Size comparisons

[Pckts]

(07-14-2019, 12:42 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(07-14-2019, 12:38 AM)Luipaard Wrote:

(07-14-2019, 12:01 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(07-13-2019, 11:24 PM)Luipaard Wrote:

(07-13-2019, 10:43 PM)Pckts Wrote: But overall I think the information provided has pretty much proven what I was saying.  Hopefully now we can move past that and start to appreciate these amazing Jaguars for what they are and that is a very unique species. Just like Lions in Ngorongoro Crater and Okavango Delta or Tigers in Kaziranga and Terai arc or Leopards in certain parts of Africa and Asia to name a few.

I agree.

Which is why I find Central African leopards so fascinating; they're the equivalent of Pantanal jaguars in my opinion.

Heh, it was coming, wasn´t it? But yes, you have some good points why to think so, but it has seemed to be less clear overall situation than it is, when we compare for instance Pantanal jaguars to some other population if we exclude Llanos. Have you got yet anything more from that person... was the name Jo, from panthera.org? it would be really interesting if she has something more to say, you got one reply from her in the past, wasn´t it so?

Yes, I got in touch with her thanks to the mods of Zooniverse. I could PM her again but I'm gonna have to ask something serious then.

Didn´t she tell, that she would discuss with others about sizes of rainforest leopards with others, colleagues? It would be interesting to hear if they have had discussions and what kind of estimations they have compared to other leopard populations. Maybe we wouldn´t get 100% certainty, but thoughts of biologists and zoologists are always interesting.

I've spoken to her and another I believe, I cant find them in my emails atm, but neither has much experience outside of the Congo basin. I even spoke with the gentleman who set up the mirror traps and he isn't aware of measurements or info from other african leopards nor has he been involved in any weight or captures, in fact I'm not sure exactly what experience he has outside of being a photographer.
We have to be careful with a lot of these researchers, make sure their experience is relevant to the discussion at hand.
It's why using hunters sometimes is a better option when data is limited because they go where the largest cats are unfortunately but they know via experience. But even they should be taken with a grain of salt as we all know.

Let's just look at the criteria required before we got to an acceptable conclusion on Pantanal Jags.
Needed first hand accounts, needed email confirmation from people who've seen and researched Jags from Los llanos and pantanal then needed all weights to be verified.

Let's compare it to Leopards...
Weights from the Congo basin showing normal range....not enough proof
Camera trap photos from a mirror.... proof
Skull measurements = largest leopards
Skull measurements equal to the largest skulls showing cats under 100kg=not enough
Researchers with no experience in weighing cats from anywhere, let alone Congo=conclusive
Hunters with weights and first hand measures from all over Africa including Central=Not enough
Pug Mark's measurements equal to other parts of Africa=not proof
Etc.


If we're to play this game then let's play by the same rules, if not let's make sure to acknowledge that these are estimates and not proven nor should any conclusive statements be made until the criteria we've set forth is reached. Reply