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Comparing Cats: A Discussion of Similarities and Differences between Felids

United States Pckts Offline
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#76

These are from Sunny a while back

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


I'd guess the Tiger was closer to the camera on both shots or the zoomed in further, but who knows for sure.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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United States Pckts Offline
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#77

@peter  I'm not sure if you've seen this study or not but it's right in your wheelhouse. 
Take a look...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3981823/
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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Netherlands peter Offline
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#78

(12-06-2018, 10:12 PM)Pckts Wrote: @peter  I'm not sure if you've seen this study or not but it's right in your wheelhouse. 
Take a look...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3981823/

Read that one some years ago. Scientific confirmation of what I saw when I measured skulls.

Any specific question?
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United States Pckts Offline
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(12-06-2018, 11:31 PM)peter Wrote:
(12-06-2018, 10:12 PM)Pckts Wrote: @peter  I'm not sure if you've seen this study or not but it's right in your wheelhouse. 
Take a look...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3981823/

Read that one some years ago. Scientific confirmation of what I saw when I measured skulls.

Any specific question?

None, I just know your interest in Captive v Wild Skull differences.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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Netherlands peter Offline
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#80
( This post was last modified: 12-07-2018, 07:02 AM by peter )

(12-06-2018, 11:44 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(12-06-2018, 11:31 PM)peter Wrote:
(12-06-2018, 10:12 PM)Pckts Wrote: @peter  I'm not sure if you've seen this study or not but it's right in your wheelhouse. 
Take a look...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3981823/

Read that one some years ago. Scientific confirmation of what I saw when I measured skulls.

Any specific question?

None, I just know your interest in Captive v Wild Skull differences.

Appreciated.

Skulls of captive big cats often are different from skulls of their wild relatives. Skulls of wild big cats nearly always are smooth, elevated, dense and muscular. Skulls of captive big cats are relatively wider, less dense and not as elevated and muscular. Not seldom, they're asymmetrical as well. In the teeth department, the differences are even more outspoken.

For some reason, skulls of captive lions quite often show superfluous growths. Growths at vital places often have an effect. As large skulls are more affected than others, it's likely that males in particular suffer. 

Not a few think bone abnormalities (in the skull) could be a result of a lack of Vitamin A, but it also seems to be species-related. Tigers, jaguars and leopards are hardly, if at all, affected. Apart from asymmetry, a lack of density and more width, I didn't see abnormalities. Not to the extent seen in captive lions, that is.

More research is needed, as quite many captive male lions perish well before their time.
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United States Pckts Offline
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#81
( This post was last modified: 01-08-2019, 09:06 AM by Rishi )

I asked Nick Kleer how the Tigers he's seen compare to the Lions he's seen

His response:
"
bengal tigers are a fare size bigger than lions"


He's a guide at the Londolozi game reserve


You can see our convo on his Insta if you're inclined. Nick Kleer (@nickkleer)
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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Norway Pantherinae Offline
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(01-08-2019, 12:45 AM)Pckts Wrote: I asked Nick Kleer how the Tigers he's seen compare to the Lions he's seen

His response:
"
bengal tigers are a fare size bigger than lions"


He's a guide at the Londolozi game reserve


You can see our convo on his Insta if you're inclined. Nick Kleer (@nickkleer)

I think that is just a basic response I often see because many people think the tiger is much bigger before they have even seen them. I have seen lions in Krüger and tigers and there aren’t much to pick from, certanly not "a fare size bigger" I don’t think many people even guides are as interested in size as all of us are here on this forum. 

You also have seen both animals too, and a big dominant male in the reserve in which many belives to hold the biggest tigers in Central India. And if I’m not mistaken you also said they where pretty close in size. And I belive you are as I am very much more paying attention to the size of animals than most guides. So I think a large male tiger is bigger than small male lions and vice versa. 
And I consider you’re words as well as mine higher tbh and not to sound arrogant, but size is the first thing I think about when I see a big cat. I doubt that is the case with guides. 
Hopefully I can see a TOM tiger in Kanha then it will be even more interesting to compare. 

And I know you and I are fair when it comes to both animals. 
:)
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United States Pckts Offline
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(01-08-2019, 01:29 PM)Pantherinae Wrote:
(01-08-2019, 12:45 AM)Pckts Wrote: I asked Nick Kleer how the Tigers he's seen compare to the Lions he's seen

His response:
"
bengal tigers are a fare size bigger than lions"


He's a guide at the Londolozi game reserve


You can see our convo on his Insta if you're inclined. Nick Kleer (@nickkleer)

I think that is just a basic response I often see because many people think the tiger is much bigger before they have even seen them. I have seen lions in Krüger and tigers and there aren’t much to pick from, certanly not "a fare size bigger" I don’t think many people even guides are as interested in size as all of us are here on this forum. 

You also have seen both animals too, and a big dominant male in the reserve in which many belives to hold the biggest tigers in Central India. And if I’m not mistaken you also said they where pretty close in size. And I belive you are as I am very much more paying attention to the size of animals than most guides. So I think a large male tiger is bigger than small male lions and vice versa. 
And I consider you’re words as well as mine higher tbh and not to sound arrogant, but size is the first thing I think about when I see a big cat. I doubt that is the case with guides. 
Hopefully I can see a TOM tiger in Kanha then it will be even more interesting to compare. 

And I know you and I are fair when it comes to both animals. 
:)

I mostly agree with this but I still like to ask people who have a lot more experience than you or I.  We've seen a handful of cats compared with some who've seen far more, especially guides. I have asked that question quite a few times and I've gotten many different answers, including my own. But that being said, I've probably gotten a few more who say the Tiger is larger but that is anything but conclusive. But my personal opinion is that they're way too close to conclusively determine one to be larger than the other with the naked eye.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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Norway Pantherinae Offline
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#84

(01-08-2019, 04:42 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(01-08-2019, 01:29 PM)Pantherinae Wrote:
(01-08-2019, 12:45 AM)Pckts Wrote: I asked Nick Kleer how the Tigers he's seen compare to the Lions he's seen

His response:
"
bengal tigers are a fare size bigger than lions"


He's a guide at the Londolozi game reserve


You can see our convo on his Insta if you're inclined. Nick Kleer (@nickkleer)

I think that is just a basic response I often see because many people think the tiger is much bigger before they have even seen them. I have seen lions in Krüger and tigers and there aren’t much to pick from, certanly not "a fare size bigger" I don’t think many people even guides are as interested in size as all of us are here on this forum. 

You also have seen both animals too, and a big dominant male in the reserve in which many belives to hold the biggest tigers in Central India. And if I’m not mistaken you also said they where pretty close in size. And I belive you are as I am very much more paying attention to the size of animals than most guides. So I think a large male tiger is bigger than small male lions and vice versa. 
And I consider you’re words as well as mine higher tbh and not to sound arrogant, but size is the first thing I think about when I see a big cat. I doubt that is the case with guides. 
Hopefully I can see a TOM tiger in Kanha then it will be even more interesting to compare. 

And I know you and I are fair when it comes to both animals. 
:)

I mostly agree with this but I still like to ask people who have a lot more experience than you or I.  We've seen a handful of cats compared with some who've seen far more, especially guides. I have asked that question quite a few times and I've gotten many different answers, including my own. But that being said, I've probably gotten a few more who say the Tiger is larger but that is anything but conclusive. But my personal opinion is that they're way too close to conclusively determine one to be larger than the other with the naked eye.
Yes I agree, there is no problem in asking. I do the same, it’s always interesting to hear from peoples opinion and get their view. 
I just often get the: "they where close I couldn’t see a big difference, but tigers are bigger" answer, with a link to Wikipedia. 
I think they are to close to tell the difference, imho, as I said I think just as with different specimen of the same species being larger than others. The same goes for different induviduals of these two species being larger or smaller imo.
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