ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - B - THE LION (Panthera leo)

[johnny rex]

(09-19-2018, 09:15 AM)GuateGojira Wrote: Quick post:

@johnny rex: That "lionzilla" skull is in fact the extra large lion skull from Boneclones, the greatest length is of 393 mm, smaller than the largest Manchurian tiger skull of 406 mm reported by V. Mazák. 

@Smilodon-Rex: If we take in count the hunting records, the skull of 419 mm from South Africa should be the largest (the record of 432 mm never existed), but not because of the original source (Vaugan Kirby, a hunter that probably measured the skull between uprights like all the hunters of that time), but because the fact that the skull was actually measured by Rowland Ward or his team. Check that this skull is not amoung the "Owner's measurements" which means that it was measured with callipers, like the picture of Mr Ward with a lion skull suggest (he is measuring the zygomatic wide in the picture). Check the image:

*This image is copyright of its original author

There is no reason to dobth that he also used the callipers to measured the total length of the skull with the same instrument, and take in count that using callipers the length of the mandible is not included, which discard the complains of the few posters that doubt on this records. Based on this and in the Rowland Ward's Records of Big Game book, in its 5th edition (1914), the longest lion skull in was of 419 mm (South Africa) and the longest tiger skull was of 384 mm (India).

However, some people complain about the reliability of these records, despite the fact that we have a picture of Mr Ward measuring the zygomatic wide with calipers, which suggest that also the GSL was measured with the same method. At the end, it depends on the reader if he/she accepts of not the records from Rowland Wards.

If we complettelly discard the hunting records of any source and we only accept the scientific records, the longest lion skull (from the wild) was of 401 mm from Southern Africa (Roberts, 1951) and the longest tiger skull (from the wild) was of 383 mm from Manchuria (Mazák, 1981).

Please take in count that the skull of 402 mm from Ethiopia and measured by Mazák (1983-2013) came from a captive specimen, and the skull of 408 mm (another captive animal) reported by Dr Patterson in his book, was from South Africa, not East Africa. So the longest lion skull from the wild at East Africa was, in fact, of 380 mm, according with Allen and Hollister (both authors summarized in Roberst, 1951).

@"Bornean Tiger": Barbary lions and Indian lions are not only closelly related, they are the same subspecies. In few words, all the lions from India, Persia, Greece (?), Barbary and west Africa, are the same subspecies Panthera leo leo. There is a study from Dr Simon Black "The Challenges and Relevance of Exploring the Genetics of North Africa’s (Barbary Lion) and the Conservation of Putative Descendants in Captivity" from 2016 where he concludes, based in genetic, that the Indian lions are closer to the "pure" Barbary lions than the specimens housed in the Rabatt Zoo (previously believed to be the last "pure" Barbary population), and that may be used in the future for reintroduction in the north of Africa.

To finish this post, about the skull of the "record" Indian lion posted here, I doubt that it is of that size, we have learned that the skulls sold in the internet are terrible measured, normally the seller only put a tape along the skull (following the curve) which greatly exagerate its real size. For the moment, the longest Asiatic lion skull (taking in count Egypt, Greece, Israel, Persia and India) is a specimen of 365.8 mm from an Indian male (Prater, 1921).

I have contacted the owner of the skull cast of Lionzilla about the skull itself through a taxidermy forum, Lionzilla is not the Extra large lion skull from Bone Clones. She informed me that she measured Lionzilla skull with calipers without the lower jaw with overall score equal to 28 inches or 710 mm. Reply