There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
--- Peter Broekhuijsen ---

  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Gorilla strength - myths and reality

Finland Shadow Online
Moderator
*****
Moderators
#1

Well, I decided to make one topic too mostly from curiosity about this matter. Gorillas are often mentioned to be very strong animals. I think, that there is no doubt about it, that they are strong. But even though I like gorillas a lot myself, with time I have become more and more skeptical about certain things. Often is said, that gorilla is pound to pound in top ten what comes to strong animals if insects are counted out. But to what that claim is based really? To hypotheses, estimations etc.... but what is really proven and does it has that reputation mostly because it is so close to humans and people would like to see it as almost a "superanimal".

Personally I don´t believe, that gorilla earns to be lifted to some pedestal to be pound to pound stronger than for instance a bear if there is nothing else, than some hypotheses, estimations and hopes. On the other hand if that can be proven and there are some concrete examples of proven and truly impressive cases where gorilla has shown exceptional strength, it would be nice to know. And here when I say exceptional, I mean compared to other strong animals, not compared to some "average Joe" sitting on couch.

Hopefully people who participate to this discussion (if any :) tolerate criticism and to be questioned too. For instance if someone writes, that gorillas are 20 times stronger than humans he/she can be sure to be questioned and asked to what such claim is based :)

And just in case, I do absolutely love gorillas and hope to them all good, but this issue just is interesting and seems to be a difficult one to find real information. I personally am not so interested about muscle fibres etc. but about real cases and information which aren´t just hypotheses or guesses.
6 users Like Shadow's post
Reply

India brotherbear Offline
Grizzly Enthusiast
*****
#2

From my point of view, I see mostly two groups of people when it comes to the gorilla. 
First group are big fans of the old-school gorilla B-movies. From the silent film era on into the 1970s, the gorilla was a popular B-movie monster who could bend steel bars or a lion's neck. True gorilla fans view the gorilla as a fierce beast with almost unnatural strength. 
Second group see the completely opposite animal. A mild-mannered vegetarian with absolutely no fighting ability. They wonder how the gorilla has managed not to be hunted into extinction by leopards. 
I see a big strong but normally peaceful ape somewhere in the middle. Though a real scientific strength test has ( ironically ) never been applied to a gorilla, I believe them to be very strong - certainly stronger than any man. Apparently leopards view them with some amount of respect or else they truly would be rare if not extinct. I doubt that a bull gorilla is as strong as a bear of similar size, but then likely not too far behind either. 
If there were tigers in the jungles of the Congo, gorillas would have a big problem. They were perhaps unable to expand out of their forest habitats due to lions. 
Not monsters; but neither are they wimps - IMO.
 Grizzly  - Boss of the Woods.
        
  
             
6 users Like brotherbear's post
Reply

Finland Shadow Online
Moderator
*****
Moderators
#3
( This post was last modified: 12-12-2018, 05:47 AM by Shadow )

(12-12-2018, 03:23 AM)brotherbear Wrote: From my point of view, I see mostly two groups of people when it comes to the gorilla. 
First group are big fans of the old-school gorilla B-movies. From the silent film era on into the 1970s, the gorilla was a popular B-movie monster who could bend steel bars or a lion's neck. True gorilla fans view the gorilla as a fierce beast with almost unnatural strength. 
Second group see the completely opposite animal. A mild-mannered vegetarian with absolutely no fighting ability. They wonder how the gorilla has managed not to be hunted into extinction by leopards. 
I see a big strong but normally peaceful ape somewhere in the middle. Though a real scientific strength test has ( ironically ) never been applied to a gorilla, I believe them to be very strong - certainly stronger than any man. Apparently leopards view them with some amount of respect or else they truly would be rare if not extinct. I doubt that a bull gorilla is as strong as a bear of similar size, but then likely not too far behind either. 
If there were tigers in the jungles of the Congo, gorillas would have a big problem. They were perhaps unable to expand out of their forest habitats due to lions. 
Not monsters; but neither are they wimps - IMO.

There are many points of views naturally. I am not interested so much about it, what comes to predation of gorillas here because that is a different thing. I made this topic to get help in finding information about, should I say brute strength. What claims can be proved and what are just random estimations from maybe only one biologist or zoologist...  and then spread wildly and published even in newspapers as "proven facts". But when looking closer impossible to find anything really confirming what is said.

I personally think, that gorilla is quite comparable with a same sized bear because both are robust animals. Maybe bear needs to be a little bit heavier to be comparable because of that fat layer. But basically both are robust powerhouses and I can´t say which one is stronger pound to pound with current information. About bears there is some information. Observations from wildlife and footage etc. About gorillas it is much more difficult to find good information. It would be nice to see some if someone has something to share.
4 users Like Shadow's post
Reply

Malaysia johnny rex Offline
Wildanimal Enthusiast
***
#4

(12-12-2018, 01:30 AM)Shadow Wrote: Well, I decided to make one topic too mostly from curiosity about this matter. Gorillas are often mentioned to be very strong animals. I think, that there is no doubt about it, that they are strong. But even though I like gorillas a lot myself, with time I have become more and more skeptical about certain things. Often is said, that gorilla is pound to pound in top ten what comes to strong animals if insects are counted out. But to what that claim is based really? To hypotheses, estimations etc.... but what is really proven and does it has that reputation mostly because it is so close to humans and people would like to see it as almost a "superanimal".

Personally I don´t believe, that gorilla earns to be lifted to some pedestal to be pound to pound stronger than for instance a bear if there is nothing else, than some hypotheses, estimations and hopes. On the other hand if that can be proven and there are some concrete examples of proven and truly impressive cases where gorilla has shown exceptional strength, it would be nice to know. And here when I say exceptional, I mean compared to other strong animals, not compared to some "average Joe" sitting on couch.

Hopefully people who participate to this discussion (if any :) tolerate criticism and to be questioned too. For instance if someone writes, that gorillas are 20 times stronger than humans he/she can be sure to be questioned and asked to what such claim is based :)

And just in case, I do absolutely love gorillas and hope to them all good, but this issue just is interesting and seems to be a difficult one to find real information. I personally am not so interested about muscle fibres etc. but about real cases and information which aren´t just hypotheses or guesses.

There's no doubt that gorillas are strong, but I'm not sure whether their strength is really that comparable if compared to predatory animals such as bears, big cats, crocs, etc.
2 users Like johnny rex's post
Reply

Finland Shadow Online
Moderator
*****
Moderators
#5
( This post was last modified: 12-13-2018, 01:05 AM by Shadow )

(12-12-2018, 10:41 AM)johnny rex Wrote:
(12-12-2018, 01:30 AM)Shadow Wrote: Well, I decided to make one topic too mostly from curiosity about this matter. Gorillas are often mentioned to be very strong animals. I think, that there is no doubt about it, that they are strong. But even though I like gorillas a lot myself, with time I have become more and more skeptical about certain things. Often is said, that gorilla is pound to pound in top ten what comes to strong animals if insects are counted out. But to what that claim is based really? To hypotheses, estimations etc.... but what is really proven and does it has that reputation mostly because it is so close to humans and people would like to see it as almost a "superanimal".

Personally I don´t believe, that gorilla earns to be lifted to some pedestal to be pound to pound stronger than for instance a bear if there is nothing else, than some hypotheses, estimations and hopes. On the other hand if that can be proven and there are some concrete examples of proven and truly impressive cases where gorilla has shown exceptional strength, it would be nice to know. And here when I say exceptional, I mean compared to other strong animals, not compared to some "average Joe" sitting on couch.

Hopefully people who participate to this discussion (if any :) tolerate criticism and to be questioned too. For instance if someone writes, that gorillas are 20 times stronger than humans he/she can be sure to be questioned and asked to what such claim is based :)

And just in case, I do absolutely love gorillas and hope to them all good, but this issue just is interesting and seems to be a difficult one to find real information. I personally am not so interested about muscle fibres etc. but about real cases and information which aren´t just hypotheses or guesses.

There's no doubt that gorillas are strong, but I'm not sure whether their strength is really that comparable if compared to predatory animals such as bears, big cats, crocs, etc.
Comparisons are of course always things, which can cause debates. Still many times people have no trouble to say how gorillas are so very strong, like they would be only strong animals on the planet and how they can do this and that. Lift enormous weights and who knows what. Still when looking closer it is very difficult or even impossible to find something to back up those claims.

I take one example. There is one hypothesis/claim, that gorilla could lift 2000 kg. I have seen that speculation and there is no actual information, what is meant by lifting. Does it mean, that gorilla could lift it a little bit from ground and maybe move it aside with extreme effort and be exhausted after such performance. Or has that person behind this hypothesis meant, that gorilla could do that effortlessly. Now many people who don´t use any source criticism or think, seem to have imaginations about gorillas able to pick up cars and lift overhead etc. just like that (yes, I know balance problems, but what comes to assumed strength). But same time has anyone ever seen gorilla lifting anything heavy, for instance like 400-500 kg? Or something what could be seen as something impressive compared for instance to a bear. Bear is in that way a good animal to compare, that bears are known to move heavy objects in a way which often looks like to be effortless or at least surprisingly easy.

And when in many myths, true or false, gorillas are told to be pound to pound one of the strongest animals, then naturally also that myth is interesting. To what such claim is based or is it based on anything really?

Because gorillas are indeed interesting and impressive animals and their strength is mentioned often, it has been quite interesting to notice, that when trying to learn more about that famous strength, it is actually very difficult to find practically anything to really prove it. Or give even a hint, that they are so strong as often said. I have this feeling, that there is a lot of hype there and truth is more or less, that gorillas are pretty much in same level overall as any other animal in same weight. 

I hope, that someone would have reliable information and more than just some hypothesis or guesses. I do agree, as I have said, that gorillas are strong, that is not my point to try to say, that they wouldn´t be. I am only interested, that how strong really, because many claims seem to be more or less imaginative based on King Kong movies :) That can sound a little bit provocative, but this seems to be a subject, where hopes are mixed to reality many times :) Question is how much?
2 users Like Shadow's post
Reply

Switzerland Spalea Offline
Wildanimal Lover
*****
#6

Gorillas, compared with bears, are not very demonstrativ animals...






... Excepted when they are breaking the glass !






Nevertheless we are able to see they are very very very impressive ! In the french language we often qualify a bodyguard as being "un gorille" ! No one man is a gorilla... Anatomically speaking the gorillas are on an "other league". Just look at their arms !
2 users Like Spalea's post
Reply

Finland Shadow Online
Moderator
*****
Moderators
#7
( This post was last modified: 12-12-2018, 02:03 PM by Shadow )

(12-12-2018, 12:59 PM)Spalea Wrote: Gorillas, compared with bears, are not very demonstrativ animals...






... Excepted when they are breaking the glass !






Nevertheless we are able to see they are very very very impressive ! In the french language we often qualify a bodyguard as being "un gorille" ! No one man is a gorilla... Anatomically speaking the gorillas are on an "other league". Just look at their arms !
Yes I have seen these and I don´t find here anything particularly special. One stone which any strong man could move in pretty much same way. Of course that is with ease, but then again bears do just the same and effortlessly.

That breaking a glass could have been old glass with manufacturing defect or just "worn out" and lucky gorilla. Then again bears have broken some glasses by throwing stones in zoos. Anyway we have many gorillas in zoos for decades and there is no issue with these glasses like gorillas would be able to break through. If that would happen all the time it would be something for what I would be giving more credit, but this looks to be a combination of good luck and possible bad quality of glass. I edited this part of my answer, because I replied firstly a little bit sloppy.

I think, that these two videos are very familiar to all, who are interested about gorillas. Also that banana tree video is very familiar and probably most people here have seen it. I can understand why these videos can be seen showing, that gorillas are strong, but I personally am not so impressed because of reasons I said. I mean I don´t see here anything extraordinary compared to other animals what comes to strength yet. For instance a horse same weight giving a kick with hind legs would most probably also been breaking that glass.

But of course it is nice to hear if different kind of thoughts about what can be seen in those videos and reasoning.
2 users Like Shadow's post
Reply

Finland Shadow Online
Moderator
*****
Moderators
#8

These two photos just to give comparison if we look at arms of animals. Of course these specific bears are unfair in that way, that these kind of overkill gorillas in comparison. But of course smaller bears have quite same measurements relatively. So gorilla isn´t only impressive animal what comes to robust body, bears are too very very robust and muscular animals. There are others, but bear just seems to be most suitable to use in this comparison and helping me in trying to explain my point of view in this matter and why I am interested to find more and hopefully new information.

Attached Files Image(s)
       
1 user Likes Shadow's post
Reply

India brotherbear Offline
Grizzly Enthusiast
*****
#9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbo3jjs4AW0
 Grizzly  - Boss of the Woods.
        
  
             
1 user Likes brotherbear's post
Reply

India brotherbear Offline
Grizzly Enthusiast
*****
#10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfDxg0pJAX4
 Grizzly  - Boss of the Woods.
        
  
             
2 users Like brotherbear's post
Reply

India brotherbear Offline
Grizzly Enthusiast
*****
#11


*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author
 Grizzly  - Boss of the Woods.
        
  
             
2 users Like brotherbear's post
Reply

India brotherbear Offline
Grizzly Enthusiast
*****
#12

https://rense.com/general59/dder.htm 
 
From the May 28, 1902 edition of the Fort Wayne News: "In the Marseilles zoo there recently took place a duel to the death between a man and an adult gorilla, the only one in Europe. The gorilla was killed after a fight lasting twenty minutes, in which the keeper was so terribly mangled that he died five hours later. "The famous gorilla was named Francois. He was one of the largest species and always had been perfectly tractable, showing especial affection for his keeper, a man named Journoux, until the latter married a few weeks ago. "The bride visited the zoo often, and the gorilla was very sensitive about the attentions she showed her husband. When the gorilla perceived that she undoubtedly preferred his keeper, Francois became more and more jealous, and finally Jouroux found it impossible to approach the gorilla, especially if Mme. Journoux was in sight. "Francois became so surly and quiet that the keeper thought he was sick and entered the cage to comfort him. The gorilla immediately sprang upon his keeper. Journoux held a short tamer's fork, which alone accounts for the fight lasting so long.... "By the time help arrived the gorilla had been killed. The keeper was found with one eye torn out and rapidly losing blood from many other wounds. One hand had been completely chewed off, and the lower lip and part of the chin had also been bitten off."
 
It is worth noting that in the homophobic era of the early 20th century, this journalist did not feel free to speculate that the real object of the gorilla's affection was not the handler's wife, but the handler himself. Of course, the reporter may have been misguided in concluding that "jealousy" was the motive behind the gorilla's rampage, but remember that gorillas share about 98 percent of the genetic material of humans. And to quote Dr. Zaius, the eminent simian scholar in Planet of the Apes, "I have always known about man. From the evidence, I believe his wisdom must walk hand and hand with his idiocy. His emotions must rule his brain. He must be a warlike creature who gives battle to everything around him, even himself."
 Grizzly  - Boss of the Woods.
        
  
             
2 users Like brotherbear's post
Reply

Finland Shadow Online
Moderator
*****
Moderators
#13

(12-12-2018, 03:43 PM)brotherbear Wrote: https://rense.com/general59/dder.htm 
 
From the May 28, 1902 edition of the Fort Wayne News: "In the Marseilles zoo there recently took place a duel to the death between a man and an adult gorilla, the only one in Europe. The gorilla was killed after a fight lasting twenty minutes, in which the keeper was so terribly mangled that he died five hours later. "The famous gorilla was named Francois. He was one of the largest species and always had been perfectly tractable, showing especial affection for his keeper, a man named Journoux, until the latter married a few weeks ago. "The bride visited the zoo often, and the gorilla was very sensitive about the attentions she showed her husband. When the gorilla perceived that she undoubtedly preferred his keeper, Francois became more and more jealous, and finally Jouroux found it impossible to approach the gorilla, especially if Mme. Journoux was in sight. "Francois became so surly and quiet that the keeper thought he was sick and entered the cage to comfort him. The gorilla immediately sprang upon his keeper. Journoux held a short tamer's fork, which alone accounts for the fight lasting so long.... "By the time help arrived the gorilla had been killed. The keeper was found with one eye torn out and rapidly losing blood from many other wounds. One hand had been completely chewed off, and the lower lip and part of the chin had also been bitten off."
 
It is worth noting that in the homophobic era of the early 20th century, this journalist did not feel free to speculate that the real object of the gorilla's affection was not the handler's wife, but the handler himself. Of course, the reporter may have been misguided in concluding that "jealousy" was the motive behind the gorilla's rampage, but remember that gorillas share about 98 percent of the genetic material of humans. And to quote Dr. Zaius, the eminent simian scholar in Planet of the Apes, "I have always known about man. From the evidence, I believe his wisdom must walk hand and hand with his idiocy. His emotions must rule his brain. He must be a warlike creature who gives battle to everything around him, even himself."
Some lessons are learnt with heavy price. Sad when people with good intentions pay those prices. Like that one woman working in zoo in Sweden with wolves and got killed by those then one day when entering to enclosure. I don´t remember now was there some known reason or not.

I think, that it is quite clear, that gorilla overpowers humans easily and questionable part is, that where it stand among other strong animals. How big and heavy objects it can lift or move when it wants to do so. Or break truly with pure strength. Bamboo is often mentioned, but then again it is mentioned that gorillas bite that bamboo first to weaken it and then easier to break it by hands. In some videos gorillas can be seen to break bamboo, but in all what I have seen using body weight to make it happen. Not something a weakling could do, but then again not proving something unique strength among animals. There are claims, that gorilla could crash a coconut, but videos which I have found have showed, that gorillas are hitting coconut against rock until it finally breaks. So not just crushing it just like that like some claims suggest.

I think, that from youtube it is difficult to find something new especially if that video is popular and can be found with keywords "gorilla" "strong" "strength" "lifting" "break" etc. But is there something in some other site maybe or some document? Or anything? :)
1 user Likes Shadow's post
Reply

Malaysia johnny rex Offline
Wildanimal Enthusiast
***
#14
( This post was last modified: 12-12-2018, 07:39 PM by johnny rex )

(12-12-2018, 12:59 PM)Spalea Wrote: Gorillas, compared with bears, are not very demonstrativ animals...






... Excepted when they are breaking the glass !






Nevertheless we are able to see they are very very very impressive ! In the french language we often qualify a bodyguard as being "un gorille" ! No one man is a gorilla... Anatomically speaking the gorillas are on an "other league". Just look at their arms !

I've seen these videos. Gorillas moving objects are common sight though. Most glasses in zoos are made of three layers, it's the first layer of glass that was broken when the gorilla crashed into it. Also, the glass like Shadow said could have been old glass with manufacturing defect or just "worn out" and lucky gorilla. Another example would be chimps. Chimpanzees are strong too but I doubt even a dominant male chimp can protect itself from a average sized leopard or cougar.
2 users Like johnny rex's post
Reply

Finland Shadow Online
Moderator
*****
Moderators
#15
( This post was last modified: 12-12-2018, 09:17 PM by Shadow )

(12-12-2018, 07:35 PM)johnny rex Wrote:
(12-12-2018, 12:59 PM)Spalea Wrote: Gorillas, compared with bears, are not very demonstrativ animals...






... Excepted when they are breaking the glass !






Nevertheless we are able to see they are very very very impressive ! In the french language we often qualify a bodyguard as being "un gorille" ! No one man is a gorilla... Anatomically speaking the gorillas are on an "other league". Just look at their arms !

I've seen these videos. Gorillas moving objects are common sight though. Most glasses in zoos are made of three layers, it's the first layer of glass that was broken when the gorilla crashed into it. Also, the glass like Shadow said could have been old glass with manufacturing defect or just "worn out" and lucky gorilla. Another example would be chimps. Chimpanzees are strong too but I doubt even a dominant male chimp can protect itself from a average sized leopard or cougar.

I would say that much, that what animals can kill each others is another issue and not any indicator what comes to strength I think. I mean, leopards have killed also silverback gorillas in some occasions, but I don´t still think a second, that a 50-90 kg leopard would be stronger than a gorilla. At least unless someone is able to prove it in some way. Even though leopards do impressive job when climbing to a tree with carcass. Who knows what would a comparison pound to pound say, but still I believe, that what comes to absolute brute strength, gorilla is stronger. But still leopard can kill it as usually seem to happen when they fight. Same thing when a lion kills a buffalo up to 4-5 times it´s own weight (in "best" case) or a hippo even 10 times it´s own weight, for sure buffalo and hippo are stronger animals, but still not safe from attacks and to be eaten.

So I would hope, that in this thread focus would be in that, that what kind of actions showing remarkable strength gorillas have done and where can be found information about those occasions? Or is situation, that nobody really knows something really concrete? And if there is something, in what bases that should be considered as extraordinary or should it?

Gorilla is strong, question here from me is, that how strong really? :)
2 users Like Shadow's post
Reply






Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)

About Us
Go Social     Subscribe  

Welcome to WILDFACT forum, a website that focuses on sharing the joy that wildlife has on offer. We welcome all wildlife lovers to join us in sharing that joy. As a member you can share your research, knowledge and experience on animals with the community.
wildfact.com is intended to serve as an online resource for wildlife lovers of all skill levels from beginners to professionals and from all fields that belong to wildlife anyhow. Our focus area is wild animals from all over world. Content generated here will help showcase the work of wildlife experts and lovers to the world. We believe by the help of your informative article and content we will succeed to educate the world, how these beautiful animals are important to survival of all man kind.
Many thanks for visiting wildfact.com. We hope you will keep visiting wildfact regularly and will refer other members who have passion for wildlife.

Forum software by © MyBB