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Large male tigers from India (Videos Only)
Large male tigers from India (Videos Only)
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Large male tigers from India (Videos Only)
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surviving on his own even at this old age without any assistance and live baits! he set the bar so high, what he has accomplished in his life is unheard of in the world of tigers. having sired over 40 cubs and surviving to 17-18 years of age in the wild. a true legend !
@Roflcopters, Waghdoh isn’t the only one. I posted about Betal aka T3 of Panna in the Tiger Directory thread couple of days ago. He has also fathered over 40 cubs and in conservation terms matters more than any male tiger in the last decade.
He was seen with a gash on his legs pushed into the tourism zone. He is 17+ as well. The Karai Ghati male from Kanha will most probably be the same age as well. Speaking of Waghdoh, do you know who are his male cubs other than Shiva? I have never heard of any male tiger being his son which is strange.
i disagree with the T3 statement, Bajrang of Tadoba has sired more cubs than any male known to us presently. he has sired around 50 + cubs with 9 different tigresses. that’s the most any male tiger has ever produced in my last decade of following tigers. Wagdoh, T3 and B2 are all pretty close. i would even add Star male of Tipeshwar to the list and Raiyakassa male of Pench, MP.
Wagdoh’s male cubs, most of them when they were sub-adults mostly moved out of Tadoba. never to be seen again. most likely in search for territory, they are probably somewhere in Brahmapuri forest or the areas beyond. Shiva is the only one that stayed around.
Bajrang may have fathered more cubs, but T3 revived an entire tiger reserve. Panna has 50 odd tigers, more than 60% are his progeny and about 10 or so have made journeys to other parks. That’s why he is the most important male tiger of the last decade.Would Tadoba be flourishing without Bajrang? Sure. Would Panna make the remarkable comeback without T3? You know the answer.
And, just like Waghdoh, he is very old, and still alive and kicking.
two different tigers with different roles, ultimately the goal was the same. to rule and spread their legendary genes. T3 was a tiger that was introduced to Panna with the intention of growing the tiger population since the original gene-pool went locally extinct. he played a huge part for Panna, a legend in his own right. in his beginning days, T3 for years had almost no competition since there wasn’t any other tigers around. Bajrang came from a park where most sub-adults are hardly ever seen in their adult stages. competition is far more fierce, higher density of tigers. larger population means more conflict for space, which for the most part has been limited everywhere in Tadoba. despite all the odds, Bajrang has remained a force for quite sometime. he has been seen around majority of the territories known to us. from Moharli, Teliya, Junona buffer, Dewada buffer, Jamni, Khutwanda, Wagdoh area, Fire line and all the way to Kolara buffer. each of these areas are ruled by multiple females but there is one male that rules it all. with the exception of Kolara buffer. Bajrang has ruled all those areas and has a record of mating with 8 different females in the same season. for him to turn up with 50+ cubs is far more impressive than what T3 has done. even by numbers. Bajrang has him beat. 2014-2021 (this is all the time, it took for a male to sire 50 + cubs in one of the busiest park vs T3, who has been around since late 2009 and has a official record of siring close to 36-40 cubs since 2009-2021. it’s not even close. if Bajrang has a couple more seasons left in him. he will be setting new records.
Quote:Would Panna make the remarkable comeback without T3? you know the answer who knows, T3 was randomly selected for the project and he turned out to be a spectacular specimen. capable of pulling it off and i have no doubt, if given the chance. any other male could’ve probably pulled it off. you can’t underestimate tigers. each individual has a lot to offer if given the opportunity. just my two cents.
@Roflcopters, Firstly, T3 wasn’t randomly selected. There were certain criteria that Panna Reserve director and NTCA had put forth, and he matched those. You say any other tiger could have done the same that T3 did, except we do have Sariska as a parallel example. Has any Sariska male have done what T3 did?
Secondly, you talked about the competition for Bajrang and lack of it for T3 and how he mated with 8 tigresses in a year. Fair point. But, even you would agree that it much easier to father cubs in a populated park than a deserted park on account of there being considerably less breeding females. T3 fathered cubs in a park with an almost non-existent population. Ask yourself this: How long did it take Panna to even get 8 breeding females? T1 and T2 were excellent in breeding but not T4 and T5. T5 only raised 1 cub. And, T4 died while raising her 3rd litter having abandoned her second litter. Unless he mated with his own progeny, he had to wait for other females to father his litter that is not an issue for Bajrang who had a park with over 50 females, while T3 had 2 to begin with. Finally, you are counting the number of cubs of Bajrang as those he sired, I am counting T3’s numbers as those who made it to adulthood. Bajrang’s cub numbers who made it to adulthood would be lower than 40 that T3 managed. Not to mention, there were rumours that he had fathered a litter back in Pench, that is why he was going back. This is a very similar situation to deciding who is more important to conservation : T15 aka Collarwali of Pench who raised 26 cubs or T2 of Panna who has raised 21 cubs.
i don’t mean to be rude but i have no idea what you’re talking about, i only jumped into the debate to counter your claims of T3 having the most cubs. something that you mentioned in another thread as well, which clearly isn’t the case. you’re still new and your lack of understanding is blatantly obvious. i can’t continue any further. it’s a waste of time.
@Roflcopters, you need to go back and read again. I never said anything about “most cubs”. I said “most important male in terms of conservation in the last decade”.
My exact quote: “He is 17 years old now, but, still looks decent. Very few tigers can claim to have fathered over 40 cubs.“ So, before you accuse me of all kinds of things, how about you read what I wrote again? (05-12-2021, 04:10 AM)Roflcopters Wrote: two different tigers with different roles, ultimately the goal was the same. to rule and spread their legendary genes. T3 was a tiger that was introduced to Panna with the intention of growing the tiger population since the original gene-pool went locally extinct. he played a huge part for Panna, a legend in his own right. in his beginning days, T3 for years had almost no competition since there wasn’t any other tigers around. Bajrang came from a park where most sub-adults are hardly ever seen in their adult stages. competition is far more fierce, higher density of tigers. larger population means more conflict for space, which for the most part has been limited everywhere in Tadoba. despite all the odds, Bajrang has remained a force for quite sometime. he has been seen around majority of the territories known to us. from Moharli, Teliya, Junona buffer, Dewada buffer, Jamni, Khutwanda, Wagdoh area, Fire line and all the way to Kolara buffer. each of these areas are ruled by multiple females but there is one male that rules it all. with the exception of Kolara buffer. Bajrang has ruled all those areas and has a record of mating with 8 different females in the same season. for him to turn up with 50+ cubs is far more impressive than what T3 has done. even by numbers. Bajrang has him beat. 2014-2021 (this is all the time, it took for a male to sire 50 + cubs in one of the busiest park vs T3, who has been around since late 2009 and has a official record of siring close to 36-40 cubs since 2009-2021. it’s not even close. if Bajrang has a couple more seasons left in him. he will be setting new records. I agree with you. Betal/T3 was just extremely lucky. Not try to disagree Ashutosh, but I don't know T3's life was so perfect if he stayed in Pench. ST4 and ST6 in Sariska also competed each other unlike T3 was the only reintroduced male in Panna. I didn't even know that T3 had more than 40 cubs while he just stayed there as 1 introduced male. Most of his cubs don't really have to compete against further tigers (non family) unlike other reserves. It's pity that tigers like Umarpani, Chota Munna, Khali, Raja, Mangu, Banka and many great tigers don't succeed well unlike lucky T3. I am not going to talk about Madla or Hairyfoot and their offspring since tigers were extinct in Panna. Sauraha tiger in Chitwan also had more than 40 cubs. He was lucky too since there was not many big tigers like him in his time (I am not sure about this 100% since it was difficult to study tigers back then), but his life wasn't easy like T3. This guy had a simple life because of humans since we act as a god to wild animals today. I wished scientists picked Bamera or Rajaram or Chota Munna or Bheema or Veeru to reintroduce program in Panna along with female tigers in Pench and other reserve in central India instead of T3 and their sisters. If we look 1] Poor captive tigers in Southeast Asia because of Chinese and Vietnamese. 2] All of demolished animals in Asia and Africa (not just tigers) because of western europeans' killings during the early 20th century. 3] Today's South China tiger even though they lived across China. T3 definitely lived perfect life thanks to humans. This is the same for human world too. Bill Gates' kids. Some of my friends from secondary schools who's appeared in World Cup, NBA and MLB. Not any of sport players will become like Michael Jordan or Messi even though they were more athletic than normal people. Why would Edison was so jealous and tried to bully natural genius like Tesla. If Albert Einstein, Issac Newton, Charles Darwin, Charles Lyell, and other great scientists were born in Africa, then they would just live and died like other Africans from civil wars, slavery, wild animals and other factors. Life is UNFAIR, but that's just the way of this world is. What was the exact size of T3? Because I heard T3 is average size in Pench, but he is the biggest Panna tiger. If T3 was around 240 kg, then he couldn't be average size in Pench too. How about his length, height, and body dimensions?
any tiger that sires 36-40 cubs is no lucky tiger. considering India’s true tiger numbers are close to 2000-2900. T3 is a legendary specimen and will always be a legend. i was just talking about roles. like humans, tigers also have different personalities and different lives they live. re-introduced tigers, i don’t know how well they would have done in their own parks if they stayed. they are considerably different than the ones that we see come up and take their spots for the throne. T3 and Bajrang may have lived differently but in the end. they were just as impressive from the conservation standpoint. combined cub count between the two is 86-90 with Bajrang still in control of most females in Tadoba. this number could easily end up being much higher in the coming years. remember, just from two male tigers. what a dominant tiger can do is amazing. never underestimate their capability.
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