There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
06-10-2015, 02:41 AM( This post was last modified: 10-02-2015, 01:58 AM by peter )
brotherbear\ dateline='\'1433876570' Wrote: The bear actually appears smaller than the tiger, even though he isn't, because of his compact build. According to the measurements, the bear is slightly longer, but here again, not really so. The bear has a longer neck and a longer muzzle than the tiger. Also, the shoulder hump adds to the bear's shouder height. All-in-all, I would consider these two at roughly size parity. Of course, after many on-line conflicts, I realize that there are many interpretations of size parity. Still in all, I consider these two predators living within the same general location as among the most interesting animal relatuionships in the natural world. And yet so little is known.
Male Amur tigers average 195 cm. in head and body length in a straight line. Male Ussuri brown bears average 196 cm. 'over contours'. Same as Yellowstone male brown bears. As the Yellowstone male brown bears were 32 cm. shorter in a straight line (164 cm.), one has to assume the Ussuri's would be about similar if they would have been measured in a straight line. Male Amur tigers, therefore, are 31 cm. longer in head and body length in a straight line. Seen from this perspective, one could say Guate was quite generous to the Ussuri male brown bear in the comparison.
Guate was generous in other respects as well. Kucherenko wrote Ussuri male brown bears average 264 kg. (583 pounds) and Goodrich said they average about 270 kg. (596 pounds), but 2 adult males recently weighed in the Russian Far East were 180 and 235 kg., or 207,50 kg. (458 pounds) on average. Quite a difference, that is. Same for females. Kucherenko wrote they averaged 189 kg. (418 pounds), but recent information points towards 140-150 kg. (320 pounds).
As I don't know what to make of it, I propose to take 543 pounds (246,30 kg.) for now and assume it's a year-round average. In females, the average would be 369 pounds, say 360-380 pounds for now.
All in all, one could perhaps say healthy male Amur tigers, at 190-200 cm. in head and body length measured in a straight line, average 420-440 pounds, whereas male Ussuri bears, at 160-170 cm. in head and body length measured in a straight line, could average 490-520 pounds. Male Ussuri brown bears, therefore, are both absolutely and relatively more robust. They also produce more exceptional specimens. When both animals would be seen close to each other, the picture that emerges could be close to the one Guate produced.
Here's the table on Yellowstone brown bears I referred to above. It is about the average difference between 'length' and 'contour length' in 55 adult males (older than 5 years of age) at the bottom of the table. Also take notice of the average chest girth, height and neck girth:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Here's a photograph of a male brown bear of 275 kg. (607 pounds) who reached 223 cm. on his hind legs. It was posted a long time ago by Warsaw. The bear, if I remember correctly, was exhibited somewhere in Canada, but I'm not sure:
*This image is copyright of its original author
This is the famous picture of the diorama again. The more I see it, the better I like it. Based on what we know, it could be quite accurate. Both are about similar in length (tiger a bit longer), but the bear is more robust and heavier:
*This image is copyright of its original author
The scenario in the photograph (male against male) is an unlikely one. Bart Schleyer, based on what he saw in the snow, said that tigers who hunt bears (most often older males) usually have about a 100 pounds on them. This advantage allows for a quick kill (a bite to the base of the neck). In at least two cases, the ambush developed into a 20-minute fight. The most likely reason was size in that both bears involved, adult females, were (visually) estimated at 150-200 kg. The male tigers who fought them probably were about similar in weight. In both cases the brown bear was killed, but the tigers were injured.
Some Ussuri male bears follow tigers in order to rob or even hunt them. These 'satellite bears' target immatures and females with cubs. In Heptner and Sludskij (German translation of 1980), a number of incidents between large male brown bears and tigresses or adolescent tigers were described. The conclusion is male brown bears, like male tigers, prefer to attack smaller animals.
There's no question males clash at times, especially in years with crop failure and mass migration of prey animals (deer and wild boars), but all-out fights seem to be singular events.