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Cat anatomy

United States Pckts Offline
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#46
( This post was last modified: 09-21-2017, 12:21 AM by Pckts )

(09-21-2017, 12:05 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: @Pckts

The Sumatran tiger got a prominent ruff around the cheek, and it also got very intimidating glare in its eyes.

So a 120 kg male Sumatran tiger would still possess a more rough look than a 300 kg male Amur tiger with a chubby/fluffy appearance.

So the mane/ruff is an intimidation factor for you?
That makes sense since it's one of it's purposes.

I think for you it may have a lot to do with coat color and and stripe prominence.

Amur's have the lightest coats and least prominent stripes, especially on their face while Bengals have a darker coat with a more prominent stripe and Sumatrans have the most dominate stripe pattern, especially in their face.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
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( This post was last modified: 09-21-2017, 12:52 AM by GrizzlyClaws )

(09-21-2017, 12:20 AM)Pckts Wrote: So the mane/ruff is an intimidation factor for you?
That makes sense since it's one of it's purposes.

I think for you it may have a lot to do with coat color and and stripe prominence.

Amur's have the lightest coats and least prominent stripes, especially on their face while Bengals have a darker coat with a more prominent stripe and Sumatrans have the most dominate stripe pattern, especially in their face.

When I read the online comments, I often noticed that many people tend to associate the Amur tiger with the terms like cute, cuddly, etc.

In comparison, I have never seen these terms were ever used to associate with the adult lion or even the Bengal tiger.

If we ignore their aggressive nature, and by going to the outer appearance, I think the male lion's look is purely driven by the brute factor, while the Bengal tiger plays a balanced factor between the brute strength and the athleticism. And the Amur tiger plays too much cuteness/cuddly factor. No wonder they were often considered as one of the least aggressive big cats. But in the reality, they are just as agressive as the Bengal tigers.
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United States Pckts Offline
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#48

(09-21-2017, 12:46 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:
(09-21-2017, 12:20 AM)Pckts Wrote: So the mane/ruff is an intimidation factor for you?
That makes sense since it's one of it's purposes.

I think for you it may have a lot to do with coat color and and stripe prominence.

Amur's have the lightest coats and least prominent stripes, especially on their face while Bengals have a darker coat with a more prominent stripe and Sumatrans have the most dominate stripe pattern, especially in their face.

When I read the online comments, I often noticed that many people tend to associate the Amur tiger with the terms like cute, cuddly, etc.

In comparison, I have never seen these terms were ever used to associate with the adult lion or even the Bengal tiger.

If we ignore their aggressive nature, and by going to the outer appearance, I think the male lion's look is purely driven by the brute factor, while the Bengal tiger plays a balanced factor between the brute strength and the athleticism. And the Amur tiger plays too much cuteness/cuddly factor. No wonder they were often considered as one of the least aggressive big cats. But in the reality, they are just as agressive as the Bengal tigers.

That's not the perception I have on Wild Amurs, I find their deep set eyes and heavy muzzle quite intimidating, but to each their own.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
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( This post was last modified: 09-21-2017, 02:34 AM by HyperNova )

@peter
You said the lion was a powerful locker, what do you mean by that?
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( This post was last modified: 09-23-2017, 01:40 PM by peter )

(09-21-2017, 02:34 AM)HyperNova Wrote: @peter
You said the lion was a powerful locker, what do you mean by that?

When wild lions hunt large animals, males often participate. They use their forelimbs to grab and their weight to tire it and to bring their victim down. The jaws are used to lock, to hold and to maul, not to kill as fast as possible. This method allows other members of the pride to close in and participate in the killing. 

As killing a large and struggling animal can take a lot of time, lion skeletons and, in particular, skulls developed to deal with stress. This means they were reinforced in places where it matters most. If the jaws are used in this way (referring to male lions), there is a lot of pressure on the anterior part of the skull. This, most probably, is the reason the 'snout' of male lions was strengthened and why a bit of length was added. It also resulted in a convex mandibula. The combination of a longer and reinforced 'snout' and a convex mandibula resulted in a longish skull able to deal with pressure in the jaw region. The upper and lower jaw function as parts of a two-part lock.

If you want it visualized, imagine a human, say a professional hunter, with a spike in each hand. The spikes are used to contact a large animal and to hold on. The animal will try to escape by moving away from him. As it is much heavier than he is, he will be dragged forward. This means that the pressure created by the victim will move from his hands to his feet (a horizontal line). Some parts of his skeleton, for this reason, will need to be reinforced and it will most probably start with the bones in his hands and arms. 

A solitary hunter can't kill a large animal in this way. Not without damage, I mean. A solitary hunter has to find another way to kill a large animal. He can either strengthen his body (a) or develop efficient killing tools (b).

Bears (a) strengthened their body. They are so strong that they can attack nearly all animals. More robustness and weight, however, also meant they lost the speed needed to contact most prey animals. For this reason, they added fish, carrots, fruits and insects to their diet. This works, but only if it's available. In the northern hemisphere, bears often face long winters. This means that energy deficits can be expected every year. If they live in regions that have good hunters, like big cats, they can consider following and displacing them, but this is not a structural solution. As the food problem never was quite solved, hibernation was the only option. This is the reason that bears always worry about the food problem. Compared to cats, bears are much more food-orientated.

Big cats (b) developed efficient killing tools, but most species living in the northern hemisphere face bears. As they are not large enough to keep them at bay, they often are displaced. Pumas, for this reason, have to hunt more often than expected. This results in energy deficits.

Tigers, however, do quite well in the bear department. Like lions, they hunt large animals. The difference is they hunt on their own, meaning they can't afford a long struggle. This is the reason they developed efficient killing tools. Compared to lions, tigers have larger and more robust canines. The long canines enable them to get to a vital spot fast. This means that they need to be able to concentrate maximum force at the tip of the canines. For this reason, their skull was reinforced in those parts that matter. Tiger skulls can be considered as anchors for the large canines. 

As tigers need to be able to exercise vertical pressure, their skulls are vaulted. Skulls of male lions in particular developed to withstand horizontal pressure. This means that a vault isn't needed. Tigers, biters, have relatively short faces, whereas skulls of male lions, maulers, are relatively long.

When captive lions attack humans, they use the same method as wild lions. This means that don't use their skull to kill as fast as possible, but to pin and maul their victim. This means that he or she, if not bitten in the head, stands a small chance to survive a mauling. I know of several cases of keepers mauled in this way. If lionesses attack, they, like tigers and leopards, target the neck or skull in order to kill their victim as fast as possible.  

To conclude. Tigers, solitary hunters, have long and robust canines. Their skull developed to exercise maximum pressure at the tip of the canines. This is why they have short and rounded faces and a vaulted skull. Male lions can and do kill in the same way, but pride males in particular also often use their jaws to hold and maul a large animal. The pressure created by the struggling animals travels from nose to tail. For this reason, their skull developed to withstand significant pressure on a horizontal line. This is why male lions don't have a vault, this is why their 'snout' was lengthened and reinforced and this is why the angle of their canines isn't as acute as in tigers. The upper and lower jaw of a male lion serve as two parts of a steel lock. Once in, you can't get out.

All clear? If not, have another look at the pictures I posted. Watch the pressure lines.
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(09-23-2017, 01:32 PM)peter Wrote:
(09-21-2017, 02:34 AM)HyperNova Wrote: @peter
You said the lion was a powerful locker, what do you mean by that?

When wild lions hunt large animals, males often participate. They use their forelimbs to grab and their weight to tire it and to bring their victim down. The jaws are used to lock, to hold and to maul, not to kill as fast as possible. This method allows other members of the pride to close in and participate in the killing. 

As killing a large and struggling animal can take a lot of time, lion skeletons and, in particular, skulls developed to deal with stress. This means they were reinforced in places where it matters most. If the jaws are used in this way (referring to male lions), there is a lot of pressure on the anterior part of the skull. This, most probably, is the reason the 'snout' of male lions was strengthened and why a bit of length was added. It also resulted in a convex mandibula. The combination of a longer and reinforced 'snout' and a convex mandibula resulted in a longish skull able to deal with pressure in the jaw region. The upper and lower jaw function as parts of a two-part lock.

If you want it visualized, imagine a human, say a professional hunter, with a spike in each hand. The spikes are used to contact a large animal and to hold on. The animal will try to escape by moving away from him. As it is much heavier than he is, he will be dragged forward. This means that the pressure created by the victim will move from his hands to his feet (a horizontal line). Some parts of his skeleton, for this reason, will need to be reinforced and it will most probably start with the bones in his hands and arms. 

A solitary hunter can't kill a large animal in this way. Not without damage, I mean. A solitary hunter has to find another way to kill a large animal. He can either strengthen his body (a) or develop efficient killing tools (b).

Bears (a) strengthened their body. They are so strong that they can attack nearly all animals. More robustness and weight, however, also meant they lost the speed needed to contact most prey animals. For this reason, they added fish, carrots, fruits and insects to their diet. This works, but only if it's available. In the northern hemisphere, bears often face long winters. This means that energy deficits can be expected every year. If they live in regions that have good hunters, like big cats, they can consider following and displacing them, but this is not a structural solution. As the food problem never was quite solved, hibernation was the only option. This is the reason that bears always worry about the food problem. Compared to cats, bears are much more food-orientated.

Big cats (b) developed efficient killing tools, but most species living in the northern hemisphere face bears. As they are not large enough to keep them at bay, they often are displaced. Pumas, for this reason, have to hunt more often than expected. This results in energy deficits.

Tigers, however, do quite well in the bear department. Like lions, they hunt large animals. The difference is they hunt on their own, meaning they can't afford a long struggle. This is the reason they developed efficient killing tools. Compared to lions, tigers have larger and more robust canines. The long canines enable them to get to a vital spot fast. This means that they need to be able to concentrate maximum force at the tip of the canines. For this reason, their skull was reinforced in those parts that matter. Tiger skulls can be considered as anchors for the large canines. 

As tigers need to be able to exercise vertical pressure, their skulls are vaulted. Skulls of male lions in particular developed to withstand horizontal pressure. This means that a vault isn't needed. Tigers, biters, have relatively short faces, whereas skulls of male lions, maulers, are relatively long.

When captive lions attack humans, they use the same method as wild lions. This means that don't use their skull to kill as fast as possible, but to pin and maul their victim. This means that he or she, if not bitten in the head, stands a small chance to survive a mauling. I know of several cases of keepers mauled in this way. If lionesses attack, they, like tigers and leopards, target the neck or skull in order to kill their victim as fast as possible.  

To conclude. Tigers, solitary hunters, have long and robust canines. Their skull developed to exercise maximum pressure at the tip of the canines. This is why they have short and rounded faces and a vaulted skull. Male lions can and do kill in the same way, but pride males in particular also often use their jaws to hold and maul a large animal. The pressure created by the struggling animals travels from nose to tail. For this reason, their skull developed to withstand significant pressure on a horizontal line. This is why male lions don't have a vault, this is why their 'snout' was lengthened and reinforced and this is why the angle of their canines isn't as acute as in tigers. The upper and lower jaw of a male lion serve as two parts of a steel lock. Once in, you can't get out.

All clear? If not, have another look at the pictures I posted. Watch the pressure lines.

One note that I would like to make is that, I wouldn't say bears are slower than other carnivores to contact prey animals in terms of running speed and reflexes. They can run just as fast as other big cats (with even farther endurance). But if by slower by say, agility, I would agree they don't do as well as big cats when it comes to grappling the prey in situations where total-body flexibility is needed the most. Otherwise, I completely concur with your other statements.
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( This post was last modified: 09-24-2017, 07:10 AM by HyperNova )

(09-24-2017, 05:28 AM)Polar Wrote:
(09-23-2017, 01:32 PM)peter Wrote:
(09-21-2017, 02:34 AM)HyperNova Wrote: @peter
You said the lion was a powerful locker, what do you mean by that?

When wild lions hunt large animals, males often participate. They use their forelimbs to grab and their weight to tire it and to bring their victim down. The jaws are used to lock, to hold and to maul, not to kill as fast as possible. This method allows other members of the pride to close in and participate in the killing. 

As killing a large and struggling animal can take a lot of time, lion skeletons and, in particular, skulls developed to deal with stress. This means they were reinforced in places where it matters most. If the jaws are used in this way (referring to male lions), there is a lot of pressure on the anterior part of the skull. This, most probably, is the reason the 'snout' of male lions was strengthened and why a bit of length was added. It also resulted in a convex mandibula. The combination of a longer and reinforced 'snout' and a convex mandibula resulted in a longish skull able to deal with pressure in the jaw region. The upper and lower jaw function as parts of a two-part lock.

If you want it visualized, imagine a human, say a professional hunter, with a spike in each hand. The spikes are used to contact a large animal and to hold on. The animal will try to escape by moving away from him. As it is much heavier than he is, he will be dragged forward. This means that the pressure created by the victim will move from his hands to his feet (a horizontal line). Some parts of his skeleton, for this reason, will need to be reinforced and it will most probably start with the bones in his hands and arms. 

A solitary hunter can't kill a large animal in this way. Not without damage, I mean. A solitary hunter has to find another way to kill a large animal. He can either strengthen his body (a) or develop efficient killing tools (b).

Bears (a) strengthened their body. They are so strong that they can attack nearly all animals. More robustness and weight, however, also meant they lost the speed needed to contact most prey animals. For this reason, they added fish, carrots, fruits and insects to their diet. This works, but only if it's available. In the northern hemisphere, bears often face long winters. This means that energy deficits can be expected every year. If they live in regions that have good hunters, like big cats, they can consider following and displacing them, but this is not a structural solution. As the food problem never was quite solved, hibernation was the only option. This is the reason that bears always worry about the food problem. Compared to cats, bears are much more food-orientated.

Big cats (b) developed efficient killing tools, but most species living in the northern hemisphere face bears. As they are not large enough to keep them at bay, they often are displaced. Pumas, for this reason, have to hunt more often than expected. This results in energy deficits.

Tigers, however, do quite well in the bear department. Like lions, they hunt large animals. The difference is they hunt on their own, meaning they can't afford a long struggle. This is the reason they developed efficient killing tools. Compared to lions, tigers have larger and more robust canines. The long canines enable them to get to a vital spot fast. This means that they need to be able to concentrate maximum force at the tip of the canines. For this reason, their skull was reinforced in those parts that matter. Tiger skulls can be considered as anchors for the large canines. 

As tigers need to be able to exercise vertical pressure, their skulls are vaulted. Skulls of male lions in particular developed to withstand horizontal pressure. This means that a vault isn't needed. Tigers, biters, have relatively short faces, whereas skulls of male lions, maulers, are relatively long.

When captive lions attack humans, they use the same method as wild lions. This means that don't use their skull to kill as fast as possible, but to pin and maul their victim. This means that he or she, if not bitten in the head, stands a small chance to survive a mauling. I know of several cases of keepers mauled in this way. If lionesses attack, they, like tigers and leopards, target the neck or skull in order to kill their victim as fast as possible.  

To conclude. Tigers, solitary hunters, have long and robust canines. Their skull developed to exercise maximum pressure at the tip of the canines. This is why they have short and rounded faces and a vaulted skull. Male lions can and do kill in the same way, but pride males in particular also often use their jaws to hold and maul a large animal. The pressure created by the struggling animals travels from nose to tail. For this reason, their skull developed to withstand significant pressure on a horizontal line. This is why male lions don't have a vault, this is why their 'snout' was lengthened and reinforced and this is why the angle of their canines isn't as acute as in tigers. The upper and lower jaw of a male lion serve as two parts of a steel lock. Once in, you can't get out.

All clear? If not, have another look at the pictures I posted. Watch the pressure lines.

One note that I would like to make is that, I wouldn't say bears are slower than other carnivores to contact prey animals in terms of running speed and reflexes. They can run just as fast as other big cats (with even farther endurance). But if by slower by say, agility, I would agree they don't do as well as big cats when it comes to grappling the prey in situations where total-body flexibility is needed the most. Otherwise, I completely concur with your other statements.

What was the maximum sprinting speed recorded from a bear? I somewhat doubt they can run as fast as big cats.
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( This post was last modified: 09-24-2017, 07:29 AM by Polar )

(09-24-2017, 07:10 AM)HyperNova Wrote:
(09-24-2017, 05:28 AM)Polar Wrote:
(09-23-2017, 01:32 PM)peter Wrote:
(09-21-2017, 02:34 AM)HyperNova Wrote: @peter
You said the lion was a powerful locker, what do you mean by that?

When wild lions hunt large animals, males often participate. They use their forelimbs to grab and their weight to tire it and to bring their victim down. The jaws are used to lock, to hold and to maul, not to kill as fast as possible. This method allows other members of the pride to close in and participate in the killing. 

As killing a large and struggling animal can take a lot of time, lion skeletons and, in particular, skulls developed to deal with stress. This means they were reinforced in places where it matters most. If the jaws are used in this way (referring to male lions), there is a lot of pressure on the anterior part of the skull. This, most probably, is the reason the 'snout' of male lions was strengthened and why a bit of length was added. It also resulted in a convex mandibula. The combination of a longer and reinforced 'snout' and a convex mandibula resulted in a longish skull able to deal with pressure in the jaw region. The upper and lower jaw function as parts of a two-part lock.

If you want it visualized, imagine a human, say a professional hunter, with a spike in each hand. The spikes are used to contact a large animal and to hold on. The animal will try to escape by moving away from him. As it is much heavier than he is, he will be dragged forward. This means that the pressure created by the victim will move from his hands to his feet (a horizontal line). Some parts of his skeleton, for this reason, will need to be reinforced and it will most probably start with the bones in his hands and arms. 

A solitary hunter can't kill a large animal in this way. Not without damage, I mean. A solitary hunter has to find another way to kill a large animal. He can either strengthen his body (a) or develop efficient killing tools (b).

Bears (a) strengthened their body. They are so strong that they can attack nearly all animals. More robustness and weight, however, also meant they lost the speed needed to contact most prey animals. For this reason, they added fish, carrots, fruits and insects to their diet. This works, but only if it's available. In the northern hemisphere, bears often face long winters. This means that energy deficits can be expected every year. If they live in regions that have good hunters, like big cats, they can consider following and displacing them, but this is not a structural solution. As the food problem never was quite solved, hibernation was the only option. This is the reason that bears always worry about the food problem. Compared to cats, bears are much more food-orientated.

Big cats (b) developed efficient killing tools, but most species living in the northern hemisphere face bears. As they are not large enough to keep them at bay, they often are displaced. Pumas, for this reason, have to hunt more often than expected. This results in energy deficits.

Tigers, however, do quite well in the bear department. Like lions, they hunt large animals. The difference is they hunt on their own, meaning they can't afford a long struggle. This is the reason they developed efficient killing tools. Compared to lions, tigers have larger and more robust canines. The long canines enable them to get to a vital spot fast. This means that they need to be able to concentrate maximum force at the tip of the canines. For this reason, their skull was reinforced in those parts that matter. Tiger skulls can be considered as anchors for the large canines. 

As tigers need to be able to exercise vertical pressure, their skulls are vaulted. Skulls of male lions in particular developed to withstand horizontal pressure. This means that a vault isn't needed. Tigers, biters, have relatively short faces, whereas skulls of male lions, maulers, are relatively long.

When captive lions attack humans, they use the same method as wild lions. This means that don't use their skull to kill as fast as possible, but to pin and maul their victim. This means that he or she, if not bitten in the head, stands a small chance to survive a mauling. I know of several cases of keepers mauled in this way. If lionesses attack, they, like tigers and leopards, target the neck or skull in order to kill their victim as fast as possible.  

To conclude. Tigers, solitary hunters, have long and robust canines. Their skull developed to exercise maximum pressure at the tip of the canines. This is why they have short and rounded faces and a vaulted skull. Male lions can and do kill in the same way, but pride males in particular also often use their jaws to hold and maul a large animal. The pressure created by the struggling animals travels from nose to tail. For this reason, their skull developed to withstand significant pressure on a horizontal line. This is why male lions don't have a vault, this is why their 'snout' was lengthened and reinforced and this is why the angle of their canines isn't as acute as in tigers. The upper and lower jaw of a male lion serve as two parts of a steel lock. Once in, you can't get out.

All clear? If not, have another look at the pictures I posted. Watch the pressure lines.

One note that I would like to make is that, I wouldn't say bears are slower than other carnivores to contact prey animals in terms of running speed and reflexes. They can run just as fast as other big cats (with even farther endurance). But if by slower by say, agility, I would agree they don't do as well as big cats when it comes to grappling the prey in situations where total-body flexibility is needed the most. Otherwise, I completely concur with your other statements.

What was the maximum sprinting speed from a bear? I somewhat doubt they can run as fast as big cats.

Approximately 35 mph according to the National Park Service at Yellowstone:

"For 50 or 100 yards a Grizzly can go faster than any horse..."Ben" Arnold has reported further evidence on this question of speed of grizzlies. While the Arnolds were driving from Mammoth to Tower Falls one night early last summer, four grizzlies, a mother and three yearling cubs, were seen in the road ahead of the car at a distance of about two hundred yards. The bears immediately turned and ran down the road for a full half mile before dashing up the hill into the timber and out of sight. For the last quarter mile, they averaged 30 miles per hour and were not crowded at all. The bears were running on the oiled road, and did not have the advantage they would have had on a dirt surface."

Bear Running Accounts and Speeds

So in this account, the grizzlies could run faster provided that they are on more even ground. Big cats normally run 36-45 mph, with lions at the lower end and tigers at the higher end. So, if they averaged 30mph(for a long quarter of a mile) then bears are on the lower spectrum of big cats running speed, moreso equal to a lion's running speed.
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Sorry about the weird format. My phone is getting cranky.
"Be the reason someone smiles. Be the reason someone feels loved and believes in the goodness in people."

- Roy T. Bennett
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(09-24-2017, 07:28 AM)Polar Wrote:
(09-24-2017, 07:10 AM)HyperNova Wrote:
(09-24-2017, 05:28 AM)Polar Wrote:
(09-23-2017, 01:32 PM)peter Wrote:
(09-21-2017, 02:34 AM)HyperNova Wrote: @peter
You said the lion was a powerful locker, what do you mean by that?

When wild lions hunt large animals, males often participate. They use their forelimbs to grab and their weight to tire it and to bring their victim down. The jaws are used to lock, to hold and to maul, not to kill as fast as possible. This method allows other members of the pride to close in and participate in the killing. 

As killing a large and struggling animal can take a lot of time, lion skeletons and, in particular, skulls developed to deal with stress. This means they were reinforced in places where it matters most. If the jaws are used in this way (referring to male lions), there is a lot of pressure on the anterior part of the skull. This, most probably, is the reason the 'snout' of male lions was strengthened and why a bit of length was added. It also resulted in a convex mandibula. The combination of a longer and reinforced 'snout' and a convex mandibula resulted in a longish skull able to deal with pressure in the jaw region. The upper and lower jaw function as parts of a two-part lock.

If you want it visualized, imagine a human, say a professional hunter, with a spike in each hand. The spikes are used to contact a large animal and to hold on. The animal will try to escape by moving away from him. As it is much heavier than he is, he will be dragged forward. This means that the pressure created by the victim will move from his hands to his feet (a horizontal line). Some parts of his skeleton, for this reason, will need to be reinforced and it will most probably start with the bones in his hands and arms. 

A solitary hunter can't kill a large animal in this way. Not without damage, I mean. A solitary hunter has to find another way to kill a large animal. He can either strengthen his body (a) or develop efficient killing tools (b).

Bears (a) strengthened their body. They are so strong that they can attack nearly all animals. More robustness and weight, however, also meant they lost the speed needed to contact most prey animals. For this reason, they added fish, carrots, fruits and insects to their diet. This works, but only if it's available. In the northern hemisphere, bears often face long winters. This means that energy deficits can be expected every year. If they live in regions that have good hunters, like big cats, they can consider following and displacing them, but this is not a structural solution. As the food problem never was quite solved, hibernation was the only option. This is the reason that bears always worry about the food problem. Compared to cats, bears are much more food-orientated.

Big cats (b) developed efficient killing tools, but most species living in the northern hemisphere face bears. As they are not large enough to keep them at bay, they often are displaced. Pumas, for this reason, have to hunt more often than expected. This results in energy deficits.

Tigers, however, do quite well in the bear department. Like lions, they hunt large animals. The difference is they hunt on their own, meaning they can't afford a long struggle. This is the reason they developed efficient killing tools. Compared to lions, tigers have larger and more robust canines. The long canines enable them to get to a vital spot fast. This means that they need to be able to concentrate maximum force at the tip of the canines. For this reason, their skull was reinforced in those parts that matter. Tiger skulls can be considered as anchors for the large canines. 

As tigers need to be able to exercise vertical pressure, their skulls are vaulted. Skulls of male lions in particular developed to withstand horizontal pressure. This means that a vault isn't needed. Tigers, biters, have relatively short faces, whereas skulls of male lions, maulers, are relatively long.

When captive lions attack humans, they use the same method as wild lions. This means that don't use their skull to kill as fast as possible, but to pin and maul their victim. This means that he or she, if not bitten in the head, stands a small chance to survive a mauling. I know of several cases of keepers mauled in this way. If lionesses attack, they, like tigers and leopards, target the neck or skull in order to kill their victim as fast as possible.  

To conclude. Tigers, solitary hunters, have long and robust canines. Their skull developed to exercise maximum pressure at the tip of the canines. This is why they have short and rounded faces and a vaulted skull. Male lions can and do kill in the same way, but pride males in particular also often use their jaws to hold and maul a large animal. The pressure created by the struggling animals travels from nose to tail. For this reason, their skull developed to withstand significant pressure on a horizontal line. This is why male lions don't have a vault, this is why their 'snout' was lengthened and reinforced and this is why the angle of their canines isn't as acute as in tigers. The upper and lower jaw of a male lion serve as two parts of a steel lock. Once in, you can't get out.

All clear? If not, have another look at the pictures I posted. Watch the pressure lines.

One note that I would like to make is that, I wouldn't say bears are slower than other carnivores to contact prey animals in terms of running speed and reflexes. They can run just as fast as other big cats (with even farther endurance). But if by slower by say, agility, I would agree they don't do as well as big cats when it comes to grappling the prey in situations where total-body flexibility is needed the most. Otherwise, I completely concur with your other statements.

What was the maximum sprinting speed from a bear? I somewhat doubt they can run as fast as big cats.

Approximately 35 mph according to the National Park Service at Yellowstone:

"For 50 or 100 yards a Grizzly can go faster than any horse..."Ben" Arnold has reported further evidence on this question of speed of grizzlies. While the Arnolds were driving from Mammoth to Tower Falls one night early last summer, four grizzlies, a mother and three yearling cubs, were seen in the road ahead of the car at a distance of about two hundred yards. The bears immediately turned and ran down the road for a full half mile before dashing up the hill into the timber and out of sight. For the last quarter mile, they averaged 30 miles per hour and were not crowded at all. The bears were running on the oiled road, and did not have the advantage they would have had on a dirt surface."

Bear Running Accounts and Speeds

So in this account, the grizzlies could run faster provided that they are on more even ground. Big cats normally run 36-45 mph, with lions at the lower end and tigers at the higher end. So, if they averaged 30mph(for a long quarter of a mile) then bears are on the lower spectrum of big cats running speed, moreso equal to a lion's running speed.


Thanks but how did they measured the speed? Was this an estimate?
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United States Polar Offline
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#56

By keeping the same distance with the car they were following, at all times.

So if the car goes at 30 mph, and they are at the same distance for a period of time, then the bear is going the same speed.
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Switzerland Spalea Offline
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#57

@Polar 

About #53: Agree with you as concerns the bears speed, but when you say:

"So in this account, the grizzlies could run faster provided that they are on more even ground. Big cats normally run 36-45 mph, with lions at the lower end and tigers at the higher end. So, if they averaged 30mph(for a long quarter of a mile) then bears are on the lower spectrum of big cats running speed, moreso equal to a lion's running speed."


I must object that, being hunters in open space (savannah for them, jungle for the tigers), the lions are able to run at last as fast as the tigers. I wouldn't be surprised too to see that lionesses are in fact faster than the male tigers (because slender body). On the other hand, tigers hunting more often on short distance in a denser biotop in terms of vegetation, they are certainly swifter when they had to turn or twirl around themselves (hind legs more adapted to do this).

But we have already spoken about that...
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( This post was last modified: 09-24-2017, 01:02 PM by Polar )

(09-24-2017, 11:54 AM)Spalea Wrote: @Polar 

About #53: Agree with you as concerns the bears speed, but when you say:

"So in this account, the grizzlies could run faster provided that they are on more even ground. Big cats normally run 36-45 mph, with lions at the lower end and tigers at the higher end. So, if they averaged 30mph(for a long quarter of a mile) then bears are on the lower spectrum of big cats running speed, moreso equal to a lion's running speed."


I must object that, being hunters in open space (savannah for them, jungle for the tigers), the lions are able to run at last as fast as the tigers. I wouldn't be surprised too to see that lionesses are in fact faster than the male tigers (because slender body). On the other hand, tigers hunting more often on short distance in a denser biotop in terms of vegetation, they are certainly swifter when they had to turn or twirl around themselves (hind legs more adapted to do this).

But we have already spoken about that...

I think both male lions and tigers would run significantly faster than both female lions and tigers, this is due to the natural physical advantages of males over females. But when it comes to ambushing a prey in the shortest amount of time, a much faster spatial mind and stronger forelimbs and hindlegs would help a tiger quite well in catching the prey in the shortest amount of time possible. This will result in faster sprints.

In contrast, lions, with their increased lung capacity over tigers, would have slightly more endurance on average for chasing prey down longer distances. But, again, the differences between these two cats is quite small and they are both big cats, so both are adapted to similar end goals in an evolutionary sense.
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#59

@Polar :

About #58: quite agree with you ! And, anyway, the difference must be quite small.

Nevertheless I am a little bit surprised when you say that both male lions and tigers would run faster than the females. Yes, males are stronger, but being stronger implies to be heavier, so an handicap for running. And when I see some photos of lionesses and tigresses that are almost "gracile" in comparaison, I would have think they run the fastest.

Because, in the human society we speak about "strong sex" and "weak sex" in terms of physical performances, that isn't male chauvinism to state that. But as concerns the wild life, the mammals among wild animals, I seriously think that the females have other assets. And in terms of physical performances, OK males are the strongest, but the females doesn't make up the "weak sex". I wouldn't be surprised to see that they are generally faster.
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( This post was last modified: 09-24-2017, 09:59 PM by Polar )

(09-24-2017, 01:56 PM)Spalea Wrote: @Polar :

About #58: quite agree with you ! And, anyway, the difference must be quite small.

Nevertheless I am a little bit surprised when you say that both male lions and tigers would run faster than the females. Yes, males are stronger, but being stronger implies to be heavier, so an handicap for running. And when I see some photos of lionesses and tigresses that are almost "gracile" in comparaison, I would have think they run the fastest.

Because, in the human society we speak about "strong sex" and "weak sex" in terms of physical performances, that isn't male chauvinism to state that. But as concerns the wild life, the mammals among wild animals, I seriously think that the females have other assets. And in terms of physical performances, OK males are the strongest, but the females doesn't make up the "weak sex". I wouldn't be surprised to see that they are generally faster.

Lionesses and tigresses might seem faster than their male counterparts, but that is because they look more skinnier and less bulkier: we have this natural pre-conception to state that skinnier and smaller animals run faster than larger animals because greater speed is associated with lower weight in our eyes (the bear is a contradiction to this idea). The female counterparts are definitely more flexible back-wise, I'll give you that, just like human females are more flexible than human males when it comes to the hipbone.

There also comes a part where a more flexible running gait can make a big cat faster (such as tiger having a more flexible gait than lion, and thus running faster), but compared with natural muscular/neuro-muscular advantages these differences are nullified in preference of the muscular advantages in males. Male lions, although heavier, also have more muscle mass per body mass and increased neuro-muscular advantages as a result of testosterone, and that gives them a greater turbo than the females.

However, the difference in flexibility is not as significant as the difference in strength/speed/agility/endurance/reflexes between males and females: with the males having a very clear advantage in the latter and females in the former. Male big cats are incredibly flexible as well. So it would be safe to say that there is a "strong" and a "weaker" sex in terms of physicality in the animal world too.
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