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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - B - THE LION (Panthera leo)

Finland Shadow Offline
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( This post was last modified: 10-25-2018, 07:41 PM by Shadow )

(10-25-2018, 06:12 AM)GuateGojira Wrote: @Shadow, I think that a few points must be clarified before to finish this conversation.

1. I am aware that the method of weighing and the machine itself are things that are normally ignored in these debates. Also if there is any variation caused by the machine itself, loss of blood or whatever other issue is normally ignored by the common poster. However, normally the scientific papers only quote the figures obtained and very rarely mention other details. If we follow the published documents of this particular weight, there are no details of this, so the figure of 272 kg is reliable but I will not especulate anything more about it.

2. About the emails, like I said before, it depends of the posters that showed them, not of Dr Kock. We must be honest, we don't know if the people actually talked with the expert or not. Now, there is also another thing that we must take in count, and is that maybe Dr Kock was also just answering what he tought that the person wanted to believe, and he was not trying to add any relevant information in the emails. But again, this is just especulation.

3. The old debates in AVA forum and those that still happen in Carnivora forum still show the type of behaviour that you described in your post. Hopefully here in Wildfact.com we don't follow (or at least we tried) that line and we only try to found the truth behind the myth. Like you say, luckily you haven't seen those debates, that although in some cases it produced good information, in others it was only a "party" of insults and nonesences.

4. At this point, the record of the 272 kg lion is legit and can be used and the reputation of Dr Kock is not in the table anymore. It is a good idea to contact him and clarify the issue, but I think that any result will be irrelevant in this moment.

5. I put this answer only because the poster @Smilodon-Rex asked a question, I am not interested in continue to debate about this particular weight, I see no point at this particular moment.
Well,

1. Yes, some things are good to ignore, because there would be endless swamps. To me that 272 kg is as reliable as any weighing on the field. Approximate weight of an animal. 

2. Yes, we don´t know, but there were two email addresses and dr. Kock is working in public office. So if there is doubt about that kind of issue, it is quite easy to check situation. Especially if talking about something, which seems to be exceptional. I have to say, that I would find it odd, that a scientist would endanger his credibility by answering to some specific question what someone wants to hear, not as it is. I find it most probable, that some sloppiness in hurry. But of course, that is my estimation and I can be wrong.

3. Yes, I know that there still are these debates in many places, I just don´t open those sites after seeing what kind of people there are writing :) There are much more convenient ways to find information if some issue is interesting.

4. Dr. Kock seems to be quite reasonable guy as far as I have seen his interviews. If this lion weight would feel in some way impossible, then I would contact him, if for no other reason, just for personal curiosity. But because that weight is "only" telling a story about an exceptional lion, not impossible, I don´t care enough :)

5. No need to continue, that weight wasn´t my point either here. Still time to time it is good to discuss how some information is gathered and then considered. Too many people forget source criticism, logical deduction, importance to check multiple sources (if/when possible) and  common sense with objectivity. Time to time it is good to have different kind of points of views to be discussed about some issues. In some things, like how long a certain bone (found from somewhere) is, there is not too much to discuss, but then again in many things all what we have are opinions and speculation, approximates and best estimations, not absolute truths. So it is interesting to see what kind of reasoning is behind some estimation or opinion :)
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Messages In This Thread
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - B - THE LION (Panthera leo) - Shadow - 10-25-2018, 10:49 AM
Panthera leo in Europe - brotherbear - 04-28-2017, 07:46 PM
RE: Panthera leo in Europe? - Polar - 04-28-2017, 10:24 PM
RE: Panthera leo in Europe? - GrizzlyClaws - 04-29-2017, 01:43 AM
RE: Panthera leo in Europe? - brotherbear - 04-29-2017, 03:01 AM
RE: Panthera leo in Europe? - GrizzlyClaws - 04-29-2017, 03:17 AM
RE: Panthera leo in Europe? - GrizzlyClaws - 04-29-2017, 03:29 AM
RE: Panthera leo in Europe? - brotherbear - 05-20-2017, 04:15 PM
RE: Vintage - Ngala - 01-02-2018, 03:22 PM
Lion Population Numbers - jordi6927 - 04-09-2018, 03:45 PM
RE: Lion Population Numbers - Rishi - 04-09-2018, 05:13 PM



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