ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)

[peter]

WaveRiders\ dateline='\'1425847080' Wrote: Peter
 
As far as I can recall I wrote I noticed lion skulls from Botswana tend to be slightly shorter, wider and more massive then those from Kruger and I did not compare lions from Zimbabwe and East Africa to Kruger lions. 

REGARDING YOUR POST 

You are right. You compared Botswana lion skulls with Kruger lion skulls. I used your remark and changed Botswana for Zimbabwe and East Africa. It wasn't a result of a slop, but an attempt to widen the scope for a slightly different purpose. I assumed the intention would be clear, but I apparently didn't succeed. As you insist on a correction, an apology is coming your way.

What was intended when I used your remark on Kruger and Botswana lion skulls?

Amur tigers and Kruger lions compare to an extent. Both inhabit remote regions and both, at the level of averages, seem to be a bit longer and taller than most others of their species. They also have slightly longer skulls. In (relative) robustness, however, they seem to lack a bit. Both Zimbabwe lions and East African lions could be absolutely or relatively more massive than Kruger lions. Same for Indian tigers compared to those in Russia. For some reason, lions and tigers inhabiting remote regions seem to have offered robustness for length.       

In another post (the one on the scientific community, I mean), Kruger lion skulls also featured. That post, to use your words, had some 'allegations' regarding a number of tables and biologists. You responded, but I didn't react so far. Maybe you mixed both posts in which Kruger lions featured? Anyhow. I hope all problems are now solved.  

ABOUT THE FORUM 

As for the unfriendly atmosphere between you and Guate. I assume the residues of arsenic I noticed in your post (see the quote above) were a result of it. Perhaps you blame Sanjay and yours truly for not interfering and perhaps you, like Guate, are unable to control those emotions known to appear just before the large guns are cleaned for use. I will address the problems out in the open, but you have to realize action and reaction usually are closely related. Here's what I have to say on our forum and the things I saw. 

The forum first. On a forum, members communicate about things they are interested in. Our forum is about animals in general and terrestrial predators in particular. Before joining the forum, potential members have to read the rules. The rules are very simple in that our forum is about respect. Respect for the rules of engagement, respect for information and, last but not least, respect for members. On this forum, members communicate on equal terms. The forum is our way to contribute to a world quickly disappearing in front of our eyes.

Every forum has different types of posters. Some post videos and news reports, whereas others post on rescue centres and zoos. Most animal forums also have a few members interested in research. They often concentrate on issues not addressed by biologists. One of the 'hot' issues is size. Some members are so interested, they decided to collect data themselves. A few of these post the results of their quest. Although it may seem different to some, it isn't about 12-footers in the end. It's about exploring a lost world.

It's also about interesting and original long posts without copyright and that sort of thing. The reason is posts of this nature are interesting for search machines like Baidu and Google. We need the airplay, because it will attract new members and new readers. It will also enhance the number of views. Forums attracting readers are interesting for those who want to sell their products at some stage. We need the money to maintain the forum and pay the bills. Although it is a business like most others, a forum like this one really is about things often disregarded in today's world. Passion and the quest for good information are way more important than anything else.           

Some of us, as you probably noticed, are involved in the long post department. In most long posts, general remarks often dominate. Specifics do not always count and mistakes will not be held against you. The reason is it is about the atmosphere that is intended. Atmosphere and opinion usually are closely related and people know. 

If a long post, however, is about specifics and contains remarks directed at members who take pride in their work, problems can be expected, especially when the facts needed to support the remarks made have been exchanged for something that could be mistaken for elusiveness or arrogance. This message was conveyed to you more than once and in a friendly way. For some reason, it had no effect.   

I can understand why one would want to refrain from sources, but you have to admit it could result in distrust, a lack of understanding, inequal terms and an unfriendly atmosphere. If that happens, those involved in the scrap bound to follow can't be accused of a bad attitude. The one at the receiving end, I think, can't expect the owner(s) or moderators of a forum to support a member who, in spite of his obvious qualities, refuses to give up his rifle. On a forum, members communicate on equal terms. Out in the open, at all times. No snipers allowed.

Your posts are interesting and it is clear you invested time in things we are interested in. Knowledge is an assett, but you have to be prepared to share to an extent. If all members are prepared to share information, a productive debate will be the usual result. If you, however, want to participate from a hide saying you lost your clothes, chances are those dressed for the event because it was a condition to participate in the first place will close the door sooner or later.  

If I agree to join a band to play guitar while fully clothed, they will get clothes and a guitar. If I sell my guitar just before the gig and turn up without clothes and a bass, the agreements made were ignored. The first one telling me about it would be the one playing bass. Same with shopping. If I need a corkscrew, I won't visit a butcher. Reputations also don't count. If I enter a shop without money and demand a loaf of bread because my name is Peter, the one posting on a forum, chances are I'll leave with a bucket round my neck. If you join a community, rules have to be respected. If you demand a special seat for some reason, members will protest.          

So far, I've supported you. I don't need to see your data, because everything needed to get to statements is there. But others might have a different opinion, especially those you addressed. You can't blame them for responding when pride is at stake, as you admitted yourself. If you are able to see through the somewhat stinging remarks words in Guate's last post, you will probably conclude the message conveyed is similar to the one in this post. I propose to read this post again and let the message sink in. I you agree, than act accordingly. Remember the forum isn't about us, but about animals. The aim is to learn a bit about their world and offer them a voice. Reply