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Animal Strength Feats
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  (01-05-2019, 04:10 PM)Panther Wrote:(01-05-2019, 03:49 PM)Shadow Wrote: I criticize all myths because I am curious to see, what can be found and if I am missing something.This is actually not fitting to you, after I found how you reacted in both "king of bears..." Thread and my own thread. I have to check your sources. But tiger carrying a horse or 700 kg water buffalo up a steep hill....  When I see it, I believe it. Or if multiple well known and respected people confirm it. All these most amazing stories about all animals have something in common. No-one has ever seen anything even closely similar when there have been more people around, I mean biologists etc. Many internet forums are full of made up stories and referring to unreliable sources. So I don´t take anything for granted if it sounds "too good to be true".
....up a steep hill. Hmmm?
700 kilograms is equal to 1,543.24 pounds (avoirdupois) (01-05-2019, 04:25 PM)Shadow Wrote: I have to check your sources. But tiger carrying a horse or 700 kg water buffalo up a steep hill.... Sure! All those sources are reliable. Take your own time, but don't come up with theories based on your own assumptions. But with a better refute of your own. Quote:No-one has ever seen anything even closely similar when there have been more people around, I mean biologists etc. Many internet forums are full of made up stories and referring to unreliable sources. So I don´t take anything for granted if it sounds "too good to be true". How do you think they wrote those without being witnessed. And your logic is a bit more speculative. I mean how on earth your think people roam around jungle where tigers are active. Biologists, hunters and zoologists are exceptional, but no common people has no desire to go there and be witness for a rare incident in a dangerous dense jungle... 
@Shadow :
About #80: I report: "I have to check your sources. But tiger carrying a horse or 700 kg water buffalo up a steep hill.... When I see it, I believe it. Or if multiple well known and respected people confirm it. All these most amazing stories about all animals have something in common. No-one has ever seen anything even closely similar when there have been more people around, I mean biologists etc. Many internet forums are full of made up stories and referring to unreliable sources. So I don´t take anything for granted if it sounds "too good to be true". "I don't want to quibble over details but a tiger doesn't carry an horse, he drags it ! A tiger would carry an horse if the horse's feet didn' t touch the ground, and that, that is impossible given that the dimensions of the tiger and horse... I tell off too a sentence of a quoted text "It is estimated that a full grown tiger hunts a total of 3000-4000 kg of prey per year (second full paragraph of the second text at #78). I'm not making this up... But 4000 kg during 52 weeks of the year (a prey per week, that's reasonable isn't ?), it's a match to less than 80 kg per week (76,9 kg in fact). I'm really flabbergasted ! These facts aren' t serious at all, a little bit of arithmetic to see clearly that's a crap... Except for some groupi and suprematist persons. Sorry to tell that but we have to think a little bit before going to believe all what we read !
At least some of your information is also from Corbett and some might think him as reliable source, I am not at all convinced about him. So different kind of stories from him compared to others. And also when looking videos available, nothing even close to what Corbett claims.
Difference when talking about gorillas and tigers for instance is, that about gorillas we have very little footage, where we could see gorillas doing something really demanding what comes to limits of their strength. So it is very difficult to make conclusions. About tigers then again we have several videos, where they drag carcasses, and in those videos, where carcasses are bigger ones, we also see clearly effort. Not easy dragging just like that indicating, that tiger would be able to drag something heavy uphill in rough terrain. So there is big contradiction between some of the most amazing stories and what anyone can see when looking some videos. That of course undermines credibility of some stories. Could tiger drag something relatively big for 500 meters... I think that it can if enough time and terrain is suitable (not too much friction and/or rough terrain). I mean, looking at these videos: Quite hard to imagine that tiger dragging even 300 kg animal uphill for a long distance. So 700 kg bull and adult male, would it be so different? Then here, easier terrain and reasonable sized prey: This kind of prey could be for sure dragged a long distance in time. So when some writes about cow or horse, of course there are smaller cows and horses. That could explain some stories which sounds too good to be true when I look for instance cows in Finland (not small ones). Here is one more with tiger and uphill. Everyone can see sizes of these animals and is it an easy task. Then again here is a lion and even terrain and quite big prey. This is maybe the most impressive footage, what I have seen about dragging what comes to lions and tigers. So can lions and tigers drag even quite big prey for some distance? For sure. Question is, how much time and effort it takes. But none of these animals were close to weight like 1000 kg, that buffalo with lion might have been about 450-550 kg or something like that. If someone has footage about something bigger, it would be nice to see. 
Here is an instagram video of a male lion dragging an eland bull, with surprising ease. Phenomenal strength probably around 500-600 kg
https://www.instagram.com/p/BsMeZx6hoJy/...7iaef2nxdo (01-05-2019, 07:15 PM)Pantherinae Wrote: Here is an instagram video of a male lion dragging an eland bull, with surprising ease. Phenomenal strength probably around 500-600 kg And not even dragging backwords that big prey! That is something and showing how strong necks big cats have. With time that lion might drag that eland quite long distance. First like that and when more exhausted still some distance dragging backwords. 
@Shadow Corbett was the one who studied tigers to the extent that few people can study them that way. He is also one of the respectable people whom you said you will believe. You can ask experts who studied tigers extensively in the indian wilderness. All of them agree that tigers have phenomenal strength. And also agree to the above mentioned incidents. Malaysian gaurs, as you can see in wikipedia page of gaur, average 1-1.3 tons. So exceptional specimens do reach 2 tons or even more. And jungle men can drag 150kgs without much difficulty. 13 jungle men could not move it. That itself makes the weight to atleast 1950kgs. Think practical you should get realistic figures and feats done by tigers. It is good that you don't believe unless you see them. But don't try to prove them wrong. Myths are made by humans for a reason. Only a lifeless man with no responsibilities will create or exaggerate feats not done by tigers. It is rare for humans to have such hardcore attachments and unreal imaginations for these wild beasts.
Quote:At least some of your information is also from Corbett and some might think him as reliable source, I am not at all convinced about him. So different kind of stories from him compared to others. And also when looking videos available, nothing even close to what Corbett claims. You have yet to prove your claim of your friend pulling 400kgs moose carcass. And I'm for sure as hell say that you either cherry picking videos to prove your case or haven't watched this video of a tiger dragging large adult Gaur through rocks. https://youtu.be/hVxI-4-4_cQ And this one of tigress dragging adult buffalo carcass. https://youtu.be/fktByKqW92Y Apart from that, you have yet to prove your case of your friend dragging 400kgs carcass for 5 metres. You're mistaken about Corbett account with other account. So your claim of it being speculative is backed up by nothing! But you (as usual) saying the same old "I'm not convinced"? Of course you'll never convinced with things that are opposing your claims. You're a sniper of bear fans. I give you that. Hey that's not a insult, that's a reward. Of what you're deserved to be! Quote:Difference when talking about gorillas and tigers for instance is, that about gorillas we have very little footage, where we could see gorillas doing something really demanding what comes to limits of their strength. So it is very difficult to make conclusions. Anyone who studied about these animals knows gorillas aren't that strong as they claimed to be and gorilla fans on YouTube are delusional. That's not even a case. The problem is, you have a tendency to criticize about a animal prowess, what you heard or read someone claiming it above your beloved brown bears. There's no contradiction. None of the sources said tiger dragged "easily". You're just mistaken. The Corbett account of "13 men can't be able to drag..." Account haven't given the size of the gaur. So there's basically no contradiction. Quote:Could tiger drag something relatively big for 500 meters... I think that it can if enough time and terrain is suitable (not too much friction and/or rough terrain).This tigress is suffering with sloppy terrain is evident! So try again! Quote:Then here, easier terrain and reasonable sized prey:This is a tigress. So, what would be the weight of the cow it dragging? It is evident that the tiger dragging it without an effort! So what is your point? Quote:Here is one more with tiger and uphill. Everyone can see sizes of these animals and is it an easy task.Sorry, it's a juvenile. I mean, just look at it's narrow skull. It's clear as hell, that's not a adult tiger. Quote:Then again here is a lion and even terrain and quite big prey. This is maybe the most impressive footage, what I have seen about dragging what comes to lions and tigers. So can lions and tigers drag even quite big prey for some distance? For sure. Question is, how much time and effort it takes. But none of these animals were close to weight like 1000 kg, that buffalo with lion might have been about 450-550 kg or something like that.Let me ask you one question @Shadow! What do you think, this expert witness would be? https://youtu.be/P9652D2f-HM True or false? 
A young Yuvraj pulling a freshly killed Gaur Cow, he eventually pulled it under the bridge.
Raja not budging an inch when he has throat grip was always impressive to me as well. (01-05-2019, 10:24 PM)parvez Wrote: @Shadow Corbett was the one who studied tigers to the extent that few people can study them that way. He is also one of the respectable people whom you said you will believe. You can ask experts who studied tigers extensively in the indian wilderness. All of them agree that tigers have phenomenal strength. And also agree to the above mentioned incidents. Malaysian gaurs, as you can see in wikipedia page of gaur, average 1-1.3 tons. So exceptional specimens do reach 2 tons or even more. And jungle men can drag 150kgs without much difficulty. 13 jungle men could not move it. That itself makes the weight to atleast 1950kgs. Think practical you should get realistic figures and feats done by tigers. It is good that you don't believe unless you see them. But don't try to prove them wrong. Myths are made by humans for a reason. Only a lifeless man with no responsibilities will create or exaggerate feats not done by tigers. It is rare for humans to have such hardcore attachments and unreal imaginations for these wild beasts. Well, I told why I don´t believe Corbett. And I don´t until I see something even closely matching something he claims. But it is possible, that he have exaggerated size and weights of some animals he mention. For instance if tiger would drag something 4 miles, that for sure is something small. 2 miles uphill... fairy tale if talking about big animal. I mean really, looking those videos, where real tigers drag or try to drag carcasses against stories about many times bigger carcasses and tigers dragging them easily.... I really choose to believe my own eyes. I don´t think, that tigers would have lost 70% of their strength in last century or so. I have thought one possibility, if those 13 men were some smaller men, weighing 50-60 kg and no ropes to use, maybe that could explain, that they couldn´t move that carcass. 770 gaur and 15 meters wouldn´t be impossible for a tiger if big male, I think. But 2 tons.... no. As I said, I have never seen tiger moving anything that big and in videos tigers struggle with much much smaller animals. And 1+1 is still 2, no matter what Corbett say :) Have you read Tiger! Tale of Indian tiger by Kailash Sankhala and his criticism? (01-05-2019, 10:24 PM)parvez Wrote: @Shadow Corbett was the one who studied tigers to the extent that few people can study them that way. He is also one of the respectable people whom you said you will believe. You can ask experts who studied tigers extensively in the indian wilderness. All of them agree that tigers have phenomenal strength. And also agree to the above mentioned incidents. Malaysian gaurs, as you can see in wikipedia page of gaur, average 1-1.3 tons. So exceptional specimens do reach 2 tons or even more. And jungle men can drag 150kgs without much difficulty. 13 jungle men could not move it. That itself makes the weight to atleast 1950kgs. Think practical you should get realistic figures and feats done by tigers. It is good that you don't believe unless you see them. But don't try to prove them wrong. Myths are made by humans for a reason. Only a lifeless man with no responsibilities will create or exaggerate feats not done by tigers. It is rare for humans to have such hardcore attachments and unreal imaginations for these wild beasts. There's basically no way to stop this guy. Trust me! I've met him firstly on YouTube comments section. It's happened 500 replies man! No matter what other people telling him, he continues his lengthy essays as far as until you got bore and leave this topic. There's no perfect reasoning and nothing but same old "I'm not convinced"! |
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