whisperers and tiger-whisperers etc it doesn't change the fact that one swipe of a claw and that's that for the human and the animal. A lot of the times all this is wrapped in a conservation/animal-welfare excuses, but I just don't see how this benefits the animal.
These are complex matters and maybe impossible for anyone to say, that completely wrong or right. If we think risks, it has to be remembered that these animals have been captive since cubs. Some orphans saved from wild and some born in captivity. So people who raise them know these animals perfectly and risks are minimal. We have boxers going in the ring and goal is to hit other one to the head as much as possible and knock opponent out. Every now and then other one dies. One swipe even from big animal isn´t lethal usually, unless very unlucky situation. While there are risks, there is no need over- or underestimate those. Of course if for some reason animal would be enraged it would be different thing, but these captive animals seem to love their owners, when raised in good condition, so it´s difficult to see there some major risks.
What purpose they serve then... well, Finnish "bear man" Sulo Karjalainen has been doing a lot of bear research same time, when taking care of many orphan bears and raising from cubs to adults. He have had one accident during many decades and that bear was exception, it came to him when somewhat older than cubs usually. He learned a lesson and after that no dangerous situations.
And is it excuse then to talk about conservation.... Mongolia wouldn´t have their wild horses anymore without zoos and conservation program... If these lion whisperers etc. are genuine people, trying to get funding to conservation, doing research, keeping people aware about desperate situation in wild... are we talking about excuses or about people, who really care? Who really have committed themselves to do something concrete to help endangered species etc. I´m sure, that there are many private owners, who shouldn´t be allowed to have tigers and lions, because they have them from wrong reasons. But I wouldn´t judge all just like that. This Kevin Richardson for instance seems to have genuine bond with his lions and hyenas. Is it, what he does right or wrong.... I hope, that it is how it looks like to be at least and he is doing what he believes in and tries to help lions as species as good as he can.
I appreciate what these individual's are doing and acknowledge that they probably do more for wildlife and conservation than I have ever done or am capable of. However, there are tens or hundreds of scientists and conservationists working away in obscurity studying everything from a fungus spore to a continent wide weather phenomenon and their work is equally if not more valuable and commendable. I don't have a problem with people studying animals, what does make me uncomfortable is when that distinction breaks down and the animals start becoming a stage prop for the human involved so that the narrative is no longer about say lions or tigers but about the individual.
All that said we are already reaching catastrophic levels of environmental loss and I hope we can back out of a disaster of our own making so discussions like this become unnecessary.
Lions are pretty big which is why it makes me really uncomfortable when people start hanging out with lions and other big cats. I know some of these guys are experts and lion-whisperers and tiger-whisperers etc it doesn't change the fact that one swipe of a claw and that's that for the human and the animal. A lot of the times all this is wrapped in a conservation/animal-welfare excuses, but I just don't see how this benefits the animal.
These are complex matters and maybe impossible for anyone to say, that completely wrong or right. If we think risks, it has to be remembered that these animals have been captive since cubs. Some orphans saved from wild and some born in captivity. So people who raise them know these animals perfectly and risks are minimal. We have boxers going in the ring and goal is to hit other one to the head as much as possible and knock opponent out. Every now and then other one dies. One swipe even from big animal isn´t lethal usually, unless very unlucky situation. While there are risks, there is no need over- or underestimate those. Of course if for some reason animal would be enraged it would be different thing, but these captive animals seem to love their owners, when raised in good condition, so it´s difficult to see there some major risks.
What purpose they serve then... well, Finnish "bear man" Sulo Karjalainen has been doing a lot of bear research same time, when taking care of many orphan bears and raising from cubs to adults. He have had one accident during many decades and that bear was exception, it came to him when somewhat older than cubs usually. He learned a lesson and after that no dangerous situations.
And is it excuse then to talk about conservation.... Mongolia wouldn´t have their wild horses anymore without zoos and conservation program... If these lion whisperers etc. are genuine people, trying to get funding to conservation, doing research, keeping people aware about desperate situation in wild... are we talking about excuses or about people, who really care? Who really have committed themselves to do something concrete to help endangered species etc. I´m sure, that there are many private owners, who shouldn´t be allowed to have tigers and lions, because they have them from wrong reasons. But I wouldn´t judge all just like that. This Kevin Richardson for instance seems to have genuine bond with his lions and hyenas. Is it, what he does right or wrong.... I hope, that it is how it looks like to be at least and he is doing what he believes in and tries to help lions as species as good as he can.
I appreciate what these individual's are doing and acknowledge that they probably do more for wildlife and conservation than I have ever done or am capable of. However, there are tens or hundreds of scientists and conservationists working away in obscurity studying everything from a fungus spore to a continent wide weather phenomenon and their work is equally if not more valuable and commendable. I don't have a problem with people studying animals, what does make me uncomfortable is when that distinction breaks down and the animals start becoming a stage prop for the human involved so that the narrative is no longer about say lions or tigers but about the individual.
All that said we are already reaching catastrophic levels of environmental loss and I hope we can back out of a disaster of our own making so discussions like this become unnecessary.
I do personally disagree with these peoples methods, showing the public that you can be friends with these predators and showing an unrealistic image about how these animals actually are in a natural setting. Hence why I think you see so many people arround on social network platforms crying about wild carnivores doing what they have done for millions of years.
Wild animals should be the ambasadors for Conservation, not animals in captivity with a "human friend"... Maybe they care about the animals and everything and I think most people do, but in my opinion they do more harm than good.
Lions are pretty big which is why it makes me really uncomfortable when people start hanging out with lions and other big cats. I know some of these guys are experts and lion-whisperers and tiger-whisperers etc it doesn't change the fact that one swipe of a claw and that's that for the human and the animal. A lot of the times all this is wrapped in a conservation/animal-welfare excuses, but I just don't see how this benefits the animal.
These are complex matters and maybe impossible for anyone to say, that completely wrong or right. If we think risks, it has to be remembered that these animals have been captive since cubs. Some orphans saved from wild and some born in captivity. So people who raise them know these animals perfectly and risks are minimal. We have boxers going in the ring and goal is to hit other one to the head as much as possible and knock opponent out. Every now and then other one dies. One swipe even from big animal isn´t lethal usually, unless very unlucky situation. While there are risks, there is no need over- or underestimate those. Of course if for some reason animal would be enraged it would be different thing, but these captive animals seem to love their owners, when raised in good condition, so it´s difficult to see there some major risks.
What purpose they serve then... well, Finnish "bear man" Sulo Karjalainen has been doing a lot of bear research same time, when taking care of many orphan bears and raising from cubs to adults. He have had one accident during many decades and that bear was exception, it came to him when somewhat older than cubs usually. He learned a lesson and after that no dangerous situations.
And is it excuse then to talk about conservation.... Mongolia wouldn´t have their wild horses anymore without zoos and conservation program... If these lion whisperers etc. are genuine people, trying to get funding to conservation, doing research, keeping people aware about desperate situation in wild... are we talking about excuses or about people, who really care? Who really have committed themselves to do something concrete to help endangered species etc. I´m sure, that there are many private owners, who shouldn´t be allowed to have tigers and lions, because they have them from wrong reasons. But I wouldn´t judge all just like that. This Kevin Richardson for instance seems to have genuine bond with his lions and hyenas. Is it, what he does right or wrong.... I hope, that it is how it looks like to be at least and he is doing what he believes in and tries to help lions as species as good as he can.
I appreciate what these individual's are doing and acknowledge that they probably do more for wildlife and conservation than I have ever done or am capable of. However, there are tens or hundreds of scientists and conservationists working away in obscurity studying everything from a fungus spore to a continent wide weather phenomenon and their work is equally if not more valuable and commendable. I don't have a problem with people studying animals, what does make me uncomfortable is when that distinction breaks down and the animals start becoming a stage prop for the human involved so that the narrative is no longer about say lions or tigers but about the individual.
All that said we are already reaching catastrophic levels of environmental loss and I hope we can back out of a disaster of our own making so discussions like this become unnecessary.
These are never simple things and there are always different kind of points of views. I don´t judge these people in the first place because they can be genuine and they also provide many times good information. If they would be just some egoistic jerks making money, they would never be able to bond with their animals in the way they do. For instance this person I mentioned, Sulo Karjalainen said once, that what he does ends when he dies if his body just remains functional so far. He haven´t got rich, he can´t have long holidays as people with normal jobs etc. That level of commitment is something what most people can´t even imagine unless stopping to think for a moment. Those bears of his aren´t as nice if some stranger tries to go in the cage. What I´ve seen about Kevin Richardson, I assume that pretty much same thing. I wouldn´t go in the same enclosure with his lions to try my luck even though he can go there with no danger. Maybe he can have holidays sometimes, I don´t know.
Lion pictures and videos
