There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(11-17-2021, 09:27 PM)Slayerd Wrote: Torchwood Male looking incredible. We haven't posted much on him here ever since he traveled to the Timbavati but he has grown a lot. He is definitely the more dominant and his mane has filled out more and has become so dark. I've never seen a lion his age have such a dark mane. He has a lot of testosterone meaning he will be a very strong individual. Considering the growth of the Birmingham Boys from 2015 to 2017. This Boy has a lot more he can grow into.
It is so interesting, the speed at which relationship dynamics can change. The first time he and BYM interacted, the images looked to me as if TYM was the one taking a more submissive posture, and BYM a more aggressive and dominant one. In fact, I believe those initial reports stated that BYM had chased him off.
Now that they have had time to build a solid relationship, it is the exact opposite and is TYM who is the dominant one. Not sure if injuries could be playing a role, or if TYM is just more assertive and dominant, but it seemed to me during one of, if not their first, joint kills, a buffalo, it was TYM who had taken charge of the head, and was the one who finish the buffalo off.
Glad that he beat the odds being a lone young male in a pride, found a coalition partner and even in an area that is well covered and not in a info black hole that is Kruger proper. On a good track to be an overachiever really (relative to starting situation, genetically he seems to be dealt a strong hand).
(11-19-2021, 01:01 AM)RookiePundit Wrote: Glad that he beat the odds being a lone young male in a pride, found a coalition partner and even in an area that is well covered and not in a info black hole that is Kruger proper. On a good track to be an overachiever really (relative to starting situation, genetically he seems to be dealt a strong hand).
Against all odds. The Torchwood young male proven us how incredible and poetic the nature can be. Ironically, his new partner, Is related with him by his grand-fathers/mothers. Since the BYM was sired by white dot and white dot is said to be Nhenha mother (from what I heard)
I do not think words "against all odds" is appropriate in that case. Torchwood male had at least decent start and his odds were not any worst than most of other males around.
11-19-2021, 08:29 PM( This post was last modified: 11-19-2021, 08:30 PM by Slayerd )
(11-19-2021, 07:04 PM)Potato Wrote: I do not think words "against all odds" is appropriate in that case. Torchwood male had at least decent start and his odds were not any worst than most of other males around.
That depends on how you see "all odds". Is it what you view as a comparison against the odds that others faced or the odds he was personally faced with. If you're trying to compare him to others, than you won't value his fight as much but his own struggles carry its own level of weight. People might think that the Birmingham Young Male had a harder time with his problems but the Torchwood Male was for eg. On his own for far longer. They each had their own issue. If you want to see one as harsher than the other, off course you won't value his struggles
(11-19-2021, 08:29 PM)Slayerd Wrote: On his own for far longer.
Torchwood became alone only when he wanted it to be like that. He spent his time with a pride members bassicly all the way to adulthood.
(11-19-2021, 08:29 PM)Slayerd Wrote: If you're trying to compare him to others
That is exactly what I do. Otherway it doesn't make sense. If we came from the conclusion that it is standard for the male lions to have bad odds for survival then what is the point of pointing this out. It only make sense to judge those odds through prism of odds otherlions have.
(11-19-2021, 08:29 PM)Slayerd Wrote: On his own for far longer.
Torchwood became alone only when he wanted it to be like that. He spent his time with a pride members bassicly all the way to adulthood.
(11-19-2021, 08:29 PM)Slayerd Wrote: If you're trying to compare him to others
That is exactly what I do. Otherway it doesn't make sense. If we came from the conclusion that it is standard for the male lions to have bad odds for survival then what is the point of pointing this out. It only make sense to judge those odds through prism of odds otherlions have.
That's incorrect, you have no idea why he spent his time on his own. It was probably the Kruger Males who kept him from his pride
11-20-2021, 05:57 AM( This post was last modified: 11-20-2021, 05:58 AM by sik94 )
(11-20-2021, 04:58 AM)Slayerd Wrote:
(11-19-2021, 09:40 PM)Potato Wrote:
(11-19-2021, 08:29 PM)Slayerd Wrote: On his own for far longer.
Torchwood became alone only when he wanted it to be like that. He spent his time with a pride members bassicly all the way to adulthood.
(11-19-2021, 08:29 PM)Slayerd Wrote: If you're trying to compare him to others
That is exactly what I do. Otherway it doesn't make sense. If we came from the conclusion that it is standard for the male lions to have bad odds for survival then what is the point of pointing this out. It only make sense to judge those odds through prism of odds otherlions have.
That's incorrect, you have no idea why he spent his time on his own. It was probably the Kruger Males who kept him from his pride
BYM definitely had a harsher life. He was a lone male and under immense pressure from 2 dominant males and was beat down multiple times, BYM needed the pride after his injury or he wouldn't have survived but had to "walk into the lions' den" in the name of the Ross males to get to the pride. TYM had only one issue, not having brothers, but even that doesn't mean much since they both had this problem. Kruger males never tookover the whole torchwood pride afaik, TYM hung out with one of the torchwood splinter groups till he wanted and eventually made the transition to becoming nomadic. Sure, he had his own struggles but there's definitely an objective comparison to be made about who had tougher odds and it was definitely BYM.
(11-20-2021, 04:58 AM)Slayerd Wrote: That's incorrect, you have no idea why he spent his time on his own. It was probably the Kruger Males who kept him from his pride
Kruger males even now, still doesn't show themselfs in northern Mala Mala where Torchwood male used to spent his time with his sisters. Torchwood male wasn't preasured out by other males.
I did not compared Torchwood to Birmingham, just to other males in general.
Regarding BYM I would not say he had particularly harash life circumstances. It was purely his decision of sticking with natal pride which put him in the danger from Ross males. He could have just go into nomadic life as great most of other males in such circumstances do.
I guess I am theo be responsible for starting the "odds" conversation. What I meant was that Torchwood came along a long way rather quickly and all of a sudden, with him being sole brother in his natal pride, tagging along parts of it, fragemented due to Kruger males takeover and seemingly could not run into a potantial colition buddy for ages, so that him suddenly appearing in Timbavati and getting along BYM was a pleasant surprise, as till then he did not improve his situation one bit for so long that we could almost count on him being smewhere close to Sabi Sands/Mala mala - Kruger border alone or temporarily with females of his natal pride. And now he flourished. If we compare him half a year ago and now, he is completely different individual in a completely different situation
BYM is completely different, as his attitude towards takeover in his pride ended up being quite different and the injury, his main and longlasting issue, was kind of selfinflicted. At one point it looked like he will become part of Ross males coalition even, there is a lot of atypical things on his journey. Interesting point was when he sneaked up on the back then 4 Tintswalos on a kill, probably not unlike Torchwood on his initially, and ultimately decided not to approach them and left wihout being noticed. The only thing they share with Torchwood dynamics wise is that he also did not have a brother or more in his litter to stay with unlike for exmaple the Tintswalos, which for sure got it easy. Besides the yonger males including the white one growing up potentially joining him one day which haven't materialized and likely never will.
(11-21-2021, 07:35 PM)Slayerd Wrote: The very pretty Kambula/Ntsevu Male #6. The youngest. He is slightly younger than the recently lone Tsalala lioness by 2 or 3 months.
Credit : Jason wildlife
He's really similar with Nhenha. I noticed it a first glance. What a gorgeous boy.
(11-20-2021, 11:45 PM)RookiePundit Wrote: I guess I am theo be responsible for starting the "odds" conversation. What I meant was that Torchwood came along a long way rather quickly and all of a sudden, with him being sole brother in his natal pride, tagging along parts of it, fragemented due to Kruger males takeover and seemingly could not run into a potantial colition buddy for ages, so that him suddenly appearing in Timbavati and getting along BYM was a pleasant surprise, as till then he did not improve his situation one bit for so long that we could almost count on him being smewhere close to Sabi Sands/Mala mala - Kruger border alone or temporarily with females of his natal pride. And now he flourished. If we compare him half a year ago and now, he is completely different individual in a completely different situation
BYM is completely different, as his attitude towards takeover in his pride ended up being quite different and the injury, his main and longlasting issue, was kind of selfinflicted. At one point it looked like he will become part of Ross males coalition even, there is a lot of atypical things on his journey. Interesting point was when he sneaked up on the back then 4 Tintswalos on a kill, probably not unlike Torchwood on his initially, and ultimately decided not to approach them and left wihout being noticed. The only thing they share with Torchwood dynamics wise is that he also did not have a brother or more in his litter to stay with unlike for exmaple the Tintswalos, which for sure got it easy. Besides the yonger males including the white one growing up potentially joining him one day which haven't materialized and likely never will.
I thought it was the young Mbiri males he snuck up on? It initially caused me some confusion when I first heard it in the video, as I thought they were saying Scar and Shaka, which those males clearly were not them.
(11-20-2021, 11:45 PM)RookiePundit Wrote: I guess I am theo be responsible for starting the "odds" conversation. What I meant was that Torchwood came along a long way rather quickly and all of a sudden, with him being sole brother in his natal pride, tagging along parts of it, fragemented due to Kruger males takeover and seemingly could not run into a potantial colition buddy for ages, so that him suddenly appearing in Timbavati and getting along BYM was a pleasant surprise, as till then he did not improve his situation one bit for so long that we could almost count on him being smewhere close to Sabi Sands/Mala mala - Kruger border alone or temporarily with females of his natal pride. And now he flourished. If we compare him half a year ago and now, he is completely different individual in a completely different situation
BYM is completely different, as his attitude towards takeover in his pride ended up being quite different and the injury, his main and longlasting issue, was kind of selfinflicted. At one point it looked like he will become part of Ross males coalition even, there is a lot of atypical things on his journey. Interesting point was when he sneaked up on the back then 4 Tintswalos on a kill, probably not unlike Torchwood on his initially, and ultimately decided not to approach them and left wihout being noticed. The only thing they share with Torchwood dynamics wise is that he also did not have a brother or more in his litter to stay with unlike for exmaple the Tintswalos, which for sure got it easy. Besides the yonger males including the white one growing up potentially joining him one day which haven't materialized and likely never will.
I thought it was the young Mbiri males he snuck up on? It initially caused me some confusion when I first heard it in the video, as I thought they were saying Scar and Shaka, which those males clearly were not them.
Young males from the Mbiri pride, later known as Tintswalos (one of them is originally from Nharu pride though).
Birmingham Coalition Male Lineage
