Crocodile and Big cats Interaction

[lionjaguar]

(05-01-2021, 02:26 AM)Balam Wrote:

(05-01-2021, 01:53 AM)lionjaguar Wrote:

(05-01-2021, 01:24 AM)Balam Wrote:

(05-01-2021, 01:08 AM)lionjaguar Wrote:

(05-01-2021, 01:05 AM)Pckts Wrote:

(05-01-2021, 12:34 AM)lionjaguar Wrote:

(04-30-2021, 10:18 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(04-30-2021, 05:37 AM)lionjaguar Wrote:

(10-18-2020, 05:49 PM)Pckts Wrote: I agree, I've not heard of any lions who've been specialized Croc killers. There is a reason Lions hate water and that is because of what lurks not because they get their mane wet. 

That's 100% not true. Most cat species don't like water. Amazonian jaguars love water even though they coexist with black caimans. Okavango lions often swim and enjoy water even though Nile crocodiles are common in the Okavango Delta.
There is no such as either animals will be superior and cats will afraid of water due to bigger crocodiles like Nile crocodiles. Lions are not really built for hunting and killing unlike other cats. They have the worst hunting skills compared to other cats. They seemed less agile too. If lions were equal as jaguars, then there will be more interesting interaction between Nile crocodiles and lions.

Jaguars rarely cross path's with Black Caimans.

And I'm curious, when exactly do you think Lions are wading into Croc infested waters in the Delta and when they do, do you think they have another choice?
I'm not sure where you get the idea that they "enjoy" the water? They certainly don't and would prefer the safer dry land but they've adapted in the Delta since they have no choice. I also disagree about your claims in regards to a  Lions hunting prowess, I believe that is untrue as well. 
Lastly, Jaguars would not behave the way they do in Pantanal if the waters were filled with Nile Crocs and Hippos they are just offered the luxury of not having to deal with them.

Of course they are avoiding water because of crocodiles. But many captive lions also don't spend their time in water. Have you seen captive lions love water? Where is your evidence claiming that cat species hate water because of crocodiles? My neighbor's cats hate water. They have never seen any crocodiles, alligators, and caimans. Are you going to tell me that they evolved to hate water just because of crocodiles or alligators? Have you seen other urban bobcats? Most cat species don't like water. 

My dad was in the US military and I lived in Africa for 2 years. I think lions had one of the worst hunting skills when they hunt alone. If you think the lion has the same hunting skills as many other cats, then you should watch more videos and lions. There's also one video in youtube that comparing skills between one jaguar and 2 male lions. A jaguar was way superior than male lions. When I find that video again, I'll post it. Their agility and hunting skills do not develop like other cats. Africa is the only continent where many abundant numbers of huge herbivores had survived unlike other continents. I believe lions have evolved further to make them suitable for hunting as a group and a big herbivores in Africa. 

You probably need to read more careful. Why are you bring up hippo? When did I wrote hippo? I did not said jaguars will be superior or enjoy water if Nile crocodiles are in Pantanal. I said there will be more interesting interactions between crocodiles and lions if lions were the same as jaguars. I am referring jagaurs are preferring reptiles and their reptile hunting skills if you still don't understand. Lions are bigger and stronger than jaguars. They are also social cats and hunt together.

In regards to Lions and water, you're all over the board, it's tough to read your point.

The hunting claim is baseless though, I could post video after video of Lions successfully hunting alone and doing so against large prey. But if you already have this preconceived notion that they are "bad hunters" then it will do no good. In regards to a hunting test between a Jaguar and 2 male lions, I'm sure it's a captive setting and there are many other factors that come into play. Jaguars are much more suited to hunt in water or in short bursts on land while Lions are more suited to hunt in a longer chase on land. You need to understand their morphological differences and how they play a role in their hunting tactics.

I added some sentences. You probably missed it.
Imagine that lions have both merits on their sociality and jaguar's caiman hunting skills. I read many youtube comments that jaguars can't stand chance against Nile crocodiles even if Nile crocodiles were small as caimans. That's 100% false. Nile crocodiles or even Saltwater crocodiles will be the perfect food source to jaguars just like caimans in Pantanal.

A full grown saltie or Nile crocodile is too big for any jaguar to tackle and the much larger lion would have better chances with them. Still, the largest crocodiles are above then size range of what any big cat can take.

In the Orinoco Llanos jaguars coexist with crocodiles that are just as big as Nile crocodiles, this would be the best area to study crocodile-jaguar interactions, especially considering Llanos Jaguars are among the greatest. Due to overhunting the population of Orinoco crocodiles became very small so recording interactions between is close to impossible.

I am not 100% sure since crocodiles on the land are the same as terrestrial animals in the water.

Also, lions are social animals. People are overpraising the Nile crocodiles and saltwater crocodiles just like honey badgers and lions. Lions often hunt big animals like cape buffalo. They can hunt hippos, elephants, giraffes, and rhinos sometimes and I know it's really rare. 20ft crocodiles won't be different if lions possess jaguar's reptile killing skills. Lions are also hunting as a group. And I'm not talking about when they're in the water.

I don't think the honey badger analogy is appropriate, but I'm a little bit confused as to what your point is here. The largest crocodiles not only dwarf big cats in body mass, they're also equipped with deadlier weaponry and better protection through osteoderms.

While it's true that jaguars are the most skilled cat when it comes to killing crocodilians, there is only so much a jaguar can do, and big crocodiles would be way too large to handle let alone kill, even in dry land. We don't have any records of seriously large crocodiles (5 meters and upwards) falling prey to any big cat, doesn't matter if it's a jaguar or lion. Crocodiles in this size class are too big and dangerous.

There is some data on jaguars predating juvenile Orinoco crocodiles but that's about it. Lion prides can definitely kill large crocodiles in dry land, but just like any heavy and dangerous prey (I think your comparisons to hippos and rhinos were appropriate) it would take a very long time and some could get badly injured in the process. In deep water, there is no contest.

Any big cats can pierce through the osteoderms when they bite crocodiles. I worked with crocodiles and alligators before. Crocodiles are also slower on the land.

I don't think you can put 20 ft crocodiles with the same comparisons as with rhinos and hippos. I remember angry mom rhino (cub was dead and mother was furious) almost flipped a car when I was in Africa. The story about Gustave killed hippo is FULL OF CRAP. How do they even know that it was a bull hippo? Were they even close when Gustav attacked hippo? People were afraid of Gustave and they probably made up this story when Gustave was scavenging dead hippo. I don't believe Gustave killed hippo, but it could have been old or sick hippo. People overpraise Nile crocodiles and saltwater crocodiles lot sometimes. I have not seen saltwater crocodiles hunting. But it's amazing when you see Nile crocodiles are hunting other animals, but they will never be invincible. I remember one crocodile fan was saying that Nile crocodiles and saltwater crocodiles have stronger bite power than megalodon, which is 100% bullshit. I hope this person and wildfact users don't believe saltwater crocodiles and Nile crocodiles can kill megalodon. I am 100% think that 15-20m and 50 ton megalodon could kill any crocodile, alligator, and caiman in a single bite.
If saltwater crocodiles and Nile crocodiles were similar size to smaller crocodiles like Philippine crocodiles, Cuban crocodiles, and smaller caimans, then they would never be invincible. Even cougars could also hunt those smaller saltwater crocodiles or Nile crocodiles.
I am not sure when lion prides are hunting a big crocodiles if they have jaguar skills. I am sure big crocodiles are better, but any crocodiles can become really risky then. You saw a video of 3 lions are fighting against 4-5m long Nile crocodile in Samburu, Kenya.

You said about any records on large crocodiles falling prey. I believe this is due to there is no benefits for both 5-6 m long crocodiles and big cats would gain anything to fight each other. Neither animals will be victorious in nature. They just leave it alone unless situations is favor for them like crocodiles will always attack animals when big animals are swimming in the water. Reply