Bears as Predators ~

[brobear]

(05-22-2018, 07:35 AM)Shir Babr Wrote: I was looking forward to this thread, but to put it mildly, is fanboyish. There are some appreciated and on point contributions, but most pages are filled by those dubious old stories about giant bears who would karate-chop charging bulls à la Masutatsu Oyama movie, pretended as proof of the brown bear prowess as predator. Are you kidding me?

Honestly, how is that different from statements by people from the same period of time or even later claiming that wolves and pumas were bloodthirsty man-eaters, that lions killed prey by breaking their necks with a paw strike, that a lion would jump a 2 meter tall fence carrying a bull in its mouth, a tiger killing a tusker or a wolverine killing a polar bear? Is nonsense!

Funny thing. In the same tales you have these monster bears that can kill any bull with a single paw swipe, whilst at the same time could be safely captured by three men with ropes or be overwhelmed by rats in the same type of events where a 12 kilo terrier would kill a hundred without risk...

In Spain people used to pit their bulls against wild animals, and according to them, the bull was victorious, while in America people claimed that bears were the winners. Isn't it weird? Is almost like people were biased towards their respective national animals... Not to mention how uneducated people were and have always been known for greatly exaggerate animal sizes and feats in a way to satanize them by pretending they're monsters and justify their slaughter, and present themselves as "brave hunters".

The difference is, there are videos of Spanish fighting bulls gutting horses bigger than themselves with a single gore. Unlike wild animals, these kind of bulls were artificially breed for aggression and wont back down even injured. Yet you claim that a brown bear can kill any bull hands down. Is just not realistic.

At this point I'm surprised you haven't claimed that those images of brown bears feeding on beached whales prove that they can capture big cetaceans...

Besides, is it supposed to be astounding that a big bear, protected by a lot of fat, that isn't psychologically inhibited to avoid injuries (that could hamper its abilities and lead it starvation), can displace lighter animals that can't afford such injuries? Is not, if they have an advantage is not because they're "better".

Big brown bears can only develop in northern places were highly nutritious food is plentiful, of easy access, and competition is low, i.e. only where salmon is a keystone species. So let's stop pretending that bears in the Southwest US  were giants.

You even went as far as dismissing someone that brought up sloth bears, when in fact sloth bears are proportionally tougher because they evolved among larger predators and mega herbivores. They're also better armed than browns.

I'm curious about the cognitive dissonance when comparing those old wive's tales about grizzlies to the actual forensic and video evidence. Because in the videos posted here and many others I've watched, we have (mostly) successful predation on calves, piglets and small bears and cubs, attacks on weakened ungulates (like that boar that wasn't even trying to fight back), attempts on swimming (helpless) moose, and I remember a documentary where a grizzly attacked an already tired caribou (caribous aren't big) that had been previously injured by wolves, and the bear had a hard time bringing it down, even suffering a few antler blows, luckily antlers aren't as effective or deadly as bovine horns... even humans that have survived being mauled in the head. In all cases the bears used their (relatively short) canines -as all carnivores- as its main means to do damage. No great efficiency, no masterfully placed bull killing karate chops to be found neither. How telling.

I love brown bears, because they're an amazing polymorphic species, not because I anthropomorphize them as "fighters", neither I'm deluded to declare they're the most "badass" carnivores alive, when in fact, they're among the less carnivore and most mediocre predators in the Order.

And by the way, I'm just pointing out that this thread is mostly comprised of anecdotes unrelated to real bear predation; I don't mean to start one of those dumb and pointless "X vs. Y" discussions. I LOATHE THOSE. That's why I stopped visiting Carnivora forum years ago, there was nothing but fanboys irrationally cheering their favorite team. Just pointing out that the title is misleading and ought to be named "grizzly bear stories". Regards.

THE BEAR - History of a Fallen King - by Michel Pastoureau. 

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