Asian Wild Water-Buffalo (Bubalus arnee)

[Jimmy]

(01-22-2018, 02:12 PM)parvez Wrote: That's good to hear @Jimmy . There are considerable number of wild buffaloes in Nepal and hopefully not inbred. And even in kaziranga there is lot of scope for wild buffalo because they are huge and can't necessarily mate with smaller females as I heard of a recent death of a female rhino due to huge size of male rhino in captivity. But the problem of inbreeding needs to be solved in the future for the good of this animal. Btw which do you think is stronger pound for pound water buffalo or gaur?

At this moment and to be honest i dont really care if they are crossbred-if they are atlest 90% wild it's fine for me. IUCN says it's possible there are no pure buffaloes left in the wild. And in some countries even domestic ones are almost pure wild so it's pretty complicated. Imagine the logistics trying to separate each crossbred ones with pure ones-it's next to impossible. But general opinion i get is that wild ones will out-compete domestic ones in a strict protected reserve provided the land is not overwhelmed by domestic herds outnumbering the wildlife, in that case it will be total chaos. But i now imagine this species at an ecosystem level, grassland is never the same without this major species. imagine what the wetlands, floodplain dynamics will be without it and rhinos etc. regarding future the two population in central India and Nepal maybe cross bred for the diversity and as they are from the same subspecies. but i dont' know if it's possible wild water buffaloes aren't deemed charismatic enough and doesn't draw huge funding i am afraid. but lets hope for the best.
The last one, i really think wild water buffaloes are pound for pound the strongest, dont know exactly why but taking an example of domestic buffalo and a domestic cattle, people use buffalo as tractors for plowing their field in the case cattle fails to do it. I have also seen buffaloes move so easily while cattle struggle to move. So, in this very practical case, buffaloes are taken as a more powerful beast. Thats my view. people often fail to see how thick buffaloe's limbs are, they are massive.

*This image is copyright of its original author

here is a nepali documentary on translocation of wild buffaloes, i dont think it's understandable but some juveniles were caught with ropes on foot, pretty unusual. Skip the first 3:3o minute... the real chase starts from 15:30

another documentary on Nepal's buffaloes, very big herd at 13:15

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[parvez]

Thanks @Roflcopters and @Jimmy thanks for the opinions. But speaking technique wise, I think gaur has perfectly build skeletal structure and are agile as mentioned in the article.
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/energy-...613694.ece
The article is perfect except for the fact they did not include hippos in the biggest animal list that is the only drawback there. Otherwise it is an exceptional daily for quality information. But, yes, water buffalo's legs are thick and they appear stout and stockier than gaurs. But gaurs often show off more muscles than water buffaloes but the later have deeper musculature. The article also says it beats water buffalo in terms of brute strength but i dont think it is pound for pound it is in general. That is why i was confused. They may be right their horns are perfectly shaped, not too long like water buffalo that uses slashing technique rather than the gaur's which pierce their horns into their predators. Slashing is a energy consuming process while piercing inflicts more damage. Here you may be right. As it has more muscles it dares to use slashing technique with their horns otherwise they will fail miserably with the gaur. Gaurs for sure are more agile than water buffalo they climb 6 feet fences easily. Reply

[brotherbear]

It is posted, somewhere on this site, that water buffaloes do better than gaur against tigers. I will also add, the biggest and strongest are not always the better survivors. The grizzly survived when the giant cave bears and giant short-faced bears perished. Also, in N. America, it was the smaller bison species that survived. If the water buffaloes are doing better than the gaur in numbers, it very likely has nothing to do with who is the biggest and strongest. There are many variables. Reply

[parvez]

Ofcourse, the strongest are not the survivors. The smarter which evolve as per changes in the environment may be the survivors. But what are you trying to say man i cannot understand. Based on numbers, no one said which one is stronger. Reply

[Jimmy]

(01-22-2018, 06:22 PM)parvez Wrote: Thanks @Roflcopters and @Jimmy thanks for the opinions. But speaking technique wise, I think gaur has perfectly build skeletal structure and are agile as mentioned in the article.
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/energy-...613694.ece
The article is perfect except for the fact they did not include hippos in the biggest animal list that is the only drawback there. Otherwise it is an exceptional daily for quality information. But, yes, water buffalo's legs are thick and they appear stout and stockier than gaurs. But gaurs often show off more muscles than water buffaloes but the later have deeper musculature. The article also says it beats water buffalo in terms of brute strength but i dont think it is pound for pound it is in general. That is why i was confused. They may be right their horns are perfectly shaped, not too long like water buffalo that uses slashing technique rather than the gaur's which pierce their horns into their predators. Slashing is a energy consuming process while piercing inflicts more damage. Here you may be right. As it has more muscles it dares to use slashing technique with their horns otherwise they will fail miserably with the gaur. Gaurs for sure are more agile than water buffalo they climb 6 feet fences easily.

I tend to agree that gaurs are remarkably agile animals, buffaloes are not known for any athletic feats, they are not big jumpers either. Gaurs are light on their feet and buffaloes are heavy on their feet that is it. But as for who is strong i go with buffalo. Simple body design, very proportionate body from nose to tail, equal power distribution through out, there is no soft spot so as to speak. i am quoting the site you provided "Gaur beats the wild water buffalo, American Bison, European Bison and even the African Cape buffalo hallow in terms of skeletal structure and brute strength". i dont know about this, maybe in general cuz gaurs are considered bigger than all, so it has more strength. skeletal wise i say gaurs skeleton is impressive due to the fact that it has huge spine sticking out and looks formidable and menacing. Buffaloes as i said has a proportionate built it's front is not greatly at odds with it's back side, looks pretty simple in design. skull wise gaurs have wide skull, buffaloes are leaner and longer but does it mean it's skeletal structure would be weak i tend to think it's only about different designs rather than durability. maybe there are some other people here who might know specifically about bones , density and so on. Have you also considered this- gaurs are taller and longer animal while buffaloes are shorter but the weigh is pretty even... Reply

[brotherbear]

(01-22-2018, 07:10 PM)parvez Wrote: Ofcourse, the strongest are not the survivors. The smarter which evolve as per changes in the environment may be the survivors. But what are you trying to say man i cannot understand. Based on numbers, no one said which one is stronger.

Your words: But gaurs often show off more muscles than water buffaloes but the later have deeper musculature. The article also says it beats water buffalo in terms of brute strength but I don't think it is pound for pound it is in general.  
My words: What has size and musculature have to do with it? Reply

[parvez]

(01-22-2018, 07:23 PM)brotherbear Wrote:

(01-22-2018, 07:10 PM)parvez Wrote: Ofcourse, the strongest are not the survivors. The smarter which evolve as per changes in the environment may be the survivors. But what are you trying to say man i cannot understand. Based on numbers, no one said which one is stronger.

Your words: But gaurs often show off more muscles than water buffaloes but the later have deeper musculature. The article also says it beats water buffalo in terms of brute strength but I don't think it is pound for pound it is in general.  
My words: What has size and musculature have to do with it?

Of course it has nothing to do. Then why do people compare weights and musculature of big cats. The same purpose here too. That is natural comparing them creates lot of enthusiastic points and increases our enthusiasm towards them. But this is the last time i will compare them as i have drawn my conclusion. Now let us put our focus on their conservation. Happy? lol Reply

[parvez]

(01-22-2018, 07:23 PM)Jimmy Wrote:

(01-22-2018, 06:22 PM)parvez Wrote: Thanks @Roflcopters and @Jimmy thanks for the opinions. But speaking technique wise, I think gaur has perfectly build skeletal structure and are agile as mentioned in the article.
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/energy-...613694.ece
The article is perfect except for the fact they did not include hippos in the biggest animal list that is the only drawback there. Otherwise it is an exceptional daily for quality information. But, yes, water buffalo's legs are thick and they appear stout and stockier than gaurs. But gaurs often show off more muscles than water buffaloes but the later have deeper musculature. The article also says it beats water buffalo in terms of brute strength but i dont think it is pound for pound it is in general. That is why i was confused. They may be right their horns are perfectly shaped, not too long like water buffalo that uses slashing technique rather than the gaur's which pierce their horns into their predators. Slashing is a energy consuming process while piercing inflicts more damage. Here you may be right. As it has more muscles it dares to use slashing technique with their horns otherwise they will fail miserably with the gaur. Gaurs for sure are more agile than water buffalo they climb 6 feet fences easily.

I tend to agree that gaurs are remarkably agile animals, buffaloes are not known for any athletic feats, they are not big jumpers either. Gaurs are light on their feet and buffaloes are heavy on their feet that is it. But as for who is strong i go with buffalo. Simple body design, very proportionate body from nose to tail, equal power distribution through out, there is no soft spot so as to speak. i am quoting the site you provided "Gaur beats the wild water buffalo, American Bison, European Bison and even the African Cape buffalo hallow in terms of skeletal structure and brute strength". i dont know about this, maybe in general cuz gaurs are considered bigger than all, so it has more strength. skeletal wise i say gaurs skeleton is impressive due to the fact that it has huge spine sticking out and looks formidable and menacing. Buffaloes as i said has a proportionate built it's front is not greatly at odds with it's back side, looks pretty simple in design. skull wise gaurs have wide skull, buffaloes are leaner and longer but does it mean it's skeletal structure would be weak i tend to think it's only about different designs rather than durability. maybe there are some other people here who might know specifically about bones , density and so on. Have you also considered this- gaurs are taller and longer animal while buffaloes are shorter but the weigh is pretty even...

Nope i considered gaurs are taller and not as longer. But water buffalo from assam seem to be the longer specimens as per my observation. Reply

[Pckts]

(01-22-2018, 07:23 PM)Jimmy Wrote:

(01-22-2018, 06:22 PM)parvez Wrote: Thanks @Roflcopters and @Jimmy thanks for the opinions. But speaking technique wise, I think gaur has perfectly build skeletal structure and are agile as mentioned in the article.
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/energy-...613694.ece
The article is perfect except for the fact they did not include hippos in the biggest animal list that is the only drawback there. Otherwise it is an exceptional daily for quality information. But, yes, water buffalo's legs are thick and they appear stout and stockier than gaurs. But gaurs often show off more muscles than water buffaloes but the later have deeper musculature. The article also says it beats water buffalo in terms of brute strength but i dont think it is pound for pound it is in general. That is why i was confused. They may be right their horns are perfectly shaped, not too long like water buffalo that uses slashing technique rather than the gaur's which pierce their horns into their predators. Slashing is a energy consuming process while piercing inflicts more damage. Here you may be right. As it has more muscles it dares to use slashing technique with their horns otherwise they will fail miserably with the gaur. Gaurs for sure are more agile than water buffalo they climb 6 feet fences easily.

I tend to agree that gaurs are remarkably agile animals, buffaloes are not known for any athletic feats, they are not big jumpers either. Gaurs are light on their feet and buffaloes are heavy on their feet that is it. But as for who is strong i go with buffalo. Simple body design, very proportionate body from nose to tail, equal power distribution through out, there is no soft spot so as to speak. i am quoting the site you provided "Gaur beats the wild water buffalo, American Bison, European Bison and even the African Cape buffalo hallow in terms of skeletal structure and brute strength". i dont know about this, maybe in general cuz gaurs are considered bigger than all, so it has more strength. skeletal wise i say gaurs skeleton is impressive due to the fact that it has huge spine sticking out and looks formidable and menacing. Buffaloes as i said has a proportionate built it's front is not greatly at odds with it's back side, looks pretty simple in design. skull wise gaurs have wide skull, buffaloes are leaner and longer but does it mean it's skeletal structure would be weak i tend to think it's only about different designs rather than durability. maybe there are some other people here who might know specifically about bones , density and so on. Have you also considered this- gaurs are taller and longer animal while buffaloes are shorter but the weigh is pretty even...

I've only seen Gaur and Cape buffalo in person, comparing the two and picking a stronger animal is tough. Average sized animals are close, carry their weight a little differently but both are strong looking creatures, when comparing the largest individuals I saw of each, the Gaur takes it. They are gigantic, their body composition may not be quite as round 'stocky" as the cape but its very close, the Gaur being a taller animal with a huge hump distracts from their actual mass until you see them up close. But I'll say it again, I have seen large male Lions and Tigers and when I compare them to the Large Cape and Gaur I have seen, I can't believe they go after them. It's quite impressive because they are completely outmatched in terms of size. 

This was one of the largest Gaurs I saw, definitely the clearest, and he is huge.

*This image is copyright of its original author

This was the largest Cape I saw

*This image is copyright of its original author

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[Jimmy]

Here is the photo of the wild water buffalo from manas, i posted and here is the pic of gaur by @Pckts tried to make it as accurate as i thought these two would compare side by side and i also considered the buffalo is slightly at an angle and gaur's body is in profile (i did not make any change in proportion, just colour correction and size adjustment)

*This image is copyright of its original author

Thanks for the first -hand input provided by @Pckts ,all statistics say gaur and wild water buffalo to be bigger animal than the cape buffalo so, the real contest is between these two, and @parvez is specially focussed on pound for pound strongest so pls ignore the size difference in the comparision if doing so. Reply

[parvez]

Thanks @Pckts too for your post and @Jimmy for the reply. Reply

[Rishi]

@Jimmy I'd say that's really accurate... & nice editing. Reply

[Jimmy]

(01-23-2018, 01:51 PM)parvez Wrote: Thanks @Pckts too for your post and @Jimmy for the reply.

no problem!!

(01-23-2018, 04:09 PM)Rishi Wrote: @Jimmy I'd say that's really accurate... & nice editing.

Thanks man!! Reply

[Spalea]

IMO. The gaur and the American buffalo, although being the greatest extant bovids on Earth haven't, by far, the most impressive horns. Asiatic and African buffalo have the strongest ones.
Four strong individuals:
Gaur:

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American buffalo:

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Asiatic buffalo:

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African buffalo:

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[Jimmy]

...and this pic remains one of my personal favorites, i Love wild water buffaloes of Manas the most, they look truly wild - Bubalus arnee fulvus!

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a beast from kaziranga...

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small family of cows

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Bubalus arnee arnee! from Udanti reserve, Central India

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from Koshi reserve, Nepal

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another one from koshi,Nepal

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head shot..

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