Birmingham Coalition Male Lineage

[Ngonya]

(04-18-2024, 12:14 AM)Robot00 Wrote: Made me wish the two southern kam boys stayed and conquer s.s. with their four brothers like mapogos did.

Even if they were 6, i doubt Kambulas would be anywhere near as agressive as Mapogo. At least as 6 they could already be territorial/pride males, especially because those who left to Kruger certainly have more attitude than their Sabi Sand's younger brothers.

And as Ndona says, theres no need for another Mapogo Coalition in Sabi Sand, nowhere actually. Reply

[RookiePundit]

I concur, Mapogos were an overall failure, left the local population in worse place than it was when they took over. Eliminating (genetic) competition is one thing, not having much to show for progeny wise means it was for nothing. The other big coalitions that followed did much better in that regard (ofc inevitably in different circumstances, smaller populations have more for growth etc.). Wasted potential. Just brought attention to the local lion dynamics and fanboyism, for better or worse. Reply

[Mapokser]

@BA0701 I couldn't found the original post by Botha, but a few days ago a guy claimed Botha went to his page and had an argument with him, he made a post copying what Botha supposedly said. It looks reliable and it got shared by other reliable pages. I also saw that Botha is currently active on FB.

According to this person, Botha, furious about being accused of having a hand ln the killing of the Sand River pride, said that neither him nor his men had anything to do with it and the Minister of Environment was the one to give the order and send their men to do the job. He said the only weapon he had with him was a darting one.

When asked about Rasta he didn't reply.

When asked about the 100 lions thing, he said it was simply a fact and explains that he was by far the person who had spent the most time with the Mapogo and would in one week spend more time with them than most rangers did in their entire career.

He explains that guides and rangers could only traverse on their lodges' territories and traverse areas, and could only spend up to 30 minutes in a single sighting before having to give a chance to another guide to show that sighting to their guests because there were only 2-3 vehicles available by lodge.

He says that he, however, as head of the anti-poaching team, could traverse the entire Sabi Sands and follow the Mapogo everywhere, spending as much time with them as he wanted, and would spend hours and hours with them daily.

I always thought the 100 lions thing was nonsense, but Idube records over 60 lions in the Western Sector and Singita in 2006, of which only 10 survived the Mapogo ( 5 Ximhungwe, 2 Sand River, 2 Othawa and Nhlanguleni ).

Londolozi, IIIRC, reports over 20 lions killed by Mapogo, including an entire pride that went extinct, as well as the entire Tsalala pride but the 3 females and Solo.

The Nkuhuma was a super pride back then and was also decimated. The Styx and Sparta prides were also harassed for years by the Mapogos.

I don't know if they directly killed 100 lions, but at this point I think it's very likely over 100 lions were either killed by them or died due to their pressure, the vast majority cubs, obviously. Reply

[BA0701]

(04-18-2024, 05:53 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @BA0701 I couldn't found the original post by Botha, but a few days ago a guy claimed Botha went to his page and had an argument with him, he made a post copying what Botha supposedly said. It looks reliable and it got shared by other reliable pages. I also saw that Botha is currently active on FB.

According to this person, Botha, furious about being accused of having a hand ln the killing of the Sand River pride, said that neither him nor his men had anything to do with it and the Minister of Environment was the one to give the order and send their men to do the job. He said the only weapon he had with him was a darting one.

When asked about Rasta he didn't reply.

When asked about the 100 lions thing, he said it was simply a fact and explains that he was by far the person who had spent the most time with the Mapogo and would in one week spend more time with them than most rangers did in their entire career.

He explains that guides and rangers could only traverse on their lodges' territories and traverse areas, and could only spend up to 30 minutes in a single sighting before having to give a chance to another guide to show that sighting to their guests because there were only 2-3 vehicles available by lodge.

He says that he, however, as head of the anti-poaching team, could traverse the entire Sabi Sands and follow the Mapogo everywhere, spending as much time with them as he wanted, and would spend hours and hours with them daily.

I always thought the 100 lions thing was nonsense, but Idube records over 60 lions in the Western Sector and Singita in 2006, of which only 10 survived the Mapogo ( 5 Ximhungwe, 2 Sand River, 2 Othawa and Nhlanguleni ).

Londolozi, IIIRC, reports over 20 lions killed by Mapogo, including an entire pride that went extinct, as well as the entire Tsalala pride but the 3 females and Solo.

The Nkuhuma was a super pride back then and was also decimated. The Styx and Sparta prides were also harassed for years by the Mapogos.

I don't know if they directly killed 100 lions, but at this point I think it's very likely over 100 lions were either killed by them or died due to their pressure, the vast majority cubs, obviously.

@Mapokser I will respond to this in the Mapogo thread, as this may get a little long, and is OT in this thread. Reply