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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)

Taiwan Betty Offline
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( This post was last modified: 02-08-2018, 12:46 PM by Betty )

(02-08-2018, 10:24 AM)peter Wrote: BETTY

Thanks for the clarification. I assume the measurement was taken 'over curves'. I'll use the information for the table on Panthera tigris amoyensis. It was a male tiger of 192,5 kg. (424 pounds) shot in 1965. In which Province is Changde Hefu? 

a - The Duisburg Zoo tiger

When I posted the table with information about the standing height of captive tigers in European zoos from V. Mazak's book 'Der Tiger', you asked for a bit more on the Duisburg Zoo tiger. This tiger is not in the table, but Mazak was informed about the size of this tiger by the director of the Duisburg Zoo Dr. W. Gewalt in a letter.

I decided to scan the page. It's about the paragraph in red directly below the table:


*This image is copyright of its original author
  

It's in German. Here's a translation of the sentence you're interested in:

" ... This animal (Mazak is referring to the male tiger 'Amur' from the Duisburg Zoo), born in the Rotterdam Zoo (in The Netherlands) in 1965 ..., stood 110 cm. at the shoulder at age 5,5 (sic!) (Zoo director Dr. W. Gewalt, in litt. 8.12.1970) ... ". 

In the same sentence, Mazak added that his mother had been captured in the Ussuri regio. Both parents of his father had been captured in the same region as well. As the Duisburg Zoo tiger was born in 1965, it's very likely that his mother had been captured in the late fifties of the last century. 

Here's one more photograph of this exceptional male. The other tiger, by the way, is an adult female:


*This image is copyright of its original author
 

b - The Sungari River tiger

In 1965, at age 5, the Duisburg Zoo tiger was 320 cm. in total length 'between pegs' and estimated at 280-300 kg. 

I've read reports about wild male Amur tigers of similar size, but all of them were dismissed as 'unreliable' by a number of biologists going over all reports about a decade ago. One of the few records considered as 'reliable' was from Baikov. The 560-pound tiger he shot near the Korean border in 1911 still tops the official table. Here he is:


*This image is copyright of its original author
  

Most of the other records of Baikov, however, were dismissed.

The Jankowski's also hunted Amur tigers. In 1943, they and a Korean professional hunter shot a very large male tiger near the Sungari River in Manchuria. In one of his letters to V. Mazak, W.J. Jankowski, one of the sons of J.M. Jankowski, wrote that this male, at 11.6 in total length (most probably measured 'over curves'), was estimated at " ... not less than 300 kg. ... " ('Der Tiger', pp. 189). A few days before he was shot, the tiger had killed and eaten a very large male brown bear, of which they found a leg and the head.

Not so long ago, poster Warsaw (Carnivora Forum) said that a book written by one of the Jankowski's had been published. The Sungari River tiger was mentioned. According to Warsaw, the length mentioned by V. Mazak (11.6 'over curves') was the length of the skin. He added that he found nothing about the bear allegedly killed by the tiger.

Some posters informed me about the post of Warsaw and asked for my opinion. All I can say is that V. Mazak, regarding the Sungari River tiger, referred to J.M. Jankowski's letters. He also published a photograph of the tiger in his book: 


*This image is copyright of its original author

   
Watch the part at the right bottom. It says: photograph taken by W.J. Jankowski. This is the same W.J. Jankowski who featured in Mazak's book. The reason he featured? He and V. Mazak corresponded. Mazak, that is to say, got letters from W.J. Jankowski. Not one letter, but letters. Watch the s at the end of letter. 

Mazak was much impressed by the information provided by W.J. Jankowski. On page 185, he wrote he considered him as an authority on Amur tigers. At page 186, Mazak said that W.J. Jankowski, more than once, wrote that the Sungari River tiger was the largest Amur tiger he, his brothers and his father, ever saw. On page 189, quoting from the same letter of W.J. Jankowski of May 8, 1970, Mazak added that they had to cut the tiger in 9 pieces to get him out of the forest. As each of the 9 men carried a piece of 30-40 kg., W.J. Jankowski thought the tiger was not less than 300 kg. The additional information about the very large male brown bear killed by the tiger is in the same letter.

Many, many years after the event, according to Warsaw, one of the Jankowski's apparently published a book with a bit of information about the Sungari River tiger. The tiger was shot in July 1943. W.J. Jankowski wrote V. Mazak in 1970. And some years ago he apparently published a book, which was immediately used to disqualify the information provided by V. Mazak. And now they want my opinion. Right.

Here it is.

I never met V. Mazak (he died well before his time), but I met a man he considered as a friend: Dr. P. van Bree (see pp. 217). Based on what he told me, it's clear he liked V. Mazak a lot. That should tell you something, as he had a different opinion about many others. In his experience, V. Mazak was productive and able in all departments. To him, there was no question that V. Mazak was honest and accurate. When he made a mistake, he admitted he did. In public. In the third edition of his book, on page 183, he wrote he had been misled by a few hunters about the size of Amur tigers. 

Did Dr. P. van Bree see the letters of W.J. Jankowski? Yes. Did he see the photograph in this post? Yes. Is the addition on the photograph (photograph W.J. Jankowski) true? Yes. Dr. P. van Bree saw the photograph. Did Mazak have contacts in the former Sovjet-Union? Yes. Did he speak Russian? Yes. Was W.J. Jankowski there when the Sungari River tiger was shot in 1943? Yes. Was he the one who took the photograph? Yes. Was he one of those who carried a piece of the tiger out of the forest? Yes. Was he the one who corresponded with V. Mazak? Yes. Was he the one who informed Mzak about the details? Yes. Did he add the tiger had killed a eaten a very large male brown bear a few days before he was shot? Yes. Was the Sungari River tiger exceptional? Most definitely. Did he compare to the Duisburg Zoo tiger? Yes. If anything, the Sungari River tiger is a bit more robust. Watch the skull in particular.   

So what about the book published by one of the Jankowski's some years ago?

I never saw it. Aa far as I know, it wasn't translated. 

The tiger was shot in July 1943, when W.J. Jankowski still was a young man. In 1970, 27 years later, he informed V. Mazak about the tiger. Based on the information in Mazak's book, he had not forgotten about the tiger. In his letters, he more than once underlined that the Sungari River tiger was one of a kind. He also remembered a lot of details. Almost 70 years after the event, he published a book. According to Warsaw, not the tiger, but the skin was measured. There was no information about a bear he allegedly killed.

What to say? W.J. Jankowski was an old man when his book was published. Maybe he forgot about a few things. Maybe he sent everything he had about the tiger to V. Mazak in 1970. Maybe the focus was on something else in the book he published. I don't know. 

I do know that V. Mazak was respected by many. More than anything else, V. Mazak's book made a lasting impression. After I read it a number of times, I acted. I measured lions, tigers and skulls. I talked to people who know a lot more than I do. I read what was available. I know V. Mazak mixed weights of captive and wild Amur tigers. I also know he was a bit tentative at times. Finally, it's clear he was guided by fascination. In the end, however, the conclusion is that he was right in nearly all departments. 

Books written by those who have firsthand experience top my list. As far as I know, V. Mazak never saw a wild tiger. In spite of that, he wrote a book that compares in all respects. Remarkable.

Changde Hefu is located in Changde city of Hunan Province.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - Betty - 02-08-2018, 12:45 PM
Demythologizing T16 - tigerluver - 04-12-2020, 11:44 AM
Tiger Data Bank - Apollo - 07-28-2014, 09:54 PM
RE: Tiger Data Bank - Apollo - 07-28-2014, 10:02 PM
RE: Tiger Data Bank - Apollo - 07-29-2014, 12:56 AM
RE: Tiger Data Bank - peter - 07-29-2014, 07:05 AM
Tiger recycling bin - Roflcopters - 09-04-2014, 01:36 AM
RE: Tiger recycling bin - Pckts - 09-04-2014, 02:22 AM
RE: Tiger recycling bin - Roflcopters - 09-05-2014, 01:01 AM
RE: Tiger Data Bank - Apollo - 11-15-2014, 10:07 PM
RE: Tiger Data Bank - Apollo - 11-15-2014, 10:57 PM
RE: Tiger Data Bank - Apollo - 11-15-2014, 11:33 PM
RE: Tiger Data Bank - Apollo - 02-19-2015, 11:25 PM
RE: Tiger Data Bank - GuateGojira - 02-23-2015, 11:36 AM
Status of tigers in India - Shardul - 12-20-2015, 03:23 PM
RE: Tiger Directory - Diamir2 - 10-03-2016, 04:27 AM
RE: Tiger Directory - peter - 10-03-2016, 06:22 AM
Genetics of all tiger subspecies - parvez - 07-15-2017, 01:08 PM
RE: Tiger Predation - peter - 11-11-2017, 08:08 AM
RE: Man-eaters - Wolverine - 12-03-2017, 11:30 AM
RE: Man-eaters - peter - 12-04-2017, 09:44 AM
RE: Tigers of Central India - Wolverine - 04-13-2018, 01:17 AM
RE: Tigers of Central India - qstxyz - 04-13-2018, 08:34 PM
RE: Size comparisons - peter - 07-16-2019, 05:28 AM
RE: Amur Tigers - peter - 05-20-2021, 07:13 AM
RE: Amur Tigers - Nyers - 05-21-2021, 08:02 PM
RE: Amur Tigers - peter - 05-22-2021, 08:09 AM
RE: Amur Tigers - GuateGojira - 04-06-2022, 12:59 AM
RE: Amur Tigers - tigerluver - 04-06-2022, 01:08 AM
RE: Amur Tigers - tigerluver - 04-06-2022, 09:08 AM
RE: Amur Tigers - tigerluver - 04-06-2022, 11:30 PM
RE: Amur Tigers - peter - 04-08-2022, 07:27 AM



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