There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
04-24-2020, 11:33 PM( This post was last modified: 04-27-2020, 09:12 AM by Dark Jaguar )
Monster sized Cerrado male Jaguar named Tiago recaptured by IOP
I think he is the same misterious cerrado male that I always made it clear ''he isn't Xangô'' that may be him and he is indeed on the same frame as xangô like I always said if not larger.
too bad no weights were stated but I would give him 115kg EASILY.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Anah putting on his collar and also shows all the places that he have been through the map.
just for a comparison here is Richard male which is already confirmed to be 110kg
*This image is copyright of its original author
and now Tiago male he is clearly the larger one.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
In my opinion Tiago is the most Impressive Cerrado male jaguar I have ever seen if he is 120kg I wouldn't be surprised at all. too bad Leandro didn't reveal his weight.
These cerrado jaguars don't stop surprising me, everyday I am more amazed by them.
04-24-2020, 11:51 PM( This post was last modified: 04-24-2020, 11:52 PM by Dark Jaguar )
Eastern Amazonic jaguar recaptured and being Released.
Leandro Silveira -
''Another #TBT. In 2018 IBAMA from Pará captured this beautiful black jaguar male in a condominium in Belém-PA. The animal was transferred to the Carajás reserve, where IOP joined the IBAMA team to adjust a GPS necklace on the animal. Unfortunately this jaguar was not limited to the reserve and soon left to production areas, where in a few weeks the signal of its necklace was interrupted. We attributed the failure as a consequence of its illegal slaughter and destruction of the necklace. Releasing jaguars back into the wild was never and never will be an easy task. After all these animals are territorialists and still depend on a very healthy environment to maintain themselves. So better than considering reintroducing jags back into their habitat is to make sure they do not leave.''
(04-24-2020, 10:11 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: That is a very sensitive subject as we want more weight and measurements it could be tough for jaguars too wearing collars and with the anesthetic doses to keep them asleep but the projects takes good care as much as they can even the collars of nowadays as soon as the jag gets mass on the neck it will automatically fall off but with all jags sizes we got its a good number to take a few conclusions on modern jags. Above all the most important thing for me is to prevent poachers and the increase of the population the more wild jags in nature the better for nature.
Regarding the lack of studies in the species I think from all we have gathered us three can agree on a few things regarding pantanal male jaguars, first their average size, female is 76-77kg the polemic one is the males the other day I was reading an article and there's an interesting statement from the Expert Photographer Adriano Gambarini who follows projects suchs as Onçafari, Instituto Mamirauá ( in amazon ), he even followed an expedition for Caatinga jaguars in caatinga, he is the responsable for the official photographs of the captures and the projects works, everything about jaguars he is involved, he also has traveled the whole world photographing wild life, in the article he says the average size of a Pantanal male is ABOVE 100kg,
Page 16 of the link his statement in portuguese - ''Besides the high population densities, the biome (pantanal) presents the jaguars with the largest body size, being the average weight for males in this biome superior to 100kg, with some surpassing 130kg (Gambarini, 2016).''
I know he is not a biologist and some would argue the statement but coming from a person who follows the captures all the time and is witnessing everything up close hearing all those weights, sizes on jaguars we still don't know about ( remember Onçafari monitores more than 120 jaguars ) its pretty accurate to me and in my opinion with Adriano Gambini's statement or not pantanal male jags today average 105kg ( I already had that in mind before reading the article ) all the results show this and I'm glad Gambarini said that it just boosts that claim and some may argue ''there's no official scientifically statement of this and they still average 90kg'' The datas provided by projects is official right if its not scientific I don't know what that is, if this science entity who studied Almeidas datas and made them official is really interested in studying jaguars weight why they don't do a modern study, it should at least realise jaguars have been studied much more often lately in comparison to decades ago thanks to many conservation projects and stop sticking up to Almeidas weight and sizes and turn into a new modern page I'm sure this science entity will be surprised with the new results and forget that false 90kg average for once of all, if That 90kg average was accurate yes it was but 40 years ago, not anymore, even Peter Crawshaw himself saw how harsh it was for jaguars to live back then, I am not trying to downgrade Almeidas datas he provided many sizes, measurements, skull sizes that was game change but its been over 40 years already and many things regarding jaguars have changed since then ( thankfully for the better ) and its time for this science entity wake up and set this oudated jaguar table for once of all. Some people who desagree complain about statements through instagram,twitter pages but what would they expect ?? after all the accurate datas provided by projects I trust their words and if it is through instagram, twitter that is no problem its future, modernity, the internet era. if this science entity want to prove the real data why don't they do so but this time on modern jags I'm sure they will have a surprise. That 148kg modern pantanal male captured at north shown by @Pckts is other example of it so until this responsable for ''scientifically officialy proven'' or whatever don't show anything with modern jags in that regard, I will stick to what projects provide to us TODAY and not to 40 years old outdated datas and also I will stick to the average size being 105kg, is it scientifically correct? of course not but modern datas led us to their real weight potential Joker is an example of it and imagine with all those large males out there and the ones missed that are gone already ( Fantasma ( ghost ) and Xavier.... ) So until this science entity prove I am ( we are ) wrong IMO pantanal males average size is 105kg. even the professional photographer is noticing the ''modern differences'' . I don't know about you 2 but After seeing many weights way above 100kg and yet sticking to an average size of only 90kg is just wrong and outdated to me. And I know such a study for the entity might take alot of resources but lets remember jaguars are the least studied of all big cats.
About maximum sizes I think from these large male Pantanal jaguars we all wish to know how large they are even if we don't get it we already have a minimum clue on how large on frame 120+,130+ males can be so regardless of what other people who desagrees with us think we know they are up there in weight even if they will never get weighed and even Cerrado jaguars are far impressive too.
It would be cool to see a comparison on measurements of that average cerrado male 87.5kg I posted there's thorax girth, pad sizes, body/tail lengths with the likes of Shaka and Joker.
About the corridors Leandro Silveira works alot with it as well, I wish you guys spoke portugues to watch a few videos when Richard Rasmussen visited IOP in Cerrado last year with the porpose to learn more about jags, its so educatinal and amazing.
jaguars outside of Brasil I am very curious too regarding their capabilities and I know they're also large, that post by @OncaAtrox was impressive that domestic buffalo predation was just Wow and also that Santander jag, and I am sure Paraguay has alot to offer as well since its the least studied area of Pantanal.
Personally today the population of jags I would focus the most regarding conservation in my country would be the Caatinga jags, they are the most understudied, they are the smallest and rarest of all and a terrible fate like occured to the Pampas jaguars could happen at any time since theres so little Caatinga jaguars.
For a comparison The only caatinga jaguar weight I could find was that 37kg male that has even a comparison to a 130kg pantanal male about the same age. I wanna gather more weights of these caatinga jags but also know more how their lifestyles are.
I agree with everything you said here, I don't fully speak Portuguese but I do understand it so feel free to share your content here with us!
Jaguars in Colombia are incredibly understudied and I'm sure that by looking at the specimens I have shown here we can agree that those are reaching large sizes as well and going undocumented. Thankfully these jaguar populations in the Colombian Llanos are actually growing and ranchers aren't poaching them anywhere near as much as before. I know many people here want to believe that jaguars are in the same tier as leopards but we know that's not true, and it's due to the lack of data from these animals that we can't make a conclusive statement about their sizes.
I'm also extremely interested in knowing the sizes of the Argentinian Atlantic forests jaguars, those look like tanks, and Redyaguarete has said they believe some males surpass the 100 kg threshold easily.
04-25-2020, 12:09 AM( This post was last modified: 04-25-2020, 12:17 AM by Dark Jaguar )
(04-24-2020, 11:53 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:
(04-24-2020, 10:11 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: That is a very sensitive subject as we want more weight and measurements it could be tough for jaguars too wearing collars and with the anesthetic doses to keep them asleep but the projects takes good care as much as they can even the collars of nowadays as soon as the jag gets mass on the neck it will automatically fall off but with all jags sizes we got its a good number to take a few conclusions on modern jags. Above all the most important thing for me is to prevent poachers and the increase of the population the more wild jags in nature the better for nature.
Regarding the lack of studies in the species I think from all we have gathered us three can agree on a few things regarding pantanal male jaguars, first their average size, female is 76-77kg the polemic one is the males the other day I was reading an article and there's an interesting statement from the Expert Photographer Adriano Gambarini who follows projects suchs as Onçafari, Instituto Mamirauá ( in amazon ), he even followed an expedition for Caatinga jaguars in caatinga, he is the responsable for the official photographs of the captures and the projects works, everything about jaguars he is involved, he also has traveled the whole world photographing wild life, in the article he says the average size of a Pantanal male is ABOVE 100kg,
Page 16 of the link his statement in portuguese - ''Besides the high population densities, the biome (pantanal) presents the jaguars with the largest body size, being the average weight for males in this biome superior to 100kg, with some surpassing 130kg (Gambarini, 2016).''
I know he is not a biologist and some would argue the statement but coming from a person who follows the captures all the time and is witnessing everything up close hearing all those weights, sizes on jaguars we still don't know about ( remember Onçafari monitores more than 120 jaguars ) its pretty accurate to me and in my opinion with Adriano Gambini's statement or not pantanal male jags today average 105kg ( I already had that in mind before reading the article ) all the results show this and I'm glad Gambarini said that it just boosts that claim and some may argue ''there's no official scientifically statement of this and they still average 90kg'' The datas provided by projects is official right if its not scientific I don't know what that is, if this science entity who studied Almeidas datas and made them official is really interested in studying jaguars weight why they don't do a modern study, it should at least realise jaguars have been studied much more often lately in comparison to decades ago thanks to many conservation projects and stop sticking up to Almeidas weight and sizes and turn into a new modern page I'm sure this science entity will be surprised with the new results and forget that false 90kg average for once of all, if That 90kg average was accurate yes it was but 40 years ago, not anymore, even Peter Crawshaw himself saw how harsh it was for jaguars to live back then, I am not trying to downgrade Almeidas datas he provided many sizes, measurements, skull sizes that was game change but its been over 40 years already and many things regarding jaguars have changed since then ( thankfully for the better ) and its time for this science entity wake up and set this oudated jaguar table for once of all. Some people who desagree complain about statements through instagram,twitter pages but what would they expect ?? after all the accurate datas provided by projects I trust their words and if it is through instagram, twitter that is no problem its future, modernity, the internet era. if this science entity want to prove the real data why don't they do so but this time on modern jags I'm sure they will have a surprise. That 148kg modern pantanal male captured at north shown by @Pckts is other example of it so until this responsable for ''scientifically officialy proven'' or whatever don't show anything with modern jags in that regard, I will stick to what projects provide to us TODAY and not to 40 years old outdated datas and also I will stick to the average size being 105kg, is it scientifically correct? of course not but modern datas led us to their real weight potential Joker is an example of it and imagine with all those large males out there and the ones missed that are gone already ( Fantasma ( ghost ) and Xavier.... ) So until this science entity prove I am ( we are ) wrong IMO pantanal males average size is 105kg. even the professional photographer is noticing the ''modern differences'' . I don't know about you 2 but After seeing many weights way above 100kg and yet sticking to an average size of only 90kg is just wrong and outdated to me. And I know such a study for the entity might take alot of resources but lets remember jaguars are the least studied of all big cats.
About maximum sizes I think from these large male Pantanal jaguars we all wish to know how large they are even if we don't get it we already have a minimum clue on how large on frame 120+,130+ males can be so regardless of what other people who desagrees with us think we know they are up there in weight even if they will never get weighed and even Cerrado jaguars are far impressive too.
It would be cool to see a comparison on measurements of that average cerrado male 87.5kg I posted there's thorax girth, pad sizes, body/tail lengths with the likes of Shaka and Joker.
About the corridors Leandro Silveira works alot with it as well, I wish you guys spoke portugues to watch a few videos when Richard Rasmussen visited IOP in Cerrado last year with the porpose to learn more about jags, its so educatinal and amazing.
jaguars outside of Brasil I am very curious too regarding their capabilities and I know they're also large, that post by @OncaAtrox was impressive that domestic buffalo predation was just Wow and also that Santander jag, and I am sure Paraguay has alot to offer as well since its the least studied area of Pantanal.
Personally today the population of jags I would focus the most regarding conservation in my country would be the Caatinga jags, they are the most understudied, they are the smallest and rarest of all and a terrible fate like occured to the Pampas jaguars could happen at any time since theres so little Caatinga jaguars.
For a comparison The only caatinga jaguar weight I could find was that 37kg male that has even a comparison to a 130kg pantanal male about the same age. I wanna gather more weights of these caatinga jags but also know more how their lifestyles are.
I agree with everything you said here, I don't fully speak Portuguese but I do understand it so feel free to share your content here with us!
Jaguars in Colombia are incredibly understudied and I'm sure that by looking at the specimens I have shown here we can agree that those are reaching large sizes as well and going undocumented. Thankfully these jaguar populations in the Colombian Llanos are actually growing and ranchers aren't poaching them anywhere near as much as before. I know many people here want to believe that jaguars are in the same tier as leopards but we know that's not true, and it's due to the lack of data from these animals that we can't make a conclusive statement about their sizes.
I'm also extremely interested in knowing the sizes of the Argentinian Atlantic forests jaguars, those look like tanks, and Redyaguarete has said they believe some males surpass the 100 kg threshold easily.
Here it is and keep in mind that these are all cerrado jaguars and pay the attention to the discussions specially when they head to the place of the skulls and skins its so informative, the pecaris part too as well as when they discuss the cerrado and jaguars from a mountain with the whole cerrado view. anyways everything is good hahaha.
This is the last one when Richard receives the call from IOP, Leandro tells him theres a large wild cerrado male lurking around the house for a while and he just put it in the enclosure with the help of Xavante male who helped luring the wild male into the enclosure, then Richard rushes to go there and see it up close, the large male gets weighed and named Richard.
This Richard cerrado male from the video bellow is the same male I am comparing to the massive Tiago cerrado male in the post above.
Just look how powerful and explosive he is right in the first secs of the video against the cage. 110kg of pure wild muscle mass.
Amit Eshel:" This male Jaguar we met in the Pantanal was a little cross eyed but it didn’t seem to bother him much as he looked very well fed and healthy He was still hanging out with his brother which is very unusual to see at that age when Jaguars becomes solitary. "
The following 1 user Likes Spalea's post:1 user Likes Spalea's post • Lycaon
(04-24-2020, 11:37 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: What do you think about Tiago cerrado male @Pckts and @OncaAtrox?
I just saw this but based on that picture you showed us I would have to agree with you that he at least weighs 115 o 120. His paws and head are huge so I wouldn't be surprised if he is bigger than that, such as shame he wasn't weighed but that is the most impressive Cerrado jag I have seen.
04-25-2020, 05:00 AM( This post was last modified: 04-25-2020, 05:00 AM by Dark Jaguar )
(04-25-2020, 02:05 AM)Pckts Wrote: @Dark Jaguar
Got word on Mick Jaguar size.
Paulo said he was one of the big boys during his prime. Much larger than hero.
I can't believe Mick was that large in the past, Wow that is impressive thanks for finding out anyways just image how large Geoff male was in his prime then, In this case prime Mick is one more jag that could be on the list of the ''science entity'' hehe.
Mick at old age I just find him with a massive head and a more compact body IMO much like Xavier male.
By the way what do you think about Tiago Cerrado male ?
(04-25-2020, 02:05 AM)Pckts Wrote: @Dark Jaguar
Got word on Mick Jaguar size.
Paulo said he was one of the big boys during his prime. Much larger than hero.
I can't believe Mick was that large in the past, Wow that is impressive thanks for finding out anyways just image how large Geoff male was in his prime then, In this case prime Mick is one more jag that could be on the list of the ''science entity'' hehe.
Mick at old age I just find him with a massive head and a more compact body IMO much like Xavier male.
By the way what do you think about Tiago Cerrado male ?
He looks like a big Jag but I'd want to see a few more shots of him. He's got a big skull on him for sure though.
04-25-2020, 05:14 AM( This post was last modified: 04-25-2020, 05:15 AM by Dark Jaguar )
(04-25-2020, 02:12 AM)OncaAtrox Wrote:
(04-24-2020, 11:37 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: What do you think about Tiago cerrado male @Pckts and @OncaAtrox?
I just saw this but based on that picture you showed us I would have to agree with you that he at least weighs 115 o 120. His paws and head are huge so I wouldn't be surprised if he is bigger than that, such as shame he wasn't weighed but that is the most impressive Cerrado jag I have seen.
Yeah Tiago male looks Pantanal sized male, his paw is massive, his head, his shoulders is so robust he is all big.
Actually Tiago was weighed I am sure of it, just like they weighed Richard male in the video I sent you, they just don't reveal their weight that often remember what I told you a few days ago about some projects not revealing the jags details?
IOP page just got 1 million followers and its fans don't ask about weight and measurements that often its very rare that must be the reason Leandro don't feel like stating the weights of the wild cerrado jags captured by IOP team.
04-25-2020, 05:23 AM( This post was last modified: 04-25-2020, 05:26 AM by Dark Jaguar )
(04-25-2020, 05:08 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(04-25-2020, 05:00 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(04-25-2020, 02:05 AM)Pckts Wrote: @Dark Jaguar
Got word on Mick Jaguar size.
Paulo said he was one of the big boys during his prime. Much larger than hero.
I can't believe Mick was that large in the past, Wow that is impressive thanks for finding out anyways just image how large Geoff male was in his prime then, In this case prime Mick is one more jag that could be on the list of the ''science entity'' hehe.
Mick at old age I just find him with a massive head and a more compact body IMO much like Xavier male.
By the way what do you think about Tiago Cerrado male ?
He looks like a big Jag but I'd want to see a few more shots of him. He's got a big skull on him for sure though.
I'll keep an eye on IOP page as soon as I get any info/pic regarding Tiago male ( or any other wild cerrado jag ) it will be here. or hopefully in the modern weight and measurements thread
Impressive Wild Jaguars - Pictures and Videos
